14 week old getting hysterical when put to bed..

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Hi there

Just looking for a bit of advice please.

DS (14 weeks) has always been pretty good at night. Until he was about 8 weeks we kept him down with us until we went to bed, but after then we started putting him down in his moses basket upstairs about 7.30 (after a bath and feed). He would then sleep until 3-4am, have a quick feed (breast fed) and go back down very quickly until 6-7am.

About 4 weeks ago we decided to move him to his cot (in our room) as he was out growing the moses basket but he seems to have a lot more trouble settling in his cot than the basket. To start with he would thrash around for ages so I rolled up a sheet and put in a U shape round him to make him feel more secure and this seemed to work for a while.

Recently though he has started to cry hysterically when he is put down. Occassionally he will go straight down but most nights we are both up and down for half an hour to an hour soothing him before he will settle?. tonight it has taken over 2 hours to get him to sleep properly. I know it doesn?t sound that long but I just find it hard to watch him so upset, even though I?m pretty sure there is nothing (physically) wrong with him as he quietens soon if picked up and inbetween crying tonight occasionally smiled at me!

I don?t want to keep picking him up as I think he has/will soon cotton on, so have been trying to sooth him by shushing/stroking him but with limited success.

It just feels like we are going backwards a bit and I?m worried its something I am doing wrong/ not doing. I feel a bit guilty as I?ve never really read any of the sleep books so have no idea about CC or other techniques that might help him settle himself. To be honest I feel I have been winging it a bit so far.

I would really welcome any advice as to the best way to get him to sleep my poor little man getting himself in such a state.

Hmm, he really is sleeping for tiny amounts during the day. Does he nod after at the end of a bf? Do you put him down awake or does he fall asleep when bf'ing and then wake up when you put him down? Does the pram send him off? What about riding in a ring sling (not a Baby Bjorn type carrier) does that help him sleep?

DD2 had 20 minute cat naps during the day from very young. She slept for 4-5 hour chunks in the night, but during the day she would only nod off for half an hour tops until she was around 6 or 7 months old. She had reflux (due to cows milk intolerance) and of course DD1 was always around making some kind of noise, so I just out it down to those factors, and carried her around in the sling until she was big enough to sit in a bumbo, then she would be carried or sit in that and bash a baby-gym.

How does your average day go? Do you take him out most days, even if it's just for a walk for half an hour, either in a sling or in the pram. Where does he spend his day? On the floor in a baby play-centre or on your lap etc? By the sound of it he's over-tired and over stimulated by "bed-time" so the key is to get him sleeping more in the day. As a friend of mine says, Sleep Begets Sleep, and I certainly found this to be true.

I hope you sort it out and get things sorted soon.

does he have reflux? Sometimes babies scream when lying down because of reflux.

OP, when I hear how little he is sleeping I really would advise you get a wrap sling like a KariMe or a Moby. They resell at good prices so if you don't get on with it you will get your money back. And my experience was that to get the sleep back on track it took me spending a week totally devoting myself to getting him to doze off ASAP when he was tired, until he was recharged and settling better - and I couldn't have done that without the sling.

Sycamoretreeisvile - thanks so much for all your help. And happily the name doesn't really apply anymore . Should get round to changing it I guess!

I know he doesnt sleep enough. I've always known that but he is surprisingly good natured and happy considering how little sleep he has so I think I'm only just realising how much this is having a knock on effect in the evening.

GreenMonkies - In answer to your questions, most the time he is still awake at the end of a feed. Occassionlly he does drift off but wakes up if I try and put him down. The pram sometimes sends him to sleep but not always. I haven't tried a sling yet but am going to give this a go

A normal day for us is he wakes between 6-7, he has a feed and a cuddle in bed. H ewill sometimes drift off for half hour or so. When he wakes properly I get him washed and dressed. We then play for a bit on the bed
for a while and then I normally take him downstairs and he will sit on his chair for a bit while I do a few things. I tend to move him from room to room with me so he can watch what I'm doing.

Most days we will then either visit/meet friends for lunch or go to a baby playgroup. If we're not doing anything we normally just take a walk to the shops. Occassionlly he will nap for half hour or so during this. It doesn't seem to matter whether we go out or stay in, he will never slept for a couple of hours around lunchtime like a lot of babies. We tend to get home around 4 and from then until bed he will be wide awake until about 7ish when he starts to get quite obviously very tired and irritable.

I think I am missing his sleep signals and trying to put him down when he is over tired. This happened yesterday, he was so tired so I took him for a walk but I left it too late and lost the plot. I think had I done it half hour earlier he may have gone off.

poshsinglemum - I did think of that but I don't think so - he doesn't appear to have any other symptoms and once he gets to sleep he is fine. He also goes down absolutley no problem after his 3-4am feed.

FairMidden - a lot of people have suggested a sling so will take a look at the ones you have suggested.

Thanks again for all your help x

I like ring slings like Huggababys and you can get some bargains on ebay, look for Freedom slings too.

Does he have serious sleep-cues? I mean, most babies that age just nod off, no matter where they are or what you are doing with them, a tired baby will generally go to sleep no matter what! When you say he doesn't often nod off when feeding, do you un-latch him or do you wait until he lets go by himself? Once they are really deeply asleep you cn generally put them down, but with my two if I unlatched them when they looked asleep but hadn't stopped the suction or let go of my nipple an tried to put them down, they would wake up and cry until I nursed them some more.

This is getting more and more puzzling, and, I'm sure, more frustrating for you too!

Thanks will have a look on Ebay.

I never unlatch him, I always wait for him to let go.

It is very odd I agree. DP gets very frustrated as like you (and me!) he cannot understand why he just wont let himself sleep when he clearly so tired.

Having said all that, literally over the last few days he has started dropping off in the morning (about an hour and a half to two hours after he gets up) and has managed to sleep for about half hour or so.

Normally that will be it and he wouldn't sleep again but today I actually managed to get him to have 45 mins at lunch (by sitting next to him in his chair and shusshing/stroking him) and another 20 mins around 6 (by pushing him in his buggy at a bbq).

I think the problem is that he has been giving me signs but I have been picking up on them too late, by which time he is over tired and irritable. Today I have been trying to be more aware of when he may be getting tired (ie a couple of hours after he has woken and after a nice long feed) and engouraging him to sleep then. Also maybe I didn't persist enough before, assuming that he would just drop off naturally when he was tired enough.

Anyway it seems to have had a positive effect as he has gone down tonight without a murmour after his bath and a nice long feed and is currently sound asleep .

I don't suppose for one second that I've sold all his sleeping issues in one day but is a good start and has helped me to think about other ways I can help him.

Thank you for your help x

FT - try for a shorter sleep in the morning and a longer one over lunchtime - which should mean he's less overtired by bed time.

So like, up to an hour in the morning and then hopefully couple of hours over lunch.

My two used to have a nap late afternoon too sometimes, especially if out in the buggy.

GreenMonkies - just wanted to respond to your comment about Baby Whisperer not being bf friendly. I've used a mixture of Baby Whisperer and Gina Ford and still happily breastfeeding DS at 9 months .

I know those methods don't work for everyone though and in many cases it is more beneficial to give up those methods rather than give up breastfeeding.

(not having a go by the way, just wanted to clarify that I am breastfeeding as that wasn't clear from my original post re babywhisperer working for me).

Thanks Sycamore - will aim for that. Hard to imagine at the moment that he could ever sleep for a couple of hours at any point in the day, but I'll give it a go!

Can I just ask you what you used to do about the lunchtime sleep if you were out and about? Would they still have one?

Well, to be honest FT I was a complete slave to that lunchtime nap, as it was my sanity.

I built my day around it and still am as youngest (DS) is still only 20 months and still naps for 1.5 or 2 hours over lunchtime every day.

We will be more flexible on a weekend like today - we went to Windsor Great Park and he slept in car on way there and napped on the way back.

There was a thread on here a while back about someone whose DD had played up over a pub lunch refusing to sleep in the pushchair and was asking what others did when their mates all were childless and kept asking to do social things over lunch hours.

The overwhelming response on the thread was that that the sleep should be respected, the same way you respect the night time sleep. They need the sleep as badly in the day time as at night, so to me it makes sense to treat that nap with the same respect, MOST of the time

But look, that's just me. I'm not saying it's what you should do. And actually, at that age, they do sleep better out and about laid flat in the pram or whatever. So yes, sometimes I would go for lunches and make sure I pushed for long enough before I arrived to get them off to sleep.

"Having said all that, literally over the last few days he has started dropping off in the morning (about an hour and a half to two hours after he gets up) and has managed to sleep for about half hour or so."

Perhaps he's been reading this thread when you weren't looking and has realised that he's supposed to take naps in the daytime too.

If that's the case could we start a thread about children not getting in the way when their mum is trying to cook tea, or jump on the bed when she is trying to have a lie-in (only once in a blue moon is this even attempted!) and leave her to sleep.

Starlight - I do if he is still hungry but 95% of the time he is satisfied by one side. He is very clear when he's had enough and has been putting on weight well so I assumed he was getting enough?

GreenMonkies - maybe that was it! Hope your DD read's this!

Anyway, DS slept through from 8pm until 5am, had a feed and went straight back down until about 7.45am. And guess what, he's having a nap now

I feel quite stupid now but I think I just didn't realised quite how quickly after waking they get tired. I would put his irriabilty down to boredom. This morning when he started to get like that (and I realised he had been up for a couple of hours), I fed him and he drifted off in my arms but soon woke up so I brought him downstairs put him his chair and rocked him for a bit. It took about half hour but he's fast asleep now.

Long way to go but I think a lot of it was down to something as simple as me putting him down too late so thank you all for helping me work this out!

Sycamore - thanks for that. May have to cut back on our social life I think! It's not the end of the world as most the time I can arrange things round his naps - only thing is he's supposed to be starting a gymboree class this week which is at 1pm!

So far he has actually slept better out of the house so if I can improve his napping generally, it may be that he will sleep fine when we're out and about.

Anyway, will take it one step at a time!

Gymboree are nutters doing a class for 3 month olds at that time! lol.

Well done on the improvements so far! Hope they continue. I think at this age a good rule of thumb is if they've been awake more than two hours after any nap and they are grisly, they are either hungry or tired.

One thing about having them nap in the house is that you can at this stage, hopefully also have a much deserved nap yourself and or get some stuff done. As your baby grows, it will be harder to leave them lying on their back batting at a baby gym whilst you load the laundry or whatever, so getting into a rhythm of a good long nap at some point at home is not just money in the bank for now, but also for the future when you frankly need a toddler out from under your feet for a bit of peace and quiet!

Don't feel stupid. Did anyone tell you that he'd probably need a feed and a nap every couple of hours or so? Or were you (like most people) left with the impression that he would feed/sleep every 3-4 hours?

I only discovered this because my answer to every grumble was to stick a boob in DD1's mouth, it silenced her, so I kept on doing it. It worked for DD2 as well, so I kept with it!

However, I am quite frankly very at him sleeping 8pm - 5am, neither of mine did that until they were over two years old!!! (however, if he sleeps this long every night without any feeds at all then you can't rely on the contraceptive side-effect of bf. If there are more than 6 hours between feeds then you can start ovulating and AF can return, so best make sure you are being careful what you get up to whilst he's in bed! Due to the chronic sleep-less-ness of my two I was AF free for over a year, not sure if it's worth trading in a decent nights sleep for no AF though!)

Hope things continue to improve, it would be so much easier if there was an actually instruction manual (but not one written by Gna Frd or Claire Verity!!) and if the babies would read it too!!

I'm glad things are improving for you. The lunchtime nap thing is sooo worth persevering with, its lovely when it works! I still go out over lunchtime now and again and DD just sleeps in my arms, like Greenmonkies says these babies can pretty much sleep anywhere when they're really tired although she doesn't get such good quality peaceful sleep as she would do at home but that's okay sometimes. I have to say though, no matter how well DD sleeps at night or naps during the day I'm still knackered - why is that?!