Non sleeping DETERMINED baby, how do we crack this? Or do we just never sleep again?

[WideWebWitch]

Dd is 15 months. I look like a vampire, I'm haggard and feel a hundred. I think she's slept at some point during the last year but I'm damned if I can remember it.

We've just tried controlled crying, by which I mean I cuddled her, put her down in her cot, and left the room but only went as far as outside the room and kept going back to let her know I was there. From 8-8.30 she screamed, so I went in every couple of minutes, reassured her, lay her back down again and left the room. I was doing this for 45 minutes and she was still going, screaming, she is hardcore.

I then looked down at my clothes and saw BLOOD! She had somehow hurt herself, I think probably by banging her mouth against the side of her cot in rage. I didn't hear her do this or hear anything other than screaming. It was like a horror film, her face was covered in blood. So we cleaned her up, cuddled her, (she calmed down as soon as I picked her up, I really don't think there is anything wrong with her, it looked worse than it was) and put her back down again but I feel awful and don't know what to do now. She is asleep now because she wore herself out with screaming. We have got to sleep, she has got to learn to sleep but she is SO determined, she's made herself sick before and now she's hurting herself! Wtf do we do? Even if she does come in with us she doesn't sleep well so co sleeping isn't going to solve this. Did anyone else have a determined mad one like this? TIA for any advice, links to other threads, tips, sympathy, anything.

(PLEASE, I don't want to debate controlled crying, I agree with it but I don't want to upset any of us any more than necessary. I am all for trying a softer version where I don't leave the room). The person who's cried more than anyone over this non sleeping is me.

[dinosaur]

Really pleased for you www!

[WideWebWitch]

Elliott, no, but my ds would sleep through a bomb going off so we're lucky like that, he wakes about 7am.

[elliott]

www does she wake up ds at 5.30 too? We are about to try again with putting them in the same room...

[WideWebWitch]

Another update in case it helps someone. After a couple of good nights we had a couple of bad ones but persisted in lying her back down again and again. Ds is now sharing a room with her and we are in the other room. Last night she stirred, cried and GOT HERSELF BACK to sleep! Hoorah! She's still waking at 5.30am (5.45am this morning so going in the right direction) but I can live with that for the moment as long as she sleeps all night. Day time sleep is 1 hour and we've tried to make it 1-2pm ish.

[elliott]

www sorry I missed this - not that I have anything particlarly useful to contribute - only to say that it must be really hard to try and sleep train while you are in the same room (we can't get our two into the same room for this reason - but at least we do have a cubby hole ds2 can sleep in for a few months more). Personally I'd be tempted to camp out in the front room for a few nights if at all feasible. But you seem to be on an upward curve so lets hope it helps. Are you going to put dd in with ds yet? Its possible she might sleep better in with him than in with you....

[Bozza]

Just make sure you don't let it slide www.

[littlerach]

hurrah!!!!

[WideWebWitch]

For anyone who's interested (that'll probably be just me then!) she slept last night AND the night before from 7,30 - 6am. Both nights she stirred at 10.30pm but got herself back to sleep. I know I mustn't speak too soon or be smug but I'm so pleased so far. Thanks for all the moral support and advice posted, it was incredibly useful.

[TiredBunny]

Take lots of deep breaths before you go into her.... sounds a bit daft but i am sure it helps!

[throckenholt]

it takes time - you will get there soon

[WideWebWitch]

Shite night last night. She only took 5 minutes to go to sleep from being put down awake. Then woke at 4.30am. We kept sitting by her and putting her down but she didn't go back to sleep. At 6am she got a bottle. We'll keep going tonight. Thanks for listening.

[stripey]

Congratulations www hope it keeps working.

[Munchkinola]

Oh well done WWW

Your jinx comment made me smile. My dd is 14 months and has nights where she finds it hard to stay asleep. She screams awake at same time each evening unless I manage to break the cycle. Just when I think she has cracked it and I tell people ooooh she has slept through for 3 nights it all starts again!

Good luck for tonight.

[pipsy1]

Het that's brilliant! Its just ours then who doesn't respond to the lying back down approach! Although to b fair she does if it is early in the night just not at 4am when she has had sufficient sleep. However I was in spare room with ear plugs so didn't hear a think til I had champers and brekkie in bed brought up for Mothers Day!

[WideWebWitch]

Yay! Last night she slept from 7.30pm to 5.30am this morning and only woke once, at 10.30, it took 3 goes at lying her down and then she went back to sleep. So it's working! YES! 5.30 is too early, going to have to work on that I think but woo hoo! (this will jinx it won;t it?!)

[pipsy1]

Lucky you www, or lucky mr www rather! Unfortunately when DD wakes up she just screams and screams - no amount of putting back down works - and believe me we have tried for hours and for nights! Still, be thankful for what we have got, she goes down like a dream at 7pm

[throckenholt]

haven't tiem to read the rest - but just wanted to say that the first couple of nights are usually the worst - then suddenly they get the idea and it is done.

A bit gentler way is to sit in the room with her with the light out, soothe her verbally every time she cries and gradually move across the room, until you get out of the door and down the stairs. I did this and it took a few days and maybe up to an hour the first day - but it did work.

[Cod]

Message withdrawn

[WideWebWitch]

Dp did last night. She took 40 minutes to go to sleep in her cot and he stayed in the room on a chair. No blood, phew! She woke about 3 times and stayed awake slightly less each time, he did the same, put her back lying down until she got the message. She then woke at 6am, so it's better. I'm doing tonight so fingers crossed it'll be even easier.

[pipsy1]

To be honest when my DD wakes at 4 or 5 I'm pretty sure she has just had enough sleep for the night and is ready for morning. Desperately annoying, but I think the most I can hope for is that she learns to play in her cot by herself for a bit. She is not great at entertaining herself at all though so will have to start pushing that one in the day, and then maybe putting her in a bed so she has the run of her bedroom when she awakes

[mrspink27]

have you tried the pick up put down thing... its Tracey Hogg's technique and i have heard it is really successful. The series has been on discovery health and there is a book called secrets of the baby whisperer.
good luck.

[alaughingcow]

www i haven't read all the replies, so sorry if i'm going over old ground here. My dd hates sleep too, and i tried the cc but it wore me out so much that after a fortnight I couldn't hack it anymore and gave up.

Then I decided I'd let her play in her cot with me during the day. I put some cuddlies in, a couple of books and some soft building blocks and played with her in there, gradually increasing the time spent.

Then i'd leave her with the toys to play with and go to the bathroom for a couple of mins, then return and resume play.

After a couple of weeks, when I left to go to the bathroom, she fell asleep.

Then I started putting her in there at night 30 mins before I wanted her bedtime to be and letting her play and I pottered about in her room, our room and the bathroom until she fell asleep.

4 months on and she kinda asks to go to bed now (she is now 13 months)

Sorry, this was a bit long winded but I just wondered if it might help you.

[WideWebWitch]

Thank you! Dp is doing the night tonight so I'm off to bed in a minute ON MY OWN! How exciting. My turn tomorrow night. We're doing putting her back lying down again and again and again for however long it takes until she gets the message. I'll let you know how we got on. Really appreciate all the sympathy and advice, thank you.

[littlerach]

GW is gradual withdrawal.

[chipmonkey]

www can't remember the name of the programme but it was that nanny (jo somebody) who goes to peoples houses and tells them what they're doing wrong. They had twins and so far as I remember the controlled crying took several hours the first night. So its hard but you have to persevere! I remember doing it with ds1 when we wer on hols and eventually when I said for the 5th time, "lie down and go to sleep" he just said "yeah" and lay down like a lamb! He was fine after that.