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Original poster

Non sleeping DETERMINED baby, how do we crack this? Or do we just never sleep again?

60 replies

WideWebWitch · 03/03/2005 21:29

Dd is 15 months. I look like a vampire, I'm haggard and feel a hundred. I think she's slept at some point during the last year but I'm damned if I can remember it.

We've just tried controlled crying, by which I mean I cuddled her, put her down in her cot, and left the room but only went as far as outside the room and kept going back to let her know I was there. From 8-8.30 she screamed, so I went in every couple of minutes, reassured her, lay her back down again and left the room. I was doing this for 45 minutes and she was still going, screaming, she is hardcore.

I then looked down at my clothes and saw BLOOD! She had somehow hurt herself, I think probably by banging her mouth against the side of her cot in rage. I didn't hear her do this or hear anything other than screaming. It was like a horror film, her face was covered in blood. So we cleaned her up, cuddled her, (she calmed down as soon as I picked her up, I really don't think there is anything wrong with her, it looked worse than it was) and put her back down again but I feel awful and don't know what to do now. She is asleep now because she wore herself out with screaming. We have got to sleep, she has got to learn to sleep but she is SO determined, she's made herself sick before and now she's hurting herself! Wtf do we do? Even if she does come in with us she doesn't sleep well so co sleeping isn't going to solve this. Did anyone else have a determined mad one like this? TIA for any advice, links to other threads, tips, sympathy, anything.

(PLEASE, I don't want to debate controlled crying, I agree with it but I don't want to upset any of us any more than necessary. I am all for trying a softer version where I don't leave the room). The person who's cried more than anyone over this non sleeping is me.

OP posts:
littlerach · 04/03/2005 09:43

WWW, we used medised for DD1, and it seemed to help her sleep all night, maybe it helps them to sleep, then they don't wake as easily. GP told me that if you don't give the full dose then it can have opp effect.

Gradual withdrawal worked in the end for DD1, though looking back she was an angel compared to DD2 who keeps us up much of the night. I was too soft for CC, so DH tried GW and it did work, though may have taken longer.

You have my sympathy as DD2 is a PITA when it comes to sleeping!!

stripey · 04/03/2005 09:47

Hi not sure if you have had this advice but a comment reminded me of what we did with ds1 when it was a nightmare putting him to bed (think he was around 9 mths but it also worked when we were on holiday and jet lagged at 19mths).

We had a chair in his room - you could sit on the bed. The room should be dark, put baby in cot and say "it is time to go to sleep now". Don't make any eye contact, lie the child down and sit on the bed. After a few minutes if the child is standing up crying etc just walk over again lie them down and say the same thing "it is time to go to sleep now" again no eye contact or anything just go back and sit on the bed don't look over. Repeat this every 5 mins or so and it should work eventually once the child realises this will keep happening until they lie down and go to sleep. As I say it did work for us and you are not outside the room wondering what is going on.

Good luck

Original poster
WideWebWitch · 04/03/2005 10:15

Stripey, I think that's what we're going to do tonight. She is asleep now and I'm relieved tbh as she was AWFUL, so, so tired she didn't know what to do with herself, throwing herself on the floor, crying, really beside herself. So I'll let her have her sleep now and then she won't sleep the rest of the day if I can help it. I know it's not ideal as we want sleep at this time reattached to the night time but actually, she needs it I think. Pipsy, I think dd has also had enough sleep to be on for a good old scream at 3am! Grrr! ggglimpopo, thanks, I will try out Phenergan during the day before I do it at night. I haven't got any so I'll see how we get on with the cc this we and if it doesn't work on Monday she probably gets the drugs. Littlerach what's GW?

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pipsy1 · 04/03/2005 10:18

DD has been awake since 4am today, gave up hoping she's go back to sleep and got her up about quarter to 6. And she's still up now.
I am exhausted, ahy isn't she! And typical I have a Sains delivery booked so can't even rest while she does. Thats if it can get through in the snow....
Phenergan tonight I think

dinosaur · 04/03/2005 10:19

All sympathy www. Trying to sleep-train seven month old DS3, has been going quite well but last night was a bit of a backward step and so I feel grotty today.

flashingnose · 04/03/2005 10:27

God this brings back memories . We've had this at various times with all of ours and the following worked (but for different children IYSWIM):

  • Sit by the cot in darkened room, say nothing, no eye contact until they go to sleep. Next night, sit further away until you're sitting by the door. Then try outside the door. Warning - this is very time consuming.

  • Use Medised for a week to break the cycle. Has worked for all of them when they've got into bad habits.

  • Leave them to cry () - like SP, with ds, it would just rev him up again and it would go on for ages. The first time we did it was horrible (over an hour ) but once he realised there really wasn't any point in screaming, he didn't bother (honestly).

HTH - it's awful and you have my full sympathy.

pipsy1 · 04/03/2005 10:59

I would agree for all these methods when it is getting to sleep that is the problem, but for middle of the night/early morning waking it just doesn't work IMO

flashingnose · 04/03/2005 13:35

pipsy, would go for SP's method for middle of the night waking.

Pamina3 · 04/03/2005 13:40

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ionesmum · 04/03/2005 15:20

yes, www, I rarely get mor ethan three hour's continual sleep, and about five or six all told. Dd2 is still b/feeding so if I'm there she assumes the bar is open - eithe rthat or I'm a giant dummy. Which is why I want her to have her own room, so that sh ewon't be able to see/smell me...they say it's like being in a room with frying bacon is to us! Good luck for tonight!

chipmonkey · 04/03/2005 16:12

www can't remember the name of the programme but it was that nanny (jo somebody) who goes to peoples houses and tells them what they're doing wrong. They had twins and so far as I remember the controlled crying took several hours the first night. So its hard but you have to persevere! I remember doing it with ds1 when we wer on hols and eventually when I said for the 5th time, "lie down and go to sleep" he just said "yeah" and lay down like a lamb! He was fine after that.

littlerach · 04/03/2005 17:24

GW is gradual withdrawal.

Original poster
WideWebWitch · 04/03/2005 23:06

Thank you! Dp is doing the night tonight so I'm off to bed in a minute ON MY OWN! How exciting. My turn tomorrow night. We're doing putting her back lying down again and again and again for however long it takes until she gets the message. I'll let you know how we got on. Really appreciate all the sympathy and advice, thank you.

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alaughingcow · 04/03/2005 23:14

www i haven't read all the replies, so sorry if i'm going over old ground here. My dd hates sleep too, and i tried the cc but it wore me out so much that after a fortnight I couldn't hack it anymore and gave up.

Then I decided I'd let her play in her cot with me during the day. I put some cuddlies in, a couple of books and some soft building blocks and played with her in there, gradually increasing the time spent.

Then i'd leave her with the toys to play with and go to the bathroom for a couple of mins, then return and resume play.

After a couple of weeks, when I left to go to the bathroom, she fell asleep.

Then I started putting her in there at night 30 mins before I wanted her bedtime to be and letting her play and I pottered about in her room, our room and the bathroom until she fell asleep.

4 months on and she kinda asks to go to bed now (she is now 13 months)

Sorry, this was a bit long winded but I just wondered if it might help you.

mrspink27 · 04/03/2005 23:27

have you tried the pick up put down thing... its Tracey Hogg's technique and i have heard it is really successful. The series has been on discovery health and there is a book called secrets of the baby whisperer.
good luck.

pipsy1 · 05/03/2005 08:52

To be honest when my DD wakes at 4 or 5 I'm pretty sure she has just had enough sleep for the night and is ready for morning. Desperately annoying, but I think the most I can hope for is that she learns to play in her cot by herself for a bit. She is not great at entertaining herself at all though so will have to start pushing that one in the day, and then maybe putting her in a bed so she has the run of her bedroom when she awakes

Original poster
WideWebWitch · 05/03/2005 09:47

Dp did last night. She took 40 minutes to go to sleep in her cot and he stayed in the room on a chair. No blood, phew! She woke about 3 times and stayed awake slightly less each time, he did the same, put her back lying down until she got the message. She then woke at 6am, so it's better. I'm doing tonight so fingers crossed it'll be even easier.

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Cod · 05/03/2005 09:47

Message withdrawn

throckenholt · 05/03/2005 09:51

haven't tiem to read the rest - but just wanted to say that the first couple of nights are usually the worst - then suddenly they get the idea and it is done.

A bit gentler way is to sit in the room with her with the light out, soothe her verbally every time she cries and gradually move across the room, until you get out of the door and down the stairs. I did this and it took a few days and maybe up to an hour the first day - but it did work.

pipsy1 · 05/03/2005 17:43

Lucky you www, or lucky mr www rather! Unfortunately when DD wakes up she just screams and screams - no amount of putting back down works - and believe me we have tried for hours and for nights! Still, be thankful for what we have got, she goes down like a dream at 7pm

Original poster
WideWebWitch · 06/03/2005 09:02

Yay! Last night she slept from 7.30pm to 5.30am this morning and only woke once, at 10.30, it took 3 goes at lying her down and then she went back to sleep. So it's working! YES! 5.30 is too early, going to have to work on that I think but woo hoo! (this will jinx it won;t it?!)

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pipsy1 · 06/03/2005 09:50

Het that's brilliant! Its just ours then who doesn't respond to the lying back down approach! Although to b fair she does if it is early in the night just not at 4am when she has had sufficient sleep. However I was in spare room with ear plugs so didn't hear a think til I had champers and brekkie in bed brought up for Mothers Day!

Munchkinola · 06/03/2005 10:02

Oh well done WWW

Your jinx comment made me smile. My dd is 14 months and has nights where she finds it hard to stay asleep. She screams awake at same time each evening unless I manage to break the cycle. Just when I think she has cracked it and I tell people ooooh she has slept through for 3 nights it all starts again!

Good luck for tonight.

stripey · 06/03/2005 10:59

Congratulations www hope it keeps working.

Original poster
WideWebWitch · 07/03/2005 12:34

Shite night last night. She only took 5 minutes to go to sleep from being put down awake. Then woke at 4.30am. We kept sitting by her and putting her down but she didn't go back to sleep. At 6am she got a bottle. We'll keep going tonight. Thanks for listening.

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