Support thread for those who were under the misguided illusion that their DC would sleep through by six mo - come and join!

[arthymum]

Did you assume that your DC would be sleeping through by the time they were 6 mo - and now you've hit the milestone you realise you were wrong, wrong, wrong as you stagger out of bed 1, 2, 3 times a night?

Do you sometimes can't help but wonder if you'd done things differently (BF/FF/stuck with the dreamfeed/co-slept/put them in their own cot/followed a GF routine/listened to your MIL ) you'd be getting more sleep?

Do you sometimes dread meeting up with other mums with perfect sleepers (especially when said babies are way younger and tinier than yours)?

Are you in a permanent state of confusion and doubt about whether to 'try' something or not (CC, ssh-patt, PUPD, NCSS etc.) but feel it's never the right time (teething, cold, too young) and not sure anyway whether you have the bottle/energy to see it through?

Do you hold out faint hopes that they'll sleep better when they're on solids/when the teeth come through/when they're another pound heavier/when they're in the new gro-bag/when they're on more solids - and each time - wrong again?

Do you mostly cope okay but every now and then feel tired and miserable and sorry for yourself and burst into tears at the postman or get into a petulant fight in Sainsbury's?

Do you secretly fear that you'll be on here in 3 years time, posting about the fact that you haven't slept for nearly 4 years?

Then come and join me! I've seen you lurking on other threads but feel that we need a place to congregate. Share your tears, tantrums, triumphs and tips - and hopefully one by one, we can all eventually disappear off the thread and into the land of nod....

Hurray for this thread - been meaning to start one similar myself but sleep deprivation has made me forget everything I plan to do!

DS2 is 15 months - terrible night waker, always has been since birth. He's just come out of hospital with a bacterial skin infection and croup and even the nurse on the night shift commented that most children who have a 40.7 degree temp sleep constantly but being on fire didn't keep him asleep. Health professionals seem to think he's just wilful and bright- laughable and no comfort after the 16th wake! Sorry to all 5-6 month mums but you may have a long road ahead.

I'd like to join - my 15 month DS has never slept through, all my fault for bf him to sleep I'm sure ! Whenever he wakes I bf him back to sleep, it's v difficult to pat the back of a baby who is screaming with anger/sadness/frustration/whatever when he's stomping around or standing up in the cot! I also have a DD who sleeps beautifully and I don't want him to wake her up.

I'm just resigned to it now (and never believe those who say how well theirs sleep all the time

Arthymum, it's like you read my mind

HE DID IT!!
9 hours !! 10 pm - 5 am!
sorry to gloat but for weeks he's been going 1,2 or 3 hourly. it's maybe just a one off but i can but hope
the only things i did different were up his meals from 2 to 3 and put him in his sleeping bag so maybe he'd been a bit cold before?
fingers crossed for tonight

Ok, I think I was being grumpy and negative before. Since then I've had a haircut and an eyebrow thread and feel 100 times better so here are my pearls of wisdom.

DD - almost 3. Slept through the night from 3 months. Why? I have no idea - we got lucky. But we were also quite strict about all the controlled crying, only picking up for a few minutes etc etc so perhaps that helped.

DS - 14 months. When he was born DD had only just started walking and was as demanding as any 18 month toddler, so I did anything for a quiet life. That meant bringing DS into bed when he woke, bf him to sleep, holding and rocking him - the works. I just needed to sleep and didn't have the energy or the glow of first-time motherhood to persist with what the books tell you to do (and I decided with DD that they just make you feel inadequate anyway). I can count on two fingers the number of times he has slept through (by which I mean 7-7, not 7-5 cos that to me is not a decent night's sleep!)

These things helped:

1. putting him in his own room (I know I was cynical about that earlier but it really did prevent me from waking every time he squeaked or turned over).
2. getting him on to three solid meals a day.
3. controlled crying when I had the energy (not very often).
4. making a bed next to his cot so I could lie down while holding his hand that made him drift back off but meant I didn't wake up properly so could go back to sleep quickly (see above).
5. me learning to live with it as others have said and not expecting a decent night's sleep. Perhaps when I have given up all hope of ever sleeping again, ever, he'll crack it.

All that said, he did gradually go from waking at 3 to waking at 4 to waking at 5, so the gaps did get longer. All I can say is hang on in there and it helps to get your eyebrows threaded!

Have come to conclusion mothers all have different view as to what 'sleeping through' actually means. For me, it's having 11-12 hours of peace. My DD didn't sleep through until 8 1/2 mths and that all goes out the window when ill/teething, etc. Used to feel like I was doing everything wrong listening to other mothers talk about theirs sleeping from about 10 weeks, but have since learnt they meant they slept after a dream feed/ between the hours of 12 and 5 (which is still waking twice in my book!) I did think they were meant to sleep properly by now though (19mnths) but we're back to being woken several times for some reason. Am not good with lack of sleep!

Soooo reassuring to find I'm not alone afterall . DS1 is 4 YEARS old and DS2 is 15 months. DS2 wakes, on average, 3 times per night. He takes a BF and then back to sleep quite quickly each time, but it's still broken sleep...15 months of it!!!

DS1 wakes every night and wants in our bed. He says he's afraid in his room all alone. The solution we've come up with is...to put a spare cot matress on the floor under our bed. When he comes through (dragging his duvet) we pull it out and he sleeps on that. It means DH & I are undisturbed in our bed and DS1 feels safe in that he's not alone. It works for us and I don't have the energy to tackle it any other way!

Captain Karvol - I like your post.
I like to think that my Boychild doesn't sleep through because he is exceptionally intelligent and talented and so his mind is working overtime. Yah boo to boring sleepy babies.

Re: the sweet potato and Oatibix potion, Neenztwinz is convinced that said foodstuffs help her DTs to sleep through. Funnily enough, I used to follow the Low GI Diet before I was pg and these two foods (sp and oats) are tip-top in terms of slow release of energy, thereby making you feel full for longer. (Arthymum predicts Delia-style run on supermarket shelves...)

Well coincidentally, Boychild had moutain of sweet potato for his tea. He is now snuggled up with Blunky and Chicken toys and I don't expect I will hear from him for a good twelve hours. Will report back tomorrow. Sweet, long, interrupted dreams everyone.

Hmm, interesting about the 3 solid meals thing. I had started DS on solids fairly cautiously and at the moment he's only having two meals a day - breakfast and, um, another one - and not to any kind of schedule. However, true to gannet-like form he basically eats everything I give him and is still bf loads in the day (tends to fall asleep after 5 minutes at night), so maybe now is the time to knock it up a notch and start giving 3 meals on a fairly solid timetable.

I also suspect he is cold a lot of the time (stupid drafty Victorian house with doorless loft conversion ) - he is in a grobag with extra blankets but still, it's bloody freezing unless the weather is exceptionally mild.

CaptainKarvol I liked your post also The thing I actually hate most about sleep deprivation is that I have less energy to play with my gorgeous smiley boy.

I've heard that babies who don't sleep are more intelligent. My brother was exceptionally talented and intelligent. When I asked my mum if he slept as a baby she replied 'Never'. Case closed. Our children will change the world

Can I join too?

DS is 6.5 months and did sleep through for about a week and a half at 4 months then never again!

My HV is convinced that he will magically suddenly start improving but I have lost all hope and am just resigned to feeling tired forever.

On a bit of a spiritual vibe. Was reading "The Art of Happiness" by Dali Lama (and other bloke whose name I can't remember). In the section about Suffering it said one way to help when you are suffering is to remember that you are not the only one. So when I am up at 1am, 2am, 3am or whenever DS decides to wake up tonight I will be thinking of all you other MNers from this thread who are awake and suffering too!

I often think of other MNers when I'm awake at night

I'm certain that DD1 who almost never slept in the day (or so it felt) was walking at 10 months because she had more time to practise!

DD2 sleeps better in the day (although still up up to 6 times at night) is not as advanced, so maybe the theory is true.

Can I join? I really haven't had a full night's sleep in four years- abit longer actually.DD1 only started sleeping through at the end of my pregnancy with DD2 and DD2 still doesn't sleep through at 22m.I have a Husband who does a lot with the girls and gives me as much rest as possible but I am still a bit of a wreck.I would like my old brain back.Now I am so used to waking that even if she sleeps a bit longer than normal I wake anyway.Grrr.

sleeping through by 6 months????

My DD is 2 next month. Last night I had her in my bed to get a good night's sleep. At 8 months pregnant I really need a good bit of kip every now and again and despite my resolutions that she should be in her room, in her bed I buckle and bring her in with me every so often just for the peace and quiet.

I hope and pray that Baby2 will be a nice calm and sleeeeeepy baby.

agree with the thought that everyones view of sleeping through is different but geckos wakes every two hours
That aint sleeping through by anyones view !!

How is everyone doing today? I am shocked and stunned to report that last night was really rather good - asleep by 8pm, a bit of wailing at 8.30pm that was shushed by DP, then nothing till midnight when we had an hour of snack feeding, vocalising, singing and crying - was quite cute actually Eventually tried him on the boob again and he had a good long feed, then fell happily asleep, then started laughing in his sleep - so funny! Eventually got him back in his cot at 1am and he didn't wake again until 6am [faints]. DP got up with him too so I got to sleep 1-7am Cannot believe the difference I feel.

Hope everyone else is surviving and thriving.

cyteen that is amazing news, well done J!

not such a good night to report here, well, blardy awful to be honest. Ds usually wakes for a late night feed - was at 10.20 last night, then he was crying at 11.45again and seemed starving - then he was up every one or two hours and I fed him each time - a few months ago I tried all the shushing, patting, dummy etc and we all just got upset and more tired so boob it is. Last night was a shocker though - the last few weeks we've got back to about 2 wakings after the late night feed and I really hoped we had turned a corner. Have been feeling quite down about it the morning cos if he was in his own room I really would have been up and down a million times.

we have started meals now - he's just had toast crusts, pear and steamed apple segments for brekkie. I think he swallowed a bit.

Well anther night of rubbish kip up from 11pm-12am, 1am-2pm and 5am-6am, and now am sitting behind my boring desk trying to do some complex financial forecasting - my brain is so frazzled.
Will admit I kind of lost my temper last night and said 'Why on Earth dont you just go to sleep'

MissM - interesting theory about children who don't sleep and being more intelligent - at the rate my DD2 is going she is going to rule the world!

Congratulations to anyone who had a better night sleep. I am envious really pleased for you.

On the subject of non sleepers being intelligent , I found that Dr Sears (celeb American paediatritian) is v comforting in this respect. He has coined the term "high needs" child. Basically they eat alot, need to alot of interaction, and physical contact, but don't sleep much. However they become marvellous adults and are very clever with great empathy for those around them.

This is my crumb of comfort

Will update you on the sleep HV's visit once she has been later this morning.

Miraculously a good one here, in spite of The Teeth (another one finally through this morning, hurray!) Slept from 7.30 until 1, then wittered to himself on and off for nearly 2 hours but didn't seem to require any intervention from me. Good feed at 2.45 and back down until 6.30.

Amani - I feel for you. Financial forecasting perplexes me at the best of times. When pg and exhausted, the only thing that got me through it was Soreen malt loaf mid-morning and afternoon. Fantastic for energy. That and chocolate cake, obviously.

my poor DS was kept awake until 10pm last night because we had DH's cousin here to help shift furniture in prep for having new carpet fitted. He then went out like a light and allowed me to put him in his cot - stayed asleep until ~1:30am, had a dreamfeed and (OMG) went back down in his cot (almost unheard of in recent weeks) but then ruined it all at about 3:30am by waking up and trying to climb out of his cot to greet me. No going back down that time, so had to bring him in with me - I just can't function at that hour of the morning, in the cold etc.

He'd better be intelligent after all this!

I'm just writing my 'in case of emergency babysitting' guide for the impending birth of tinybaby, and detailing DS's sleep habits for any potential overnight babysitter is, um, making me wonder whether anyone will sit for us at all!

For your delectation - would you babysit this child while mum was in labour (remember, he is just 3 years old)...

Falling asleep
DS still needs someone to sit with him until he falls asleep. He likes his hand held, and may ask for ‘big cuddles’, which means you sitting or kneeling by his bed and putting your arms around him as he lies down. If he is very fidgety we usually tell him we will cuddle him again once he has stopped fidgeting about, and go and sit on the chair in his room until he calms down. If DS has had a nap in the day, he takes about 30 mins to fall asleep. If no nap then usually less time.

Overnight
If DS wakes, he will not usually settle himself, you need to go and see him. He will want a cuddle. He does not get to come downstairs, but this is a special occasion, so please do what you feel is right! He does not sleep all night. [Mum] usually takes him into the spare (double) bed with her at some point in the night.

Breakfast
DS usually wakes early – anything from 5.30 onwards. I usually try not to bring him downstairs before 6.00. He is not allowed telly (ie DVDs) before 7.00, and he knows this.

Odd what C&P from Word does - all those numbers used to be punctuation marks...

He sounds rather lovely tbh CaptainK, although I can see it might wear a bit thin if you have to do it every single night

Just perusing another well known parenting site and thought this choice piece of copy from their '6 month old development' area might amuse...

"Babies this age need about 14 hours of sleep per day and are capable of sleeping for as long as seven hours at a time. If your baby sleeps for longer than that, she's probably waking up briefly but has figured out how to settle herself back to sleep - a sign that she's becoming a good sleeper. She's probably having a couple of hour-and-a-half to two-hour naps each day by now, one in the morning and one in the afternoon. Keeping consistent times for bed and naps will help to regulate her sleep patterns. "

A ha ha. Ha ha ha ha ha. Ha.

Two hour naps? What a joke - DS2 has never never never had a two hour nap.

Terrible night last night - up six times. Does anyone else's DH pretend they're asleep when the dc's are wailing? And does anyone else suffer from night time anger? I'm very to admit that there have been many 1am,2am,3am,4am,5am tantrums, pillow throwing, microwave slamming and expletive hissing. I try to control my rage but after the 6th waking I find it very very hard, particularly at the moment. I sometimes feel like I'm being tortured!