I so don't want to do controlled crying but could it be my only answer?

[pookamoo]

DD is 10.5 months old. I go back to work at the start of December so we are under huge pressure to get this sorted. Forgive me if this is a really long post but I will try to put everything down.

She had colic and for the first 5 months of her life was basically carried around by me or DH. We spent hours and hours pacing with her, or with her in the sling, and she has never been a fantastic sleeper. She very often used to go 24 hours with about 1 hour's sleep.

Things got a little better eventually the colic stopped and we were cosleeping, I was bfing her to sleep. Eventually she started to nap in the day, and now she will often have 2 naps in the daytime, usually about half an hour at about 9.30 or 10am, and then another in the afternoon, about 2 ish, perhaps 45 minutes to an hour.

For a time she would go down to sleep about 7.30, sleep until 11, wake at 1am and 4am and then up for the day at 7. I still bf her to sleep. DH was able to cuddle her down to sleep, as long as I had given her a long bf beforehand.

Now, only I can get her to sleep, she will only fall asleep bfing and sometimes it takes 2 hours. Last night she was up 9 times between midnight and 7am. It took 3 hours to get her to sleep (7 til 10) and even then she woke a couple of times between 10 and midnight. She does not get drowsy. It's like she's on something. She has little bags under her eyes, which are red rimmed in her little pale face, although she is a very happy baby, she is only getting about 7 hours sleep over 24 hours at a time. I get less.

I can't go on like this. Right now DH is holding her while she howls. Today, after her marathon stint last night, she had about an hour's sleep 3.30 til 4. Bedtime 7pm, usual routine, including bf, but she wouldn't go to sleep and we are both crying!

I am so close to trying CC, although it goes against all my instincts. I just know that she needs to learn to settle herself to sleep, or at the very least, to go to sleep with someone other than me. She doesn't get drowsy, she is just so perpetually overtired she just goes into meltdown. I don't think it would even work for her, as she winds up not down.

I have tried NCSS.
I have tried sshhh pat (me shhh patting her as she crawls around the cot wailing did NOT help!)

can anybody help me???????

narmada that was the same for us.

My dd who had undiagnosed silent refux and wasn't put on meds until 6 months which did improved things hugely but she would wake up screaming in the night due to trapped wind etc regularly for another year or so. The poor sleep thing etc was all so well ingrained.

I took her to cranial osteopath in the end and I so wish I'd taken her much sooner......

Pookamoo - bravo to Granny's arrival! Apparently I didn't sleep all night until I was 6 and my DH was 3 so I'm resigned to nights of getting up. Maybe your little one is just copying you?

I found when DD started eating solids she drastically cut down on her milk and we had a really bad 2 weeks where she was up every 1-2 hours. I was dead by the end of it. Then a very wise friend, who also happens to be a paediatrician, suggested reducing the amount of food so that DD increased her milk intake. That very first night she slept better. Ok, she still woke up but only twice from going to bed at 7pm to getting up at 7am.

In the meantime get Granny to take over and you go and sleep!

Does she sleep in the pram/pushchair? DS would only be fed to sleep and now if he is overtired/decides he is not tired (even though I know he is) he will feed but then crawl off excitedly and not go to sleep. I don't like controlled crying so won't do that. I started off pushing him in the pushchair for naps and the first bedtime sleep, had to take him for a walk at first, then progressed to rocking the pram in the house, now I can just put him in there and he sleeps by himself, no struggling, no crying, quite happily.

Now I have the problem that I think it is the harness which makes him relax because he knows he can't get up and play - so he still won't go in the cot, just stands up at the sides and cries. (I can't really blame him as he's used to co-sleeping with us - it was DP's suggestion) I am thinking of trying putting his footmuff from his pushchair into a moses basket or something (maybe a crib?) - he is 1 now so probably too big for a MB but something to make it more enclosed I think would help.

BertieBotts what about a sleep/gro bag?

Try gradual retreat, worked for my DD for a few months as she was fed to sleep, did it at 6 months by 7 months she slept through. I had to get DH to do it, as you have to be the room while they cry and I just couldn't do it. However, at a year old we did CC as she regresed, it worked in 3 nights and never had to do it again. I NEVER let her cry for more than 30 mins, checked 5,10,15 mins if she was still crying I would feed her to sleep. I did it at night first, then daytime naps.

I now have a 7 month old DS who won't sleep more than 4/5 hour stretches - but he is not fed to sleep so gradual retreat not really appropriate so I'm stuck with sleep deprivation too plus looking after a toddler all day.

You all need to get some sleep before you start work - co-sleeping/living with it will not work for you. It WILL involve crying but crying when you or your partner are in the room is different than leaving the room.

Do you drink coffee / tea / coke etc?

My 2 have both been vile, terrible, screaming, overtired, non-sleeping babies when I drink caffeine. When I completely cut caffeine from my diet they are reasonable sleepers.

hi there
Agree about perhaps underestimating how hard CC can be. I didn't MEAN to do it but after 8 months of torture no more than 4 hrs sleep every night i was at my wits end. I too ended up doing it when DH was out (knew he wouldn't be able to cope either) and here's my stats:
1st night: 20 mins crying (i rocked with a glass of wine outside the door)
2nd night: 5 mins crying (DH did the rocking this time - going "are you SURE about this??" me: "NO don't start asking me that?!!")
3rd night: 2 mins crying
4th night: NOTHING.
And now our 20month old sleeps from 6.30 till 8.00 the next morning, with few disturbances unless it's something serious.

What can you lose by trying it? Give it 5 days. It might be horrible the first couple of nights. If it's not working by the end of the 5th night, then see how you feel.

My other suggestion - is i think she sounds really overtired - DD's naps in the daytime are much more than 45 minutes - and what's interesting is they INCREASED once she started sleeping properly at night.

Good point ma. I have found that too actually though it is more chocolate withdrawal that gets ds (and me!)

hi pook i also tried cc when my ds turned 17 months. every other technique failed so i resigned to it. mine was exactly the same as bibbitybobbitycat has describes. after day 3 it was over. good luck in whatever you decide to do

I used the cc method with both of my daughters. It was the last resort with dd1, but I found it to be the only thing that worked.

AFAIK, no one actually likes doing cc, there are v few people out there who actually like to listen to their babies cry, but it does work, and it works quickly, and it does mean you can get on with the rest of your life in a reasonably un-sleep deprived way.

But what about the baby that cries for HOURS? Do you just keep going in every 5/10 minutes all night?

For the record, she is still up grizzling in her bed now, having started bedtime at 6pm.

Today's sum total of naps are 45 minutes all together. That includes two car rides. She wouldn't feed for more than a few minutes at a time today so I couldn't even feed her to sleep (she must have been starving by bedtime because she was too tired to eat her solids.

I accept that she is overtired, this just seems to be a vicious circle.

In your position I think I would see the doctor/health visitor to check there's no medical problems, especially as you say she's always slept badly.

Then cc does seem to be the way to go she needs to sleep by herself.

The other things you could try are giving a bottle of hungry baby formula in the evening( I know you you are bf but you won't be able to exclusively after you go back to work)

I hope both you your dh and your baby are soon getting good nights sleep

You could be describing DS at that age. He's 15 months now and much better, doesn't fight naps any more, goes to sleep easily and sleeps through most nights. He's still bf to sleep when I'm there or has a bottle when I'm not, he just grew out of his rubbish sleeping patterns.
The 2 things that helped greatly were his teething being largely over and him being old enough not to be frightened by being by himself which seemed to be an issue for him from being tiny.
It's horrible having to go to work on no sleep- I went back when DS was 6mo and I've no idea how I survived because he was still waking for 5 plus feeds a night then!
Anyway, I couldn't face CC, just didn't feel right for us. I have friends who've done CC or CIO and had great success but he was such a sensitive soul....not that I would never do it, just not with this child.
It's so hard being exhausted all the time- DS's new trick is sleeping through from 6.30pm but....wakes up at 5am ready to play!
I think that DH taking over a couple of bedtimes a week helped DS's sleep, as did night weaning him which I did about 6 weeks ago. It was really easy so I knew he was ready for it. If he'd put up a massive fight I wouldn't have persevered.
If you can't face CC, maybe it's not for you. Try working on the naps first as suggested above and concentrate on getting yourself as much rest as possible. As DD will about 12mo by the time you go back, her sleep may well naturally have started to improve.
Sorry if that's bugger all help!
Good luck.

I did cc with both of mine,

took 2 nights both times, the most was for 25 mins, then 10 mins then nothing. (DS2 was even less) aged about 6 months

I had to do it twice with DS2 as he got ill pretty soon after I did and obviously i couldnt leave him then!

It made me so much a better parent as I am a mare with no sleep.

They are both incredibly confident, loving and attached little boys and I never regretted it.

ps I couldnt do shhing or patting, in fact if I was in the room they would be livid!

Have you tried calling your health visitor? Mine was really supportive and helpful with DD's sleep probs. I don't think she told me anything I didn't already know but she came around a couple of times a week at the start of the prob then once a week until I was totally happy with things. We made a plan together about how I was going manage things and then she helped me stick to it. I also think talking to an outsider about it helped as well.
Also have a friend who swears by the craniaal osteopathy.

Thanks Pinks,
I would be happy to give her a bottle at bedtime, but unfortunately she just chews the end of it and won't drink properly. I've been practising with a cup at teatime, but she only ever has a couple of sips, probably maximum 50mls.

For those of you who did CC, did you just time the crying from when the LO actually started to wail, or from the time you put them down til the time they fell asleep?

I mean, DD is burbling away to herself right now, I can hear her on the monitor, and every so often she has a little cry, then burbles again. So she's not wailing with all her might, but she's definitely not happy. DH is with her in her room. Again. Poor him.

She wouldn't feed to sleep tonight, so when she was pretty quiet I just popped her in her cot, said goodnight and went downstairs. She had a little grumble, then chatted to herself for a while, and since then has been mumbling and grumbling a bit, but not actually howling for more than a few seconds at a time [I take that back she is howling now].

argh she is soooooooo tired why won't she just give in !?

p.s. my mum is also an ex-Health Visitor and she says children can make or break habits in 4-7 days. So whenever I'm going through a rubbish time with something I always remind myself I've only got max 1 week of hell to change it, and it always makes it seem more bearable.

Juju would the hv actually come out at bedtime? I would love someone else to see this in action to give me some advice! I tried to explain it at the last weigh-in and they just told me to "do CC". I'm taking her to be weighed on Wednesday so will ask again.

DD had cranial osteopathy for her colic at about 6 weeks old.

Controlled Crying doesn't necessarily mean leaving her to cry alone - you could try sitting silently in her room with her but not getting her up.

Definitely implement a routine - I would stop bfing her to sleep though, so move it to earlier in the bed time routine.

Could you offer her a bottle of water if she wakes in the night, instead of a breastfeed?

If you can afford it, have you thought about getting a sleep consultant/night nanny in for a week to really sort the routine and sleeping, and give you tips for keeping it up.

hi there. your op makes me feel tired! I no idea how you are managing to cope with this and my instant response is just give CC a try cos if it works your life will be so different. I did it with ds and it was as others above describe, took about 3 nights and then we were sorted. It isn't great, of course it isn't but the results are worth it.

as for timings, IMO it's from when they are crying, so if you hear her ratcheting up the crying volume, go in and comfort, get her quiet and put her down, you only then start the timing from the point at which she starts yelling again (which may be the instant her bottom touches the mattress!). If you find eg 5 mins too tough an interval, then make it less, you can do 1 min crying, then up to 1.5mins, then 2mins if you prefer.

As soon as she has stopped crying and is calm, you put her back, say "night night" and leave the room, quickly and calmly. Repeat x100 if necessary on the first few nights. If you do it for an hour and give in then you have wasted an hour... just keep going. Have a book or magazine that you read while you're waiting for each interval, even in the middle of the night, makes the waiting easier to cope with.

It's hard isn't it?
Like Lankyalto, all that worked with my children was time.
We just did whatever we had to to get through. Tried various things and settled on whatever gave us all the optimum amount of sleep.
Usually taking turns, one going to bed early to get up through the night and the other going to bed later. Getting up during the night for an hour or 2 to ensure that when the child went back to bed, they slept rather than whinging for hours on and off/fighting with a screaming baby.
By around 3y most had settled down to a reliable night's sleep. Some sooner and 1 later.
Just bear in mind that it will pass. It's not forever.

Sitting in the room is what DH has been doing for the last few days, without much success - about 2 and a half hours each time, and not getting any shorter.

Today and yesterday she wouldn't bf to sleep at all - not at night or naps (hence no naps, she wouldn't even sleep in the car for more than 15 minutes!).

She won't take a bottle.

Sadly we can't afford a sleep consultant or night nanny, but we do have a good bedtime routine in place, it just doesn't make her drowsy.

They came out in the day to see me. I think it was more that they had the time to spend with me to talk about it. Our weigh-in clinic is always a bit hectic to have a proper discussion. Also worth discussing the pro's and con's of CC with them in a more relaxed setting.

"Sitting in the room is what DH has been doing for the last few days, without much success - about 2 and a half hours each time, and not getting any shorter."

Maybe having him in the room is too distracting for her then - I would try leaving the room. Is her room really dark? Maybe white noise could help?

Could you try bringing the bed time forward a bit so she's not too overtired to sleep?