4-5 month olds sleep club, - come and join..........

[SnowlightMcKenzie]

Hiya,

There have been so many threads lately about babies who were beginning to sleep better, but suddenly hitting this regression to newborn hell.

So I thought I would start a support thread for us all to compete whinge about how little sleep we are all getting, and tips on how to cope.

Baby Starlight was up just twice last night, but the previous night it was 6 times, and because of that I kept putting off going to bed at all last night, so even though it wasn't too bad, I still had hardly any sleep

Well unbelievably ds did his best night ever in his entire life so far last night! 6.30pm to 4am (!!!) then feed then back asleep until 6.15am (!!!) Of course, I still woke up at 12 and 2 to check he was still breathing as it was so unusual, and my boobs were like leaky rocks this morning, but maybe maybe we're into a new phase? Please, please say it's so. Wishing you all a happy Valentine's - I bet I'll be back on here tomorrow moaning about 2 hourly wakings...

Yaaaaaaaaaay averagemun (though you have my sympathies for waking up anyway)

Thanks Cyteen - I'm going to wear something I can't breastfeed in, just for the novelty value

afternoon all. last night was marginally better. DS2 slept from 12.30am until about 5am when he woke starving and fed for about an hour.

thanks for asking about the consultant appointment for DS2 - he has a VSD and we have been referred to the cardiologist to discuss surgery. he was really helpful and has reassured me that DS2 is healthy and growing well.

today has been horrendous - DS1 had a complete meltdown at lunchtime, DH flipped and i was left to pick up the pieces. came home to find the dog had wee'd all over the hall carpet not really what i had planned for valentines afternoon shampooing a carpet but hey ho

DS2 has been awake all afternoon so am hoping he will go down early tonight.

Howdy ladies
Anglepoise I think we are having a parallel experience also (thursday = terrible, last night = up 3 times, from about 10 - 7 ... I am so very not complaining - I think I've had a really good run this week)

averagemum - that's ace! - i never sleep as long as dd either - constantly checking she's ok if she sleeps for more then, say, an hour! - ironic 'aint it?

tank 'em up, feed to sleep, do whatever it takes, say I

I hope it gets better for everyone, i really do (leoni especially)

I'm off to have some bubbles

happy valentines evening

Gosh, this thread is still going!?

That's great that there is obviously enough misery to go around

titfer Sorry, no suggestions, but symapthies.

Karney Welcome

CSWS I do the same as you. Baby wakes, Starlight bolts awake with adrenaline urgency and puts nipple-gag in baby's mouth before the rest of the house wakes up.

Minkersmum Hello again

MrsTittlemouse If we have parallel lives, then your Valantines meal with your DH was a McDonalds in the carpark with two sleeping children in their carseats in the back.

I have 21 months between my DS & DD. DS just dropped day time naps but does struggle to get to bed-time.

Have a good night everyone.

We haven't had our Valentine's meal yet - we're waiting until DD2 is asleep. Normally she will sleep for about 3 hours late evening - fingers crossed she will do that today! We have an M&S ready meal.

I suppose that the good news is that my DD1 now isn't too bad of a sleeper at all now (after being a dreadful sleeper as a baby). She hasn't had daytime naps since I conceived DD2 (great timing!), but will go to bed at 7pm and usually sleep through. So hopefully DD2 will get over this eventually...

So what age are they starting to grow out of this then?

Give me hope!

Though to be fair, it has made me be a bit firmer with DS and his sleeping and he has (rather painlessly actually) gone to sleep on his own for the past week and slept through last night although he is still waking early. So, when DD comes out of it things should be a lot better in our household!

Mrs T, I think i first noticed you on a thread about morning sickness and looking after a toddler and then midwife appointments and looking after a toddler. I probably sounds like a stalker now but I've got a weird memory for things like that!

We had a couple of respectable nights last week when ds only woke up twice but the last two nights have been back to his multiple wake ups/nightmare to settle routine.

I've borrowed the NCSS book from the library and am going to work on his daytime naps first as it sounds like chronic overtiredness may be disrupting the nights (he often only naps for a few mins at a time (eg falls asleep in the sling on the way home and wakes as we walk in the door or falls asleep feeding then wakes when I try to move). Am going to try doing some long walks when he is due for a nap so he gets some proper daytime sleep...

Well tonight is already off to a bad start. Ds went to bed at 7:15, but woke at 8:05 and took just over half an hour to get off to sleep again, with a good feed, and a blanket now swaddling him over the top of his sleeping bag. He's let out a few wails since, but hasn't actually woken.

Meanwhile dh is upstairs with dd (just 3), who kept getting up after being put to bed, and was having tantrums when he tried to leave her to settle.

We produce such good sleepers .

I don't DO daytime naps. What I mean is, - I do whatever I do, and Baby Starlight either sleeps or doesn't.

I find it makes not a jot of difference to what happens at night so in the day time she does what she does and I am unlikely to remember it anyway. I do still try to tank her up in the evenings and this does seem to produce at least 3 hours for the first part of the night (we still go to bed together at around 10:30). I wouldn't put her down earlier because I don't want her to risk doing the 3 hours when I'm still up iyswim.

So she's never 'due' a nap. I find not controlling the day-time naps makes me feel less of a failure when it all goes horribly wrong.

Hmmm, DS has been wailing in his sleep on and off all night again Nothing actually wrong as far as we can tell, just wants cuddles and reassurance. I wonder if it's connected to weaning? I just started giving him a few bits of food this week...perhaps his digestion is going mad and waking him up.

Skimpty - A while back you said that your LO wakes up after 45min then takes an hour and half to get back to sleep. I don't mean to sound at all patronising when I say this so please don't take it that way, but are you sure that you're not taking her to bed too early? My DD has had a nap at 6.30-7ish for months, she always wakes and has a play and then I take her up at about 8.30. This last week though she has fallen asleep at nap time (I always let naptimes be natural, I don't put her in her cot or anything), and she's not woken up again. So I am now taking it that her bedtime is about 7pm and once she's looking like falling asleep I take her up. A couple of friends of mine have tried to shoehorn their babies into sleeping at whatever time they think they should be sleeping, and I really think this just makes it harder, I am baby-led with everything, but I know that lots prefer a definite daily routine.

Starlight - You use the same 'technique' as me then for daytime sleeps. My DD sleeps when she wants, I'll be on the pc and suddenly realise she's fast asleep on the floor still holding a toy! I do so much walking with the pram/sling that it'd be impossible to do it if I had a structured nap timetable.

Leonie - will she take a bottle? when dd was doing the distracted thing (really frustrating) i started giving her ebm in a bottle, as you can sort of move it around with their heads IUSWIM? (that's if you have time/energy to express)
just an idea ... it's fecking horrible being so tired and weepy. ( I cried my eyes out last week because i burned some croissants.)

lollipop I guess it is the routine/non-routine thing. I don't have the issues that you have leonie because I never put her down for a nap so don't have to spend any effort trying to get her to sleep.

For me this is far less stressful, but it does mean I can't ever rely on having a set time to get things done. I just suddenly notice that Baby Starlight is asleep, so take the opportunity to prepare lunch, play with my toddler, do some washing etc. but I never know in advance quite WHEN I'll get to do these things. However, I don't think of Baby Starlight as having feeding/sleeping issues during the day, although I'm fairly certain I would think that if I struggled to impose naps.

(I DO however, see Baby Starlight having sleep/feed issues during the night, - because I'm certainly trying to 'impose' sleep then, - although I do try to understand that it is normal for a baby of this age.)

Ah Leonie I'm afraid that every baby is different, and every mother-baby relationship is different. I know what I'd do, but this is based on my limited experience of just 2 babies. I'd not worry about interpretting cries, and I wouldn't feed her just because I felt like it, or get her to sleep because I feel she is tired.

Instead, I'd leave her when she appears content and at the first sign of getting fractious feed her. Sometimes she'll fall asleep quickly, sometimes feed for ages and then sleep, and sometimes feed and then play. Sometimes she'll just fall asleep without a feed on the floor, in the pram, wherever she happens to be.

I feel that this is the right thing for her, but tbh it's partly my own justification for not being very organised. Still, I do feel that overall it is a less stressful approach, although a mother with no structure who needs it may well get stressed doing things the way I do, I don't know.

Although, I'd please like some structure to the night, namely, baby goes to bed at 7:30pm, and sleeps until 8:30am

Leonie No idea what to suggest - was thinking of a sling but sounds as though you're trying that already. If you're anywhere near me then I'll come and sit with her for a bit while you sleep!

daisyblue hope your night wasn't the same as ours last night - I was right about us being in a good night/bad night pattern! Bed just after midnight, up at 3, possibly up again after that, up at 5 when I thought she was damp but might have just been cold then promptly forgot about it/fell asleep ; back up at 5.30 when I realised she was in fact soaking, so had to change every single thing she was wearing from her grobag to her nappy, by which time she was obviously wide awake and very excited. Back to (our) bed where she chatted for a bit, tried to feed her to sleep and she just kept biting me Then she coughed and did what sounded like an enormous squirty poo, so swore in several different languages and got up to change her again, only to find that it was in fact the merest smidge of yellow (back in the days when she was tormenting us by only pooing once every six days - we'd be on red alert from day 2 - you would swear she'd just copiously filled her nappy but find nothing there at all; obviously the phantom menace was back). Back to bed for more chatting/squawking and chewing on my nips and eventually decided I might as well get up (6.30 by this point). Came downstairs for a grumble on MN but she wouldn't be put down long enough. Managed to rock her to sleep and back up to bed. Another feed at I don't know what time but was woken up by DH to find DD lying prone across my tummy and nip still pointing jauntily ceiling-wards. Then he took her downstairs so I could have a lie-in

So theoretically we are due a good night tonight after our dinner out - though at the moment I'm thinking we should just dump DD at my mum's, come back here and go to bed!

leonie I was also going to suggest a sling, you are on the right track there I think. At least you can play a bit with dd1 at the same time as having dd2 close.

anglepoise your night sounds like mine, I can no longer remember what time I was up or what I did when but we were up a lot and last night ds decided 4.50am was time to get up and was in our bed singing/shouting/giggling etc til my alarm went off at 7am. My dp has had enough and is now giving ds food against my wishes, but I no longer have the strength to argue the point. We are doing blw so he's giving him toast crusts, broccoli + carrot etc although he is only 23 weeks. I dont think it will help. He s also going to give ds formula tonight for the late night feed. I am very about this. I also dont think this will help as ds often awakens due to wind. I think we'd be better off putting him in his own room as dp wakes at the slightest noise, but then worry that I'll be getting up just as often and traipsing through to ds's room every time.

sambo - if you're doing blw then I wouldn't worry, as it's unlikely that your ds will actually eat anything by himself for a while!
In your situation I would actually move dh into another room, rather than ds.

Anglepoise - we switched nappy type a few days ago in the hope of finding one that would last through the night, but last night it let us down, so I too had to do a full change at 5:30am. To my surprise I managed to get ds back to sleep about 6:30, when he actually had his soundest and most peaceful sleep of the night, swaddled in 2 blankets rather than in a sleeping bag. (Still only 1hr 40mins, but that's good for him!

Leonie - sling sounds like a good idea, but for getting her to sleep rather than keeping her awake! Can you do some day outings to somewhere outdoorsy next week? I'm thinking of something like a zoo (clubcard vouchers can pay if you have any). This will give you all some fresh air, you can have dd2 in mixture of sling/pushchair, and dd1 will get to have fun. When you need to feed (and I would wait until she asks) then give dd1 a drink/snack, and try to do it where she has something she can look at/ play on without going out of sight.

csws dp has tried sleeping downstairs but it's cold and the cat is noisy. Then I cleared out the spare room and dp slept in there but doesnt like it - he says whereever he is he hears ds and gets a disturbed night so he may as well be in our lovely comfy bed. I offered to wake him if he wears earplugs but he says he doesnt like things in his ears

leonie I also tried feeding ds as much as poss even though not really hungry - but a friend said if her baby is hungry, she waits 15 mins then feeds and gets her to take much more formula than if she feeds at the first sign of hunger. interesting point, I now wait a bit too but am bf so not easy to tell what's going on.