Honest view on sleep training

[Emmajane1987]

Hi all,
I have a nearly 4 year old son and a 6 month old baby girl and they’re both driving me to the point of insanity/ depression with their terrible sleep.
We did a small amount of Cry it out with my son when he was about 7 months and it seemed to really work for about a year and a bit, but since turning 2.5 until now he’s been terrible. Multiple night wakings/ early mornings and now will only sleep in dad’s bed (but still wakes up etc)
Im in another room with the baby who was until about a month ago sleeping great. She now wakes up 6-7 times a night. I am absolutely exhausted/ depressed and feel suicidal most days just because I want some sleep.
Im considering cry it out or similar for the baby (god knows what I can do about the toddler now, feels too late)
some mum friends say to do it and that it worked for them really quickly. But also reading it can cause emotional stress/ damage to the developing brains. I have to survive and keep my sanity so I need sleep but equally I’m worried about damaging the kids development. Anyone have any experience in sleep training and if you think it’s ok or did it even work etc? I’m a wimp with crying so I’m not sure I can hack it anyway but I’m at my wits end, and dreading another night x

Speak to your health visitor or GP. Don't underestimate the long term effects on you suffering lack of sleep over a long period of time.
Wish I had taken more notice on getting dc to bed over the years.

People I know who sleep trained their kids all have normal healthy children.
I couldn’t do it. But I totally get why my friends did. And honestly - your kids won’t remember.

Check out Dr. Jay Gordon’s gentle sleep training op? You don’t have to leave them to cry for hours - you can do it bit by bit.

Read the chapter on sleep training in Emily oster’s book ‘cribsheet’. You need to do what’s necessary. I know lots of parents who’ve sleep trained; it doesn’t have to be full cry it out. You need to sleep yourself.

God I’d have lost it if I didn’t do sleep training

i was trying to work full time on a few hours broken sleep

sleep training only took a few nights and both kids were sleeping through

with the 4 year old we approach it different- had a reward chart for a while and when it goes to shit we just start again - and explain how it’s gonna go - books, into bed, we stay 5 mins do a timer then sit outside the door for 5 more mins then go

after a week sitting outside the door gets dropped and we all good with sleep again

baby we never let cry for more than 10 mins without popping in to reassure

now he just lies down and goes asleep no tears

im a better mum on better sleep too - I was starting to be the shouty stressy mum when I was sleep deprived

Do what you need to do OP. The evidence for sleep training causing emotional damage is not overly convincing in my opinion. However it’s clear that your kids will certainly suffer emotional damage and stress if you crash the car or have some accident because you’re too tired to function.

It’s likely we were all sleep trained through CIO and we are all ok?

The Ferber method worked for us.

I sleep trained both my kids when they were babies. They are now 21 and 19, perfectly well adjusted and I have a fantastic relationship with them.
when they were little, I needed the sleep as did they. I’ve not ‘broken’ my kids or my bond with them by doing it.

I sleep trained both my children. The first at 19 weeks, the second (who was a much bigger baby) at 16 weeks. It was that or go mad from lack of sleep. Both were breastfed. We followed the method recommended at the time. Put them down in the cot in their bedroom with a small nightlight on the landing to see by when you get up. Don't speak to them, turn the light on, or pick them up. Go in when they cry after five minutes, give a pat and then leave. Keep to five minute intervals until they stop crying and go back to sleep. It took three nights in each case.
What has been the long term effect? Well they are both very good sleepers. Got first class degrees. Happy and well adjusted adults.
Ignore those who claim it does damage. It's rubbish.
We teach our children all sorts of things and teaching them to sleep is no different.

Personally I think it’s barbaric. My first baby was a terrible sleeper (waking 8 times a night or more) didn’t sleep through a single night til over 18 months old. Torture. But I couldn’t sleep train as he was such a sensitive boy. He was distraught red and sick if I left him crying for more than 2 minutes. He could not cope.

have since had 2 more babies, both better sleepers but still not those people who say their babies slept through from 4 weeks old etc.

anyway I haven’t sleep trained any of mine and would never do it. DC1 sleeps beautifully now. DC2 is a toddler and sleeps through 6 nights a week. I just think it’s a season you need to get through. I still just think leaving babies to cry is awful.

Its worked for us twice. If you do it, follow a book (we did 'the happy sleeper by Heather turgeon and julie wright) rather than googling, as if you google you will come across a lot of articles saying it's evil.

Before committing to cry it out i looked everywhere and couldn't find any proven risks, however we could clearly see the risks of not doing it - poor sleep is so bad for your health.

I agree with @Tralalalama it’s pretty barbaric. You’re not really sleep training, it’s training your baby to give up hope that you are going to come back.

Don’t think twice. Sleep train. A suicidal mum due to lack of sleep is no use to her babies. I regret leaving sleep training so late. Didn’t do it until I was at absolute breaking point from
sleep deprivation when my breastfed daughter didn’t sleep for more than 4 hours at a time at 18 months. I didn’t have a second child simply because I couldn’t face the sleep deprivation again. However, if I did, I’d have sleep trained much much much earlier.

I know my parents generation all did and we turned out fine.

Are the posters calling it barbaric actually reading the OPs post where she says she feels suicidal most days due to the lack of sleep?!

Don’t be a martyr OP. You need sleep and your children need a mum who can actually give them quality time because she’s had some sleep. They don’t need a suicidal mum on the edge of sanity due to long term and chronic sleep deprivation.

You can do sleep training without leaving your baby to cry. We used a sleep consultant who was a friend of a friend and she managed to get our 14 month old from a child who woke every 1-2 hours to a child who sleeps from 7pm to 6am every night. Didn’t leave him in distress at all. She helped us for 2 weeks but actually it took 3 days. It was mostly just a lot of fine tuning of our routine - stuff that we were mostly doing a bit of but doing more. Earlier bedtime, dark room, very consistent bedtime routine, not feeding him to sleep etc. it cost us £350 which I appreciate not everyone has but it was fantastic. The thing that really stays with me was the consultant pointing out that it wasn’t just me that hadn’t slept for more than 2 straight hours in 14 months, it was him - and that’s not good for his development. Children need sleep and sometimes need support to get to sleep but leaving them to cry isn’t the only way to do it. I’m afraid I do think 6 months may be too young but definitely try with your 4 year old. Best of luck.

Don’t be so dramatic - of course it isn’t. Sleep training doesn’t mean you’re leaving a baby to cry for hours on end.

Sleep deprivation is literally a torture technique. If you’re suicidal something absolutely has to be done and I wouldn’t mess around with gentle methods that whilst they can be effective do take their time to work.

There’s no credible evidence that sleep training causes any issues for healthy kids being raised in normal loving homes. One of the studies that’s so often cited was in a soviet era romanian orphanage which whilst a very sad situation it is a completely pointless study group. Dr. Ferber of the famous Ferber controlled crying method is a paediatrician with decades researching and treating children’s sleep disorders. He knows his shit.

If you struggle with the crying get Dad to take the lead. Do Ferber/controlled crying with the baby and it should be sorted in 3 nights. Then think about tackling the older one but by being older you might have success with non cry methods like a gro clock and bribery.

Good luck a take care of yourself.

We’ll have to agree to disagree. It’s leaving a baby to cry and that’s just not good.

Is there some middle ground, anything else you can try first? Are you cosleeping with the baby? Tbh I'm with PPs who are against it, it's just not for me and I think sleep is developmental and kids just learn to do it. However I comfortably coslept with both of mine which meant I was able to sleep, so I'm not coming from the sleep deprived (as much) place as you so I'd say overall do what keeps you healthy. If you're feeling suicidal please speak to the GP.

I think with children it works with you don’t really need to leave them to cry. I tried sleep training my eldest on the HV advice because he was waking every 45 mins and he cries for 4 hours before I cracked. The next night it was the same and next. I gave up after that as I was even more tired. Child still doesn’t sleep and it’s in junior school now.
Didnt bother with the second as was only waking once at 12 months and was sleeping through by 19 months. That child just sleeps really easily.
I would try sleep training as sleep deprivation is horrendous, and you might be lucky and it might work in a few nights.

Nonsense. You go back every few minutes to reassure your baby.

I trained my first at the age of 3 years and it worked after two nights.

It was so worth it. I used the Ferber method.

DD is 41 now and absolutely fine. We love each other and she doesn't remember being sleep trained.

I’d say six months is too young for sleep training. You’re clearly really struggling so something has to be done.
Your husband needs to be stepping up. You need to be given huge chunks of time to get some sleep. He needs to be taking both the children out all Saturday morning so that you can get a few hours in. He needs to be dealing with them in the evening so that you can have a nap.
You’re a team and he’s letting you down.
The four year old can be given a gro clock and taken back to bed every time he gets up. Again, this needs to be done by your husband because your sleep is already too disrupted.

She’s suicidal.
And you bring up “giving up hope” and her “not coming back”.

Tone deaf.

Didn’t want to read and run - your kids need you here, do what you need to do to keep surviving for them. If that’s sleep training, more routine, or less, just do it. Don’t compare yourself to others and please don’t think they’d be better off without you - it’s never the case x

I sleep trained. It’s not brutal. I generally find even when they fall asleep in the car they have to have a little cry first, it seems crying and sleeping go hand in hand in our house. But it’s light.
my18 month old sleeps 12 hours every night, the odd night she wakes but she generally sleeps uninterrupted.
my almost 5 year old sleeps 11-11.5 hours each night. They sleep well, wake up rested and are very happy kids.
personally I think not teaching your kids to sleep is cruel to them and you. It never made sense to me. Children need to sleep, adults need to sleep. A few nights of discomfort for a lifetime of good sleep is well worth it

I feel your pain OP; all four of mine were poor sleepers and two were downright terrible. It’s a gruelling slog as a mother. I did a bit of sleep training with my oldest child but that was after establishing a bedtime routine and giving him tools to fall asleep on his own such as Ewan the Dream Sheep for white noise and he really liked a dummy at night and to be in a Grobag. Once I felt that he was ready to go to sleep on his own, I left him to it. The first couple of nights he cried for less than ten minutes then went to sleep. After that he went to sleep without crying. So I feel that he was ready to go to sleep on his own. If the crying had persisted for a longer time or more nights then I would have tried something else. So, in my opinion, sleep training can work well if the child is ready. My third child was by far the worst sleeper, it was brutal and like being tortured. In his case, it was due to undiagnosed dairy allergy so no amount of sleep training would have helped. I had to remove dairy from my diet before he could sleep better.