Please, please help me with my 8mo - can't cope much more - sorry, long post

[WibblyPigRocks]

My 8mo DS goes to sleep brilliantly, on his own, very happy after a textbook bedtime routine at 7ish every night.

After that, all bets are off. He often wakes up screaming an hour or two after going to bed, although occasionally he can go three hours. I nearly always end up BFing him back to sleep - sometimes he'll take quite a lot, sometimes not.

He could then wake every two hours, but it's usually a lot more random and he's not usually distressed like he is at the start of the night. Last night, he woke at 10pm, 12.20am, 1.30am, 2.30am, 3.20am, 5.20am and then woke for the day at 7.30am. I fed him each time until 5.20, when DH took him into our bed on his side and DS went back to sleep. This happens most mornings, which DH is happy enough with although he doesn't sleep himself and neither do I really.

When I say I fed him, I mean sometimes it can be a full boob, sometimes it's barely anything. Again, no pattern. However, if he actually feeds more at night, he won't take much milk in the morning.

He may well be hungry sometimes, but I am 100% positive that this is not usually the case, so please, please don't post that at 8mo it's normal to still feed so much at night, that at 8mo I shouldn't expect him to sleep more than a few hours at a time and that everyone of my BFing friends who says their baby is now sleeping at least a stretch of 7 hours is lying.

Something has got to change and I haven't got a bloody clue what to do.

I took my dd to a cranial osteopath as her pattern was very similiar at this age and within two sessions she slept better and yippee so did I! She was a big baby and was all squished.

I thought this might be of interest to you. I found it posted on a different thread.

"DS used to wake and feed back to sleep quite a lot during the night. I always fed him to sleep but I found that if I watched him and detatched him when he was just starting to drift off he would fall asleep without having to suck on me! Sometimes he did wake up right away and look for milk again and I would let him have it and then do the same again. GRadually he started to just feed when we first got into bed and then he would roll off me and go to sleep by himself with me just cuddling/patting him. This meant when he woke during the night I could just pat him or cuddle him and he would fall back asleep by himself without latching on - unless he was genuinely hungry/thirsty. Maybe you can try that? It doesn't involve any crying or a stressed out/worried/upset mummy !"

Here's another one:

"By lou031205 on Fri 02-Jan-09 20:01:07
Papaya, I have one!

When DD was 10 months, I had the same issue. I finally decided that enough was enough.

I chose a day when I felt strong, and stopped night feeds. BUT I have a bedside cot, so I put the cot side down, and every time she looked for comfort by feeding, I made sure the duvet was covering my boobs, and then gave her a big cuddle. I told her she was a big girl now, and that she could do it. At first she cried a little, but she soon realised that she wasn't going to get more than a cuddle. I cuddled her to sleep instead.

6 months on, we have finally got to the stage where she can be put in her cot awake, and she settles herself to sleep.

She has never been left to cry, and she has never had to 'get over it', but by gradually moving from breastfeeding, to cuddling, to holding hands next to her, to holding hands through the bars of the cot (long stage...) to lying on the bed next to the cot but not touching her, we have taught her that she can settle herself to sleep.

The method we used is a bit of a cobbled version of the Dr Jay Gordon method and the No Cry Sleep Solution, with a bit of the baby whisperer thrown in for good measure.

I don't think it is too young at 10 months, IF you are confident that he is not waking because he is hungry - ie. 2 min feeds every 2 hours.

I didn't try sleep training with DD1 until she was 2 because she genuinely seemed to need a cup of milk in the night. She didn't want attention, just milk. When we finally decided to crack down, she had already decided that she didn't need it anyway and had started sleeping through.

With DD2, I knew that she was waking just for the enjoyment of latching on for 2 minutes. So I made changes for my good."

Thank you so much for all your comments. I am going to print these pages out and discuss them with DH when he gets home from work so that we can formulate a plan.

Last night was awful. As usual, went to sleep fine at 7, then:

9.00
10.15
12.20
2.40
3.30
5.00

He then woke for the day at 7.10am

The first two wake-ups involved screaming - does anyone have any idea why this might happen? He has a runny nose today, but no other cold or teething symptoms. I'm wondering how DH will be able to settle him when he's already woken up in such a state.

God, I'm tired.

wibblypig - feeling your pain. Can you go back to bed when he naps today - its the only way to get through it I think.

What did he have for dinner?anything new?anything likely to cause an upset stomach? My dd woke up like that once when she had egg for dinner for example.

Did he seem in pain to you?

The other thing is do you think its warm enough in the room?

He could be coming down with a cold as well tbh - but then my dd sleeps through them now pretty well and so the sleep still needs addressing.

Once you have crossed everything else possible from the list then you can confidently address the sleeping.

Thanks, giantkatestacks. I do wonder if he is in pain at the start of the night - DH often thinks it's wind and DS has always been a very windy baby and a bit prone to constipation, despite being BF. But I haven't been able to identify any food culprits as yet and this happens so often now.

I do think it's warm enough - although I've been so petrified of him overheating, the poor little sod has probably been cold since birth.

Things have been going from bad to worse over the past two months (just before Christmas he was waking up just once between 7 and 7 - what bliss!!!!), so I think I have to do something more proactive soon.

Thanks again to all x

Just to add another comment, how does he go to sleep during the day and for how long? Does he resettle himself if he wakes during his daytime naps. I had problems similar to yours (not quite as bad I have to admit) and spoke to the health visitor, that was when I realised that although he would go to sleep fine at night time by himself I rocked or fed him to sleep for every daytime nap and it only tended to be for half an hour and he never resettled as I went to him straight away. As soon as I got him going to sleep by himself during the day (no crying, just doing the same as a bedtime routine and sitting with him while he went to sleep) his daytime naps became longer and he found it much easier to resettle himself at night, sometimes sleeping all night sometimes waking for a feed (I gradually stopped him feeding by watering down the milk - I know you can't do this but maybe just offering a beaker of water or something??). He is 19 months now and is a great sleeper most of the time, he does sometimes wake in the night and call out but I very rarely have to go into him as he settles back down himself.
Sorry for long post but thought it might be an idea as it was something nobody else had suggested!

WibblyPig - You are describing my DD's sleep pattern almost exactly! And I used NCSS to get to the stage where I can almost get her to go to sleep on her own, yet she's still waking. Just wanted you to know you're not the only one with 8 mth baby sleeping like (or worse) a newborn. Have seen slight improvement since doing NCSS on getting her back to sleep without a feed sometimes (I refuse to feed her hourly, every 2 hrs is bad enough).

I am going spare, so will at some point probably do something about it in the next month. I was thinking of trying to increase the gaps between feeds from 2 hrs to 3 hrs, then to 4 hrs and onwards. I'm feeling your pain .

Dr Jay Gordon is a good method to combine with NCSS. He recommends it for babies older than 12 months but I'm sure it would work with a younger baby too.

I've read the Jay Gordon stuff and I'm very interested and a little hopeful Has anyone had any success with this?

Lisa - that's very interesting stuff about naps and I think that applies here so that's something I'll work on asap.

Kay - thanks and good luck for sleep tonight

I am already dreading tonight. He's gone to sleep so well, it seems hard to believe that in all likeilhood he'll be screaming the house down in a few hours.

so what time are you going to feed him then - have you got a plan or are you going to start tomorrow as its friday and you'll be able to get some rest during the day?

Yes - I'll start tomorrow. Thanks again. Wish me luck!!

good luck - and stick to it. Let us know how it goes.

My DD was very similar to your DS except for the dairy allergy.She also had an extra BF at about 8 o'clock. Then she would wake every 2 hours throughout the night.
I really didn't think there was much milk left anyway as I was so tired.
We started to give a bottle at the last feed two weeks ago - which made absolutely no difference so knew it wasn't really hunger waking her up.
The startling loud screaming became common too (pre-bottle period)very late evening - usually after 10pm.

I thought that we had been rushing in to her room too soon when she began to cry in case she woke our other DD. We decided that I would BF only if she was inconsolable.
We decided to do our own version of CC and just leave her a little longer (even a minute or two)to cry each time. I haven't fed her so far this week except at 6am each morning and during the day.
We're on Day 6 now and she's down to one momentary waking during the night.

Do you use a dummy? We did and found it helped alot.

I feel human again after just one week. I was willing to try any method available but even this small change helped immeasurably.

I wish you luck and hope it won't be long before you can sleep once again.

Thought all you kind people might like an update. We did set timings - we went for 11 and 3. We've kept to the 11 one really well and it's paying off - the last two nights, DS hasn't woken up before midnight!! It's a bit more difficult later in the night, but he's waking up a lot less and I feel much more human. I hope this is the shape of things to come!!

I'm worried now about going backwards - what should I do when we have another teething bought/ cold? He wants comfort from my boobs but that leads us into this whole mess again - any tips?

Finally, thanks for everyone's help and support - the last month in particular has been really crappy because of this and the last day or two have been so much better x

yey thats great news wibbly - glad you're feeling better, it makes such a massive difference doesnt it.

Its difficult to say what to do in a teething bout because all children are different - fwiw my two are unsettled during the day but not really at night with it - ds not at all but dd will wake much earlier than normal.

So we tend to leave her if she is just mewling to herself but go in if she is properly crying and then comfort and calpol but not feed - I think once you've stopped at night then you've stopped iyswim.

Yes, I see!

Thanks again x