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Original poster

Has anyone ever taken a child of 8 to doctors as they don't sleep?

53 replies

ssd · 11/01/2009 21:27

as you can guess we're getting desperate

ds has never been a good sleeper and he's getting worse

we're having to lie beside him every night till he falls asleep - sometimes lying there for an hour

he won't sleep unless we're there. we've tried letting him scream but that keeps his elder sibling awake and isn't working for us as a family.

the doctors is a last resort but will he laugh at me?

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Original poster
ssd · 13/01/2009 09:32

thanks for that, at this stage I'd try anything

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Jux · 13/01/2009 09:50

DD was a bit like this; she's got a dreamcatcher which helped a lot, and I leave the light on - switch it off when I come to bed. She also listens to music or talking books, which keeps her company - again I switch the player off when I go to bed. She has a statue of Bast (Egyptian goddess of the home) to protect her too and stuff like that all around the room.

ayeayesir · 13/01/2009 09:55

Has he started to think that the bad dreams/scary things are kept away by you being there at the moment he falls asleep, i.e. has he ritualised that a bit, become sort of superstitious about it? If so that will be a hard thing to get past and may need a different approach. The link between a strong anxiety and a belief that you have to do something (or something has to be done) in order to get rid of the scary thing is really strong, but you can get round it by tackling the anxiety. You possibly wouldn't want to replace one thing (having to have you there when he falls asleep) with another (something like a dreamcatcher), but on the other hand a dreamcatcher could be a useful step towards needing nothing. I think if you're really struggling a doctor, or reading lots about anxiety and so on for some ideas of how to talk to him about his fears, could help.

Original poster
ssd · 13/01/2009 15:53

I can understand why he is scared, I can remember being scared at his age and wanting to stay downstairs with my mum and dad. In fact at his age I used to fall asleep on the couch and get carried upstairs to bed! Now I think of it my mum could do this as my older siblings had left home and I was like an only child, so I guess mum could do things I can't do with 2 kids. If ds2 got away with sleeping on the couch ds1 would want to do this too! Thats part of the problem, we have a tiny house and ds2 is keeping ds1 awake at night with his crying out for us if he's alone in his room. And ds1 doesn't want to share, although TBH he's got no room in his bedroom for ds2 anyway, rooms are tiny.

Such a hard one.

Will talk to ds2 about a dreamcatcher later when its just us two, his big brother might say that sound stupid and put him off!

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toenail · 13/01/2009 22:01

I have 8 year old that is just the same. We are considering private sleep clinic but just been to GP and he is doing blood tests. We have found that putting a sleeping bag beside our bed and telling him to get in without waking us helps in an emergency.

jack99 · 14/01/2009 12:52

If the problem is being frightened of the dark/ loneliness would it help if he shared a room with his older brother (if he does not already)? My 7 year old son refused to go to sleep alone in his room when we moved him to a bed from his cot at 18 months ( had to do this as he was very big and started literally jumping out of his cot and throwing himself on the floor - it was either a bed or serious head injuries!). He screamed when we tried to settle him in his bed alone in his room and we ended up letting him fall asleep in the sitting room then carrying him to bed - only to have him wake up in the early hours and scream because he found himself alone. When we went to stay with my parents when he was 2 he shared a room with his sister (2 years older) and settled without a murmur, not stirring all night. When we got home we asked if he would like to share with his sister (after checking with her that she did not mind!) and he jumped at the idea. We never had any problems since, in fact he often asks to go to bed as soon as he gets tired. He moved into his own room 6 months ago and is quite happy to sleep alone now - which is lucky as his sister was getting a bit tired of the arrangement!

Would it be possible to try this - he may be lonely?

Original poster
ssd · 14/01/2009 16:23

toenail, why do blood tests? should I be worried about something else?

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Original poster
ssd · 14/01/2009 16:26

jack99, yes he'd love to share, but big brother doesn't want to, he loves having his own room. big brother would need to move into little brothers room and I'd need to get bunks. No room in big brothers room for little one to move into,room is too tiny.

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BlameItOnTheBogey · 14/01/2009 16:35

ssd I'm coming late to this but I used to have this problem. I still vividly remember the fear I used to feel at night and I used to spend the whole day dreading the fact that night would soon be coming and I would have to lie on my own in the dark. For years, I used to wait until my parents had fallen asleep and then sneak in and sleep on their floor with my duvet. I only recently found out that they knew I was doing that. Things that made a difference for me; my parents eventually swapped my room with my sisters. So I was in the room next to theirs and not the first room at the top of the stairs (where I felt the baddies would get me). They also bought me a goldfish for my room. Madness I know but then when I heard noises at night it was easier to rationalise them and assume it was the fish (!) And I smuggled a big bell into my room which helped because it made me feel that when 'they' came to get me, I could ring the bell and everyone would wake up and come and rescue me.

I think this was a normal(ish) phase in my development. I still get a bit scaredy now at night if I am on my own. I think you need to ask DS what he thinks would help him and then try and make that happen (is he, for example, scared because of the location of his room?)

Hope this helps.

Original poster
ssd · 14/01/2009 19:16

thanks BlameItOnTheBogey

thats it, he is just scared, even when he was lying next to me the other night trying to go to sleep, I was watching him (thru half shut eyes!) and he was staring at the door, the light was on in the hall and he just stared at this few inches of light as if he expected someone he didn't know to walk thru the door.

I spoke to him today about a dreamcatcher, was mentioned here earlier. He asked if it would stop him getting a particular scary dream he sayd he always has and when I said no it can't stop it he said he didn't want it. TBH he said "that sounds kind of daft mummy", don't think I'd get round him with this! worth a try though.

We can't move his room, as I said out house is tiny and we are all squashed in as it is.

Think he'll be sleeping with me till he's 20!! at this rate

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Original poster
ssd · 14/01/2009 19:17

our house, not out house!

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Original poster
ssd · 14/01/2009 19:19

oh, and he's got a fish, but not a bell

can I ask what age you think it started to get a little easier? (please don't say 20's!)

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BlameItOnTheBogey · 14/01/2009 19:33

Hmm not much help because I think it was around early teens.... sorry. Keep going though - recognising the fear and supporting him will be a great help.

Original poster
ssd · 14/01/2009 20:15

thing is, he now won't sleep in his own bed, can stay awake till 11pm no bother, even on a school night, so I have to lie beside him in my bed till he sleeps. Which would be ok if he took about 10-15 mins to sleep, but sometimes I can be lying there waiting for up to an hour, this is when my patience wears thin and I want to throw him in his room and close the door(but I don't)

my night now ends at 8.30, so dh and I get absolutely no "chat" time when the kids are in bed and as we've no family around that ever help/take the kids we feel we are leading separate lives sometimes

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toenail · 14/01/2009 22:01

My GP tends to do blood tests for every problem but he did mention anaemia may cause the problem.

jack99 · 14/01/2009 23:35

Ah yes, sorry, I see my point had been put earlier in thread - didn't read properly!

WilfSell · 14/01/2009 23:41

I feel for you both. I wonder if you should - when you see your GP, which you should definitely do because there are specialist sleep clinics you can be referred to... - you should also enquire about help with his anxiety. Reading your posts and the kinds of things he is saying, I am wondering if he has developed a phobic anxiety about sleep?

You might - though it is difficult - be able to get a referral to a children's psychology unit. One very good treatment for anxiety (which is not about what causes it but helping people to deal with it) is cognitive behavioural therapy. Someone who is experienced with helping children with this may be able to help quite quickly. Alternatively, CBT is something you can do some work with yourself if you're interested.

JodieO · 14/01/2009 23:52

As ds1 is older can you not explain to him that ds2 would love to share a room with him for now and that it would help him? Assuming ds1 is a couple of years older and will understand. I can imagine how hard it is for you, my dc's have never been good sleepers and I've had 7 years of it so far with them all but I wouldn't give them drugs because they are scared tbh; that isn't a solution imo. It solves your problem but not his, sorry if that sounds harsh, I don't intend to be.

ClementFreudsGreatestAdmirer · 15/01/2009 00:02

i was EXACTLY like this as a child. Your ds might be much more rational than me, but i agree with WilfSell, it would be great to deal with the anxiety above all else. You don't want to hear this but i would still have to sleep with my mum occasionally when i was 16 and Dad had to go in my room. As a 30 year old I've finally had a phobic anxiety disorder diagnosed (and successfully treated, I'm pleased to say).

Original poster
ssd · 15/01/2009 09:40

oh my god , I thought he'd grow out of it soon!

Jodie, for his brother to sleep with him would mean his brother giving up his own room and moving in with ds2. It took years for ds1 to sleep well and now that he does I don't want him disturbed more than he is just now. Also they have different bed times and the wee one would just lie awake asking when the older one is coming to bed, also we've tried to encourage ds1 to read at night and the light would keep ds2 awake. Unfortunately we have no space in this house and no way of accomodating both boys in 1 room with out throwing out half the furniture in ds2's room to make way for ds1.

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MarmadukeScarlet · 15/01/2009 09:55

Once he is asleep does he stay asleep?

Only asking because Melatonin (which ime can only be prescribed by a Consultant, not a GP, as it is unlicensed) is only active for the first 2-3 hours.

I have great symapathy, I have a 4 yr old DS (SN~) who has sleep issues - both getting and staying asleep - and a 9 yr old DD who suffers from anxiety related sleep issues - unable to get to sleep, sleep walking, nightmares etc.

This was highly recommended on here the other day what to do when you dread your bed

Drum · 15/01/2009 10:05

I am going through similar problems with my DD1 at the moment. I took her to the doctors before Christmas as she was exhausted and he gave us some Vallergan ( a pre-med) in the hope that it would break the cycle. I am now going back to the doctors with her as it did help, but I was told to give her it for only five nights.

Before I went to the doctors I tried everything I could. You name it we tried it - dream catchers, Guatamalan worry people, meditation CDs etc. I think that I now need to ask for some form of talking cure.

Good luck. I will watch this thread with interest. I am now a lone parent duing the week and I really need my evenings back!

WilfSell · 15/01/2009 14:15

BTW, if you do think it is a kind of sleep phobia or anxiety problem, then the Anxiety UK website has lots of information and contacts with the latest research and researchers in this area. I just had a look at their website and they have a leaflet on sleep phobia and another on anxiety in children here.

They will also have resources on different types of therapy.

Jenbot · 15/01/2009 18:28

I was the same as a child. Worried about witches and monsters when young, then as I got older started worrying about mortality in general and the state of the world, or obsessing about random diseases.
God that makes me sound odd!
I just found it terribly hard to switch off my brain and after a while at night you end up thinking about the worst things... I never had any daytime problems.

I truly never slept more than 4 or 5 hours a night, I used to get up again once my parents were in bed and read by the light of the street lights. This was despite the fact that my dad naturally stayed up late and my mum naturally got up early and I was up with both of them. I used to make myself try to sleep at 4am because I knew by that time it was getting silly!

When did I grow out of it? Well, I stopped worrying so much about everything as an early teenager I guess, although I can't remember exactly when, but I still never really slept much at all until I was 24, when all of a sudden I could sleep for 8 hours or more. No idea why that changed! I hope it doesn't change back, I love my sleep now.

Original poster
ssd · 15/01/2009 20:27

seems a common problem. its something I don't discuss at the school gates as so many other mums look at me like I've got horns -"oh Fraser sleeps like a log, 12 hours a night" or something like that guaranteed to make you feel like crap

will click on those links and start reading up on this. I know he's getting anxious and worried and now he says he doesn;t need to sleep, only cos he can't get to sleep and lies worrying he'll get in trouble/is frightened/wee mind playing overtime.

TBH I don't want to take him to the drs and dh is dead against it, I don't think drugs are the answer for us, its either do our best to ease his fears or have him in my bed for yrs to come. Don't know why, but I just feel drugs aren't a long term answer.

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