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Baby who never naps, can I have some advice on the sleep thing, what can I do now which might pay off later?

61 replies

tenacityflux · 16/12/2008 22:20

Hello, my DD is 11 weeks and hasn't ever slept well, I know she's very little but I want to try something to get us into good habits. So far we have been trying a bed time routine which seems to combine lots of ideas I've gleaned in wide eyed frantic sleep deprived internet searching - I find I need a quiet evening to function, so we bath her at 5.30 to 6.30 (Not for an hour but just at some point during this time) and then she has her feed - she is breast fed the rest of the time but for some reason will never feed at this time, she gets upset and comes on and off the breast - so although we always try she usualy has a bottle of ebm and if she's really hungry, her only few oz of formula. Then I walk around winding her and telling her a story and put how down awake, with my hands on her and on her side and a musical toy playing. One time she went to sleep in ten mins, but the usual thing is I sit with her until she cries and keep my hands on her, if she doesn't calm down I pick her up and sooth her and put her down, when she is eventually quiet I sneak out - I hate her crying but I have my hands on her and I never leave her until she is asleep - I'm hopping she will eventually link the music to sleep time and be able to go to sleep without much more. Tonight she was hard to settle and woke up twice more but that is ( I hope) unususal - she is then usually asleep until midnight when she wakes for a feed and I then take her into my bed where she sleeps and feeds the rest of the night. I Know I should probably try and make her settle again at 12, but my DH has a driving job which means he has to get up early and he needs to sleep, so we've decided this is better for now as I would rather he got sleep and didn't cause a motorway pile up. But during the day, DD will sit happily in her day bed looking at the world for an hour or more, yawning away, but won't ever sleep, just eventually cries. I feed her lying down sometimes but she rarely falls asleep feeding, if she does it's for 5 mins tops; the only way she will sleep during the day is the baby sling - and then she will complain about being put in if she's tired and fights sleeping. Everyone says napping is essential but I don't see how I can get her to nap without her screaming, and so far even my hands on screaming technique hasn't come close to getting her to nap. I'm hoping that she she's bigger/eating more she will gradually push the midnight feed back, especially if we move her bed time back a little, but should I continue having two day time sling naps with her to get her used to the idea that napping is good? Sorry this is such a long post, and very me me me, but I feel like such a novice!

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tenacityflux · 18/12/2008 10:16

She slept until 1.45 then I fed her, she did take BF and a tiny bit of ebm and then I lay down with her but she was sucking on me, she got more and more frantic but not feeding coming off after a suck and fussing to go on again, but she wouldn't just suck, so in the end after an hour I took her next door, by which I mean the nursery not the neighbors - and tried sleeping on the floor in a pile of duvets with her so as not to wake DH, but then she started screaming, I kept winding her and holding her but she didn't stop until DH got up anyway and rocked her and we put her back in her cot at 4.00 am and I rocked her until she was asleep at 4.30 and I got some sleep - but I get so stupidly upset, I hate myself when I do, I'm holding her and crying and crying like a worse baby, how can I get a grip????? I have managed to get up at 8 and fed her, but she still comes on and off my breast, I guess she has enough? and she's in the sling at 10 and is basically asleep, trying to get her to nap every two hours, oh well, she bringing up feed again, oh sigh.

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Aitch · 18/12/2008 11:36

poor you. we had a rough night as well with wind and hunger, dd2 didn't sleep until 4.50am... gah. it's very draining. she's in her swingy chair now, asleep. do you have one of them, ten? we have this one www.ciao.co.uk/Fisher_Price_Deluxe_Take_Along_Swing__5644957

SleeplessinSwansea · 18/12/2008 11:42

Poor darling..you sound wrecked! Don't worry, it does get better. The coming on and off the breast-thing...do you have a breast-feeding counsellor (from La Leche) or a local support group you could consult? Might be a latching issue?

kittywise · 18/12/2008 11:47

"people are idiots, they just want to Say Something. i love it when they ask 'is she a good baby?' as if you're ever going to turn round and reply 'well, no, actually, we're thinking of returning her'. "

Actually Aitch,I always ask people if their babies are "good"!!! I find they are very relieved to be given a chance to talk about the shit time they are having.

My 20 month old is a nightmare and has been since birth and I have no problem telling people so if they ask if he's good.

Some babies give you are really hard time and some are a doddle.

Aitch · 18/12/2008 13:15

oh well, kittywise, since you brought it back to that... i find the idea of asking whether a baby is 'good' utterly nonsensical. a baby is a baby, some will sleep well, some won't. are the ones who don't sleep 'bad' babies? how awful.

kittywise · 18/12/2008 14:17

Aitch but everyone knows what is meant by 'good' I find it really strange that it should bother you .

Aitch · 18/12/2008 14:26

no, you're assuming something there and you've no right to. the opposite of good is bad. if someone is already tired and overwhelmed by being a new mum, basically getting them to admit that their baby is 'not good' ie bad could tip someone right over the edge. i think it's a spectacularly insensitive question, always have.

soremummy · 18/12/2008 14:36

sorry for hijack ..what did she weigh when you went to paeds appt Aitch? Don't get too concerned with the weight at 19 months now my dd weighs 15lb 12 . At 15 weeks she was 7lb 1 oz, She was about the same birth weight as your lo 4lb 3

Aitch · 18/12/2008 14:40

oh really? that IS comforting. dd was 4lbs 1 and now at 15 weeks (9 corrected) she's 7lb 7 (ish, that was in a vest and nappy for some reason). she's not putting on much, but the paed said we just have to keep doing what we're doing. i do wish she fed better, but the bfcs all say it's fine.

Aitch · 18/12/2008 14:40

PS i think it's been hijacked repeatedly. hope tenacity is okay with that, it's the MN way.

soremummy · 18/12/2008 14:42

cat me anytime your concerned re weight we have her weighed every 4 weeks to keep everyone happy and I havent been to paeds because I did all that with my other dd and there wasnt anything wrong with her. So we have an agreement that until she actually looses weight I wont go for a referral

kittywise · 18/12/2008 14:52

I disagree aitch it's just an expression, there's nothing to read into it.

tenacityflux · 18/12/2008 15:59

Now we've had a one hour screaming fit from her and me, I have phoned the LL woman but could only leave an answer - I had to leave her to scream as I was getting frantic - for 2 mins to gather myself - then I took her to bed and tried skin to skin and finally she fed lying down for an hour without fussing. I was hoping she would nurse to sleep but she didn't, despite us being so lovely and snuggly, so in the end I slipped her into the sling and she's had an hour, she screamed in her sleep after half an hour but carried on sleeping after a min. Might try having her take another nap instead of her bed time, eat supper,and then bath and bedtime later, just in case she goes to sleep more over night, worth a shot although I really need some time baby free in the evening and with this plan, won't get it.God, I feel so rubbish, I love her so much and her crying rips me up.

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tenacityflux · 18/12/2008 16:03

and don't worry about the hi-jack, although I feel a bit like the dreary goth stuck in the corner of the party.....hello, can you feel my pain, can you???Life is short and fleeting....Lucricia my reflection dance the ghost with me.....

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SixSpotBurNativity · 18/12/2008 16:08

tenacityflux - it is very hard, isn't it

i do remember days (and nights) like this with all my three

it does get better honestly!

take care of yourself, you're not rubbish, it sounds like you are doing a fantastic job!

Aitch · 18/12/2008 16:27

kittywise, it's just an expression to YOU. but not to everyone. and you don't know how people feel inside when they hear you say it. i grit my teeth every time, for example, and say 'yes', regardless of whether i've had a bad night because it doesn't mean she's not a 'good baby' if she's got colic.

tenacity, i don't know much about much but have you looked into silent reflux at all? i mean there's crying and crying, and it does sound like your wee baby is more the latter. do you get the feeling she's in pain?

tenacityflux · 18/12/2008 16:49

The doctor suggested this and pescribed six doses of infant Gaviscon in a bottle of formula, when I pointed out I was breast feeding and this would end my supply, he just sort of stared at me. So I began by giving it to her in a little boiled water and after two days she was so constipated it was that which made her scream and cry, I haven't really found anything else to try and cope with it,any advice gratefully listend to!

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Aitch · 18/12/2008 20:32

you should start a thread, all answers lie here...

tenacityflux · 18/12/2008 21:54

i just wish i wasn't reduced to a crying wreck every hour

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Aitch · 18/12/2008 21:55

oh sweetheart, you sound exhausted. can you express and Get Out of the house for an evening. just for a glass of wine with a mate, could give you a wee lift?

Habbibu · 18/12/2008 21:58

Oh dear. Wish I had some more advice other than the true, but not terribly-useful-right-now "this will pass, and you'll look back with amazement that it was ever like that".

It is hard when you're so tired to deal with what seems like endless crying. Can you have a bath with music on, while dp carries her in the sling?

tenacityflux · 18/12/2008 22:58

Oh, it's ok, my friends all live too far away to make it possible, and I can't face people much at the moment, I have a Christmas Lunch on Saturday which will be a bit of an ordeal,well, it will be ok when i get there but the thought of it dosn't fill me with much joy even though it will be some of my best friends. What I can't stand is that for a few nights last week, it started to work, she went to sleep at 7 after half an hour and just a little 3 min cry, then no cry at all, and we had the whole evening together and she woke at 12 and I fed her in bed all night and slept and I was really starting to relax and feel I could cope and really enjoy it, and it's got worse; she rarely feeds peacefully and I love breast feeding, and I am so worried she will start loosing weight and all the pressure to mix feed will be back on. I keep reading about this thing of over supply of fore milk and amy trying to block feed to get more of the hind milk, but either that's not the problem or I'm just producing nothing but water.Oh well.

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Habbibu · 18/12/2008 23:12

Oh, it is just Brutal when they do that - the whole false sense of security thing is a cruel joke.

I don't know so much about the foremilk/hindmilk thing; problem is, when you're worried you want to analyse anything (or at least I do). I do recall dd - who was a good feeder - going through a really fussy phase which was only solved by switching sides every 5 mins for hours (she'd feed 5-10 pm solidly until she was about 5.5 mo - older, probably). This went on for a while, but did work. Don't suppose that helps you at all...

Aitch · 18/12/2008 23:23

in order to keep feeding dd2 i have to switch feed all the time. like swap breasts every few minutes and just HOPE to christ that she'll get on and stay on for a wee while and get going. if (and it is an IF) she kinda gets one or both breasts a bit floopy then i have to hope that she got some of the higher fat stuff, but it is also something i worry about i must say... i just wish she was one of those babies who went on and stayed on. she also never gets that milk-drunk thing unless she has formula. i was pressurised to top up with formula with dd1 and it wrecked my bfing, so it's something i rarely do.

did you say you had a swing? it is imo a good thing. and dd2 does sleep quite well in her amby hammock. also, does she have a dummy? dd2 has one... i'd never get anythign done without it and the sling. still, at least she loves her mother.

Aitch · 18/12/2008 23:24

meant to say... tiktok told me not to worry about the fat content stuff, that it all comes out in the wash. hope that helps a bit.

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