Please help. I cannot do this anymore. I am afraid I might snap if things do not get easier.

[ElfOnTheTopShelf]

I have posted before about my daughter. She is three in October.
She was b/fed until 18 months so used to fall asleep on the breast until then. Until she was two, we used to lie on my bed to get her to sleep. For the last nine months we have been trying to get her to sleep in her own room. Its a fecking nightmare.
She refuses to sleep without somebody asleep in the room with her. Typically me - she doesn't want anybody but me at night time.
I have to sit next to her, sometimes she'll beg me to hold her hand, put my hand on her tummy, let her rest on my hand etc to go to sleep.
We have tried controlled crying, but she makes herself sick, every night we tried she screamed so much that she made herself sick, after about six nights, I've ran out of bedding and patience.
If I leave the room, she screams and becomes hysterical. And as time is going on, I too am getting hysterical. I cannot do this anymore. I know I am going to end up snapping and I do not want to hurt her. I just want her to go to sleep.
We have tried to get her more involved in her room - we got her to pick out new things for her "special room" including bedding for her bed, we've let her make it her space, but she just wont go to sleep. It can take at least an hour of me sitting next to her to go to sleep.
Please help. Do I just gate her in her bedroom, grit my teeth and stand in the kitchen?
I'm struggling, I really am.
I love her so much, but I just want to be able to say "sleep time" and her go to sleep without it turning into a massive battle.

You're not a shite mum, you're a great mum because you're here, looking for help because your daughter's happiness is important to you.

I feel for you so, so much, and I really identify so much with the feelings of frustration and anger. I wish I could help you somehow

Stop that, Elf. You are not a shite mum. DH and I had our worst rows over this. Sleep problems are very hard to live with.
I would go with it for as week or so, and then try reading again.

feeling overwhelmed by intense needs from children is really normal
you don't need guilt on top of everything else!
I think it would make you all happier if you temporarily let this happen and let her have you there again while she falls asleep
then do what you did at Christmas again when she is more settled and you have lost that frantic feeling
the mindset of 'she SHOULD be able to do it' is so destructive to your self esteem as a good parent, and prevents you from acting responsively to her actual needs at this time
she is telling you loud and clear that she really needs you there now
it won't last for ever
find ways to save your sanity while it is happening!

DH is working away at the minute during the week, not that she entertains him of an evening (though she does allow him to go in the bath with her, I get weekend bathtimes).

The WORST thing is that during nap time in the day, the CM can lay her on the sofa and say "sleep time Evelyn" and off she goes to sleep, no fuss, no muss. Why cant I get that going at home?

Oh Elf, you're certainly not a shite mum. It is a vicious circle, though - you're tense (very understandably) at bedtime, she picks up on that because she's a bright little thing and that's just what they do, and wants extra attention, etc etc. How about a radio with earphones? Radio 7 has good comedy on if you have digital radio, and it's just to give you something else to think about. And leave a book in her room so that when she does fall asleep you're not desperate to get out, but read and relax and leave calmly after an hour or so of not clock-watching? Sorry if this is all obvious stuff - you are having such a tough time, but you're clearly a lovely, caring, mother.

Oh my goodness, not a shite mum at all.

I have never had this problem but I do have other (less difficult) problems with my DD that I have wrung myself out over. I have come to the conclusion that this particular behaviour is just her at this time and if we all just step away from the issue and let her get a little older and a little more confident, the issue will eventually resolve itself.

Now the issues I struggle with with DD are not as detrimental to my own life as yours are (you are obviously exhausted physically and emotionally) so it's not really a fair comparison but I think you really need to give yourself a break. You may not be able to fix this right now. That does not make you a bad mum. It makes you a great but worried and exhausted mum.

Please don't worry that you are failing somehow. You are not. But you might all need a little distance on the problem.

Elf- any chance of cutting down on/ stopping altogether the afternoon nap?

sorry, that sounded like a total cop out crap post. I really feel for you though

Because her CM isn't her world! You're the one she adores, not her CM. Shame that this is how the little loves express their love! But Franny is right. Find a way to not mind being there so much - play some music, listen to radio, drink some wine, and find a way back gently.

You are a brill mum!

had a little bit of this with DD (now 4) and I got a duvet and folded it up and put it on the floor next to Dds bed, and I lay down on it and used to nod off. DD wanted me to sing to her and hold her hand, but I just matter of factly told her that I Could stay and sing IF I lay down, otherwise I wasn't going to be able to stay as I was tired. That she could choose. I used to lie down and sing twinkle twinkle about 20 times over and over again - yawn. I brought a drink of water in with me, and sometimes, I would go to sleep beside her... sloping out at about 10pm..

Now I sing one or two songs a night when she's in bed, getting the room ready, curtains etc.. and then say 'I'm off to my own bed, and it's time to sleep. I can't stay in here with you, this is your room, and I need to go to bed also.'
Fingers crossed, it's worked for me.

Big hugs your way - I feel your pain.

Elf, that all sounds so tough. Could you start off with accepting that you're going to be there, but maybe just being a little tougher about the holding ears / hands etc?
So, maybe choose a position to sit in, hold her hand, but don't talk anymore once you've said goodnight and don't shift about? With Habbibu's book and radio suggestions?

We tried cutting the nap times, she used to have long naps in the middle of the day, so we cut those down. With the CM she might sleep for 20 mins, with us she may have an hour, she used to have longer. We have tried no nap at all, but that (I think) made it worse!

deffo cut out the daytime sleep

it total?

I really feel for you elf. Bedtime comes at the worst time of the day when you just want them to go to sleep! I remember saying to my sister when I had no intention of having no. 5 'If I had a 5th I think I'd be able to crack this sleep lark. Ds4 comes along and he's been the worse of the lot!'

I think there's been some good advice here. Pottering is one of my mum's favourites. I also tell mine I'm going to feed the cat and then I'll be back. Put some washing on and then I'll be back and so on. It must be exhausting for you. Hang in there x

Anyway, I really appreciate all your posts. I am going to go to bed now, I will re-read all the posts tomorrow when I am feeling a little more level headed.

Good luck, Elf. As i posted before, this time will pass

Re. naps - both of mine had stopped napping by your daughter's age. It means a couple of months of difficulty because they become very tired around 4pm and you have to use extreme cunning to keep them awake, but the upside is that they are usually completely exhausted by bedtime.

In your position, I would:

a) cut out the nap straight away
b) reconcile yourself to staying with her until she falls asleep for the next couple of months
c) maybe use that time to read up for yourself on some gentle sleep techniques and try to think about whether there are things like reward charts that might be a good incentive for her (Franny will hate that bit)
d) try again in a couple of months.

I know you're desperate for this to change NOW and I do understand how frustrating it is. But, as Franny says, she's is telling you very clearly that she wants you with her at the moment. As someone else said, whenever I've gone head-to-head with my DSs over something like this, I've found that backing down is the only way to find a solution that doesn't involve wringing their necks.

It's tough on you that you're dealing with this alone in the week though.

My suggestions to consider:

She is a good 2.5 so I would cut the naps totally.

strictly consistent routine at bedtime.

Make it very clear to your dd that you will stay in her bedroom in the evening for as long as she wants you to however you will be reading your book in a chair (with a glass of wine) - this is a starting point only. Chat to your dd about this lots, that you are going to sit by her until she's ready to go to sleep that it's no big deal if she wants you there that's fine (takes any power struggle out of the equation)

when in the room keep the consistent rule that she may have your presence but not your time & attention IYSWIM so if possible sit with your back to her and read your book - right next to her on the floor if possible.

Hopefully by cutting the naps she will be tired and get to sleep more quickly than she has been recently.

I would see the short term aim as giving your dd the reassurance that she needs that you are there and that you are happy to be there for her but there boundaries to your time & attention IYSWIM

If this works and reduces the stress level completely I think you would need to stick to it for several weeks before moving the chair/sitting position further away.

It would seem to me that your dd is feeling insecure and your stress & frustration is fueling that insecurity at the moment.

BTW I can 100% understand why you must feel like throttling her, that evening me-time space is so looked forward to and infringement of it is torture.

Hopefully you'll get lots of ideas to think through and come up with a workable plan that you're happy with.

x posts with policy wonk - I agree with everything she says.

Oops, posted a big reply and deleted it by mistake. Anyway, will try to cut this short and say your post sounds like myself exactly until our doctor/hospital prescribed melatonin (only from the govt."special pharmacy" BTW, not a health food shop!!)for our DS now aged 2. He has been taking this for the past 8 months and whilst he still wakes in the night (he has only slept through once ever - on the 30th June 2008!!!!) his getting to sleep is now problem-free. He seems to be able to finally switch off his brain with the help of melatonin and actually looks forward to bed - this took hours before and like you I was ready to almost harm him with exhaustion. CC did not work, and neither did the ignore- or PUPD-approach. I felt perpetually isolated and on the verge of cracking up most days and our family life suffered at the time - in particular between myself and my partner who would just have to sit by himself for hours whilst I sat with DS - usually in vain! Melatonin is not a drug as such, but if your child isn't producing enough at the right time then sleep will not happen. Lots of luck and support your way!

lily some of the things Elf has posted would indicate that her dd is capable of going to sleep fine by herself (ie at the childminders she lays down and goes to sleep, she used to sleep fine co-sleeping etc) so I think there are other issues going on rather than it being a lack of melatonin production.

I'm glad the drs took your dc problem seriously lack of melatonin production is a complete nightmare for everyone suffering!!! In case anyone else is reading this melatonin is available over the counter in USA & Australia because it is very useful in counteracting jet lag. I think your body produces melatonin during the day and is part of the triger needed to tell your brain when to go to sleep, and if you don't produce enough then you have difficulties in getting to sleep and getting enough sleep. (Lily correct me if that's wrong because it's a while since I was told about it)

Does your dd have a special teddy that she can cuddle? Perhaps you could go and buy her a new one, specifically to help her with this - instead of stroking your hair or holding your ear, or whatever.

The other thing to consider is that she may just not be tired (although if you cut out the nap perhaps this won't be true). My niece was like this when she was your age and in the end my brother and SIL just let her stay up until she fell asleep on the sofa with them.

Personally I didn't like this option as I always wanted adult time and felt that the children needed to recognise this, but then I was lucky and mine went to bed/sleep without problems. It worked for them and made their lives much less stressful.

You have my sympathy - lack of sleep is dreadful!

morning Elf how are thing this morning?

well, tonight seemed to be slightly less traumatic, I ended up working late (bummer) so didn't get back til half eight, and so I lay on the sofa with her (she didn't want to go to bed) and off she drifted.
Opted for the sofa tonight as we're stopping at my mum's.
Have told DH about this thread when I spoke to him last night, and so we're going to sit down and have a good read to come up with a plan.