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Is rapid return the toddler equivalent of controlled crying?

38 replies

Pinkjenny · 22/10/2009 09:30

I am thoroughly depressed after perusing my posting history and looking at the number of times I have promised myself I will resolve dd's sleep ishoos.

She is now 2.5yo, I am 30 weeks pg, and the time has been forced upon me come for her to enter the previously unchartered territory of her Own. Bedroom.

I have decorated it for her, finishing touches to be done this weekend, and then Sunday is the night it's all going to happen. However, similarly with all the times I've asked before and controlled crying was offered to me as the best option, now everyone is suggesting rapid return. Surely rapid return is as stressful as controlled crying?

I'm not going to get through this without lots of tears, am I? Mine, probably.

I am very, very sad, actually that I won't be able to see her little face snuggled up next to me on my pillow, and that no one will ask me for a cuddle at 3am.

Tell me I have to do this. Tell me it's best for everyone.

OP posts:
Are your children’s vaccines up to date?
thefortbuilder · 22/10/2009 09:36

lots of support from over here - we have one dreadful sleeper who is now 3.5 and is much better, but going through the scared of the dark phase.

Just think of how much better quality sleep you will get without a wriggling toddler in bed next to you - no matter how nice it is seeing her snuggled up to you

LynetteScavo · 22/10/2009 09:38

Well, I would never do controlled crying, but, did do rapid return with both my boys.

DS1 how is very wilfull, determined and needs lots of hugs/reausrance. It took 6 weeks to get him to go though the night, and TBH it was hell, but we got there eventually.

DS1 is a totally different character and it took two nights.

Good luck!

Pinkjenny · 22/10/2009 09:38

Thanks flick. I am seriously wobbling. But it's hard for me to conceive of a 2.5yo and a newborn in the bedroom with us, to be honest.

Dh harps on and on and on and on about it, I am ready to slap him.

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notyummy · 22/10/2009 09:40

It is best for you - you can still have her little face snuggled to you in the morning when she comes in for cuddles.

Rapid return may be stressful, but at 2.5, I think most toddler can understand what is happening much more than a baby. As long as it is done gently, consistently then I see no harm in it. Its no different to putting a child in a room for time out.

It may be difficult, but it will benefit you all in the end. TBH, I think you've done really well to manage with a wriggly toddler asking you for cuddles at 3am up until now. I need my sleep!

StealthPolarBear · 22/10/2009 09:45

i think we're doing this at the moment with DS, didnt know it hade a name - he wakes frequently seems distressed so we comfort him, but when we go to leave he tantrums and follows us.
I pick him up & take him back, more reassurances, some begging & pleading, a bit of angry voice
will keep an eye on this thread for advice/ideas.
he seems obsessed with poo - other day he woke telling me he'd pooed (he hadnt), last night he kept telling me his sis had pooed (shes in my room!)

feetheart · 22/10/2009 09:45

I would say that you both need to be on board and have a plan of action, ie taking turns, etc.
Did Rapid Return with DD at about 2. Took 2.5 hrs the first night and DH and I did 1/2 hr shifts and had a BIG glass of wine at the end. 2 hrs the next few nights and a token protest the night after that.
Hopefully it will be as quick for you (looks like we were lucky) but it is HARD WORK and makes you feel terrible at the time but it does work and bedtime is SO much easier afterwards.

If its any consolation we didn't have to do it at all with DS.

Good Luck

notyummy · 22/10/2009 09:47

Other top tip is to make sure they have PLENTY of physical exercise during the day so they are physically tired and looking foward to bed.

Pinkjenny · 22/10/2009 09:48

I am shitting myself. My history dealing with the sleep is not a good one. Dh is convinced I'll just end up in there with her.

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MrsBadger · 22/10/2009 09:50

you need either Jay Gordon or the NCSS

Pinkjenny · 22/10/2009 09:52

I have both of them. And every other book ever written on the subject. NCSS makes my brain hurt. It's so complicated. Jay Gordon and I do not get along.

I may revisit the NCSS. Can you tell my heart isn't really in this? There's the rub.

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StealthPolarBear · 22/10/2009 09:53

would she be up for out and out bribery?
DS got 2 choc buttons the other morning when he hadn't woken us?
Star chart? (thats our next step)

motheringfrights · 22/10/2009 09:55

Get DH to do it. Agree on a plan, then step out, even go out, and let him implement it.

notyummy · 22/10/2009 09:57

I know it is hard, but seriously, do you want to be trying to do this with a newborn to feed as well?? Or having her still in bed with and being woken up by the newborn, so you have a toddler and a newborn up in the middle of the night.

Strap on your big cojones and assume the big boss stance.....

MrsBadger · 22/10/2009 09:59

oh yes, make DH read NCSS and devise the plan

what did you not liek abotu Jay Gordon? with extensive personalisation 'changing the sleep pattern in the family bed' got dd off nigth feeds, into her own room and (mostly) sleeping trhough...

Pinkjenny · 22/10/2009 10:02

He seemed a bit, well harsh for me. I am clearly completely soft when it comes to the whole thing.

Notyummy - I should have that tattooed on my forehead.

SPB - she is generally susceptible to bribery, but not in the middle of the night, when all logic disappears.

motheringfrights - I just feel like it's something that I've created, and so that I need to resolve.

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Pinkjenny · 22/10/2009 10:03

Apologies, MrsBadger, I'm confusing him with Marc Weissbluth. The only literature I've read by Jay Gordon has included bfing, which I am not doing.

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StealthPolarBear · 22/10/2009 10:04

no I suppose not, DS too. We had the conversation the night before and I really hoped it had sunk in because the first thing he said in the morning was "I stay in my bed". But it's got worse since...

Pinkjenny · 22/10/2009 10:11

The way I am currently intending to approach it (with a heavy heart) is to give her as much reassurance and cuddles as she wants, but make it clear that she is not coming into our bed.

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browniedropout · 22/10/2009 10:20

Complete realist here. DD1 did not sleep from 8pm until 6am (which is what I think of as a whole night of sleep) until he was 2.5 yrs and DD1 was with us, bringing all the disturbed nights that a new baby brings. With hindsight I wish I had faced up to a week of toughing it out, whatever it felt like from my end. Rapid return and these other methods work. If you were a smoker and you failed to give up the first time - you would not say oh that's it I'm never trying again.

Set your mind to it. Give yourself a specific time scale and tell DP and dearest friends etc from Friday until Tuesday I am going to do rapid return. 4 nights might be enough. Babies need feeding through the night - children and adults don't. Find a phrase in your head that you are comfortable with if not 'you have to be cruel to be kind' try 'I'm teaching my child good sleeping habits'. A good sleeping habit is one of the best skills a child can develop.
Use the love you have for your child to be strong enough to be firm. So if it dosen't work this time, give your self a one night off - allow the 3am cuddle and then start again but the sooner you find strength to be firm the better for you DP and DC. I really know - in the end it was the tiredness from getting up to DD1 and DS1 that tipped me into PND. DON'T give up.

Pinkjenny · 22/10/2009 10:26

That's a great post, browniedropout. I would not be doing this unless I felt like there was just no other option. I know what will happen if I don't, the baby will wake up, dd will wake up and get all excited, demand the TV on, be awake for hours, and then be a total grump the next day.

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notyummy · 22/10/2009 10:29

Well said brownie. Voice of experience and a useful warning....

StealthPolarBear · 22/10/2009 10:36

pinkjenny, that's the situation I'm in with a 2yo and a newborn - not quite as bad as DS doesn't typically sleep with us, but still...

MrsBadger · 22/10/2009 11:42

I found the Jay Gordon one was very adaptable - the article is really abotu stopping night feeds with them still in your bed but the techniques could equally well be used for getting them in their own bed regardless of feeding.
It is less wishy-washy choose-your-own-adventure than NCSS which I appreciated, but is still soft hippy cuddly responsive to the child's needs
have a read

Pinkjenny · 22/10/2009 11:49

Thanks MrsBadger, I will have a good read and try to formulate some kind of loose plan of action.

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ShowOfHands · 22/10/2009 12:43

Hey lovely.

First and foremeost, is it like controlled crying? Absolutely not. No it isn't. You know me, I don't like controlled crying. I think it works because the baby learns that there's no point crying as opposed to them learning a complicated lesson beyond their grasp about sleep. I think in L's most formative years you did what I believe to be one of the most important things you can do and that was to teach her that when she needs you and calls out to you, you respond. She is a bright, well adjusted and secure little girl. You have done marvellously in the face of your own worries about your parenting and with an absolute lack of support and well meaning advice from every quarter (this one included).

Can I reassure you that the first time M slept in her own bed, both DH and I lay in bed with tears running down our faces. She's part of us, we adored having her right there with us, snuffling and shuffling and wrapping her arms round our necks at 3am. But the time came. Was it difficult? Yes Was it the right thing to do? Absolutely. Do we still have cuddles in bed? God, yes. Does she sometimes come in with us in the middle of the night? Yup. Is she afraid of her bed? No. Does she hate me? No. Has it hurt her? No.

It might not be about rapid return. We didn't have to do it though I think I probably would have been prepared to do it had the need arisen. The transition was fine. She understood, we changed the routine and stuck to it firmly. Bath, upstairs, put her doll to bed, choose 3 books and the books only get read while she is in bed and lying down. She moved or sat up, the story stopped. Books over, nightlight on, main light off. Happy, gentle, smiley bedtime, no cross faces, no worry.

Let me be utterly blunt. You cannot and will not do this on your own. DH must help you. He cannot witter on in your ear about it and then refuse to take responsibility and he can bugger off with his 'you created this situation', that doesn't matter because yes maybe you did take her into your bed but was anybody helping you at the time? Supporting you to find another way? Nope.

You must want to do it and you must want it to work. You have to accept that it will be sad for you but it doesn't have to be sad for her and it won't damage her, she won't hate you. I actually don't think having a newborn and a toddler in your bed is an insurmountable thing when everybody is happy. But I suspect that it would create tension on top of tension for you. You'll panic about it more and more, DH won't accept it and because you will have a newborn and he will absolutely need to be in with you, you don't want to crack and be moving L in haste and anger because nights are becoming unbearable. You can make this a lovely, kind transition for her and not all bound up in the change of a new baby turning up.

And not having somebody to cuddle at 3am. Oh lovely . You need to want to cuddle DH. Have that lovely time as husband and wife before your gorgeous girl crashes in, well slept and demanding huge cuddles. I'm worried that you don't want that? I'm worried that DH isn't doing enough to reassure you that he wants that.

It feels impossible to you now doesn't it? Oh it isn't. It's so simple. You love her, she loves you, she's mere feet away from you all night and it's done. That could be you in mere days. You just have to want it. Don't decide that it's going to be terrible before you start it. Tell yourself how smoothly it could go, smile and embrace it and if it gets tough then fall back on a plan.

I've got to go out now, sorry. I'll be back later to waffle more.

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