Issues with trying to get my son to just go to bed.

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It’s been years and I mean years of this.
it started around the time they went to infant school.

Kicking banging the door trying to come in, screaming at me.

in all fairness perhaps I was more relaxed before and we would have sleepovers on occasion but then all of a sudden they wouldn’t sleep in their own bed.

My mother at the time said it’s not on and I need to ensure he sleeps in his bed.

fast forward 4 years later
still same issues, Picks scabs comes in says they’re bleeding. says they need to poop,
says they’re going to be sick. The sick situation is a complete fixation atm and been going on for months ( of course they’re not sick and only happens at bedtime)
they also just stand there staring.

We have had issues when we moved and had a baby it got so bad I couldn’t place them back into their room to stop all this because they refused to even let us sleep. I couldn’t just pick them up and put them to bed.

I’d be shadowed around, We wasn’t allowed to sleep. Be woken up and prodded all hours of the night. Screamed at, door bashed in head butted nothing we tried would get through to them.

They said because they couldn’t sleep they felt we didn’t need to. As much as I cried and said how sleep deprived I was from working and being pregnant and then once I had our baby.

Im just so fed up. It’s not gotten as bad as it did around two years ago but it’s a constant battle. Every time I see their face at bedtime I’m triggered. Im at such a loss and don’t know what to do. I just don’t know how much longer I can take it.

don’t get me wrong there isn’t a choice I’m their mum but it’s just hard. I feel at such a loss.
in the day they’re fairly good get along with their sibling.
I’m just so exhausted of it all.

tried sticker charts,
rewards,
lots of nightlights and calm music, activity box, staying with them talking about issues ( would then not allow us to even leave)
being firm and taking things away. - still no tv or gaming to this day considering how angry and horrible they get.

im just so fed up. I don’t know where to go for help.

How old is he?

This sounds so tough, I'm sorry you're going through this. My sister has been experiencing the same issues with my neice for 13 years now. Shes lost 9 jobs because she hasn't been able to sleep due to her daughter. My neice has an adhd assessment on Friday as the GP thinks it may be due to this (along with some other issues). Have you been to the GP and explored whether it could be something else? I really hope things get better for you both, it cant be easy for your son either. Sending you a hug 🫂

DD was like this. I just gave up and let her sleep in my bed with me. So no advice sorry but I know what it’s like.

Almost 9 🤧

I truly feel for your sister. I can’t imagine being in that position and for so long. How is she handling it, do they have a good relationship otherwise? 🫂

Your son is 8 and you’re letting him rule your household?

Him waking you up is really out-of-pocket behaviour.

Is he ND? Any LDs?

Does he have empathy at any other times?

Have you asked your HV/doctor for help?

We haven’t let him per se. We’ve tried so many approaches. Being nice being firm, screamed at him once or twice over the years which I feel awful about. Maybe autistic I feel he doesn’t have much empathy but I also feel he is very selfish sometimes. His father is on the spectrum and people seem to think I am 🙈 I tried to get him assessed but they truly feel he isn’t and it’s just his age.

My daughter was a terrible sleeper, she didn’t stand and stare but we did have nights where she would scream and cry and it could go on for absolutely hours and hours. She had an ADHD assessment which was negative, tried CAHMS talking therapy but nothing worked. We eventually managed to get a paediatrician appointment and he prescribed melatonin and phenergan. Worked a treat. This was 3 years ago when DD was 8 and it changed both our lives. I think she’d gotten into such a habit it was too hard to break. Having the medication helped us to completely ‘reset’ bedtime and we both got some sleep. I think they may take her off it completely at her next appointment as she’s gone from a pretty high dose of both, now down to just 2mg melatonin.

I know medication isn’t the answer for everyone but it really worked here and made such a difference to our lives x

I literally say I don’t let him but as awful as it is he brings a great deal of stress when he is around. I feel the worst saying it. I just don’t know what to do I don’t want to feel this way but there’s no reasoning at all and it makes it so hard.

This is really good advice I feel it’s worth a shot. I’m so desperate because In the day he is a good kid. I love him. But I’m at the point he’s already been in 20 times it’s coming up to midnight and I’m just shouting at him to close the door and go to bed. He has no reason behind doing it just stands there and moans. I feel so horrific. I haven’t been shouting at him but with everything I’m going through tonight has been rough

How long has she been on medication, has it been a long term solution? Is she on it each night ? 🫂 xx

Its been very hard for them both. They have a lovely relationship, but there have been outburst from sister when she is truly fed up and at her wits end. Shes honestly tried everything. Like you, shes spend time sitting with her in her bed, talking, meditation, supplements, cutting down anything stimulating in the evenings. But nothing. Ive spoken with my neice about it and shes mentioned a few times the fear of being the last person awake in the house. She hasn't been able to stay at sleep overs. If she sleeps at mine, I've had tears throughout the night and she becomes distressed. Maybe after this assessment, something might come of it to help them both. I really hope something changes for you and things get better. All I can think to suggest is the GP, but its about finding one that will listen instead of talking about sleep hygiene and putting it down to purely a behavioural issue x

Have you tried talking to him and asking why he wakes you?

It sounds as if medication may be the way to go, to reset bedtime for you all. It sounds so hard to deal with - you have my sympathy.

His behaviour is beyond the ‘norm’.

There are lots of reasons to suspect autism so try and get started on the assessment pathway.

It doesn’t sound like he is doing this for fun so either you or DH should sleep with him. Make sure you do the whole sleep hygiene thing and regulation - lots of exercise and heavy work, no screens for 2 hours before bed, get him in sun light during the day, work on emotional regualtion, weighted blanket.

There will be a reason why he is doing this and he sounds very distressed.

How do you handle discipline during the day?
Treat it like bad behaviour and he has a consequence the next morning for his unacceptable behaviour.

Where is his father in all this?

When I was a child I was often terrified in bed at night. I never told anyone. I wonder if it could be that. Is it worth just getting a cheap mattress to put on your bedroom floor that he can come and sleep in when he wants to? That may relieve a bit of pressure and then eventually as time goes on he may choose to go to his own bed as he gets older and meanwhile hopefully you could all get some sleep and things be less fraught.

Such poor advice for a potentially ND child.

ND children shouldn't have boundaries put in place? Children shouldn't have consequences for bad behaviour if they could potentially have ND? I just said whatever system she has in place during the day she should apply it to this also.

This is hell for you. Some idea that you may or may not have tried

rearranging the bedroom and having a bedroom make over

check with the GP about a weighted blanket

lavender in the room or all rooms in the house

kid friendly roll on herbal relaxing oil for wrists and temples. Obviously check with GP

no sugar at all in diet

warm milk

When in bed tell him to tighten all his muscles in his body for a few seconds and then relax them for a few times. Then tell him to wiggle his toes, then his legs, then arms arc to get them relaxed

set a 60 second timer and get him to blink over and over for 60 seconds apprently it tricks your brain into being tired

practicing yawning 5 minutes before bed together

if you have a dimmer lamp or dimmer switches downstairs start gradually dimming the light every 15 minutes before bed

apparently opening a window to keep your head cool and then issuing a hot water bottle on your feet tricks your brain into being tired

exercise exercise exercise - yoga an hour before bed. You can kids kids yoga on YouTube

this is so hard for you and personally I would be looking into ND at this point

edited because my spelling was bad

I would suggest something like this.

From your first post it reads like he was allowed in your bed sometimes. Then he started school, moved house, got a new baby sibling and was no longer allowed to sleep with you because tour mum said he should be in his own bed.

And now it's all blown up in something massive for him.

Ds slept in our bed for years. We transitioned out of it when he was just physically too big for anyone to get a decent sleep by putting a mattress on the floor and him sleeping there for a while. He was still close to us.

Would anyone approach like that be worth a try? Surely ir has to be better than where you are right now when bedtime sounds just awful.

Ds was in our bed most nights until age 6 or so, on the floor beside us for a while, then moved to his own room soon after.

This is terrible advice. He's not being naughty, he is struggling and he needs his parents to respond.

OP there are lots of things you can try and I'm not sure how many you have. Have you tried removing the pressure to sleep? Let him read or listen to autiobooks? Do you do proper sleep hygiene?
He needs to be referred for ND assessment.
I would also absolutely try melatonin. You won't get it on prescription but you can buy it online. You do need a bedtime routine for it to work and you need him to buy in to it.

It didn’t happen all at once. It was 2 years before I even found out I was pregnant, I didn’t even move until almost another year on top of that . I didn’t even let him every night it was maybe once or twice a week max even then it may not have been as regular as that because I don’t recall doing it that often just as a little treat snacks and a film and a sleepover. Every now and then. This is 4/5 years ago almost to when it started. Him going into bed now isn’t an option I’m sure it works for most but whenever we give an inch a mile is taken and things get worse. It’s sad but it’s the reality at the moment and has been for the time.

We did yes, the activity box to keep him occupied and stay in his room until he was ready to go to sleep) Stayed with him talking it through ( he would find random problems until he felt better and could go to sleep but that only made it worse. Sleep hygiene like bath, teeth, story bed? The basic standards? Or is it more than that? He has a set bedtime routine that doesn’t change and is pretty much stuck to schedule unless he is kicking off all sorts of hours and he consistently removes himself from his bed x

we’ve done everything but yawning, muscle relax, oil , the window and yoga ( I do feel even tiring him out just doesn’t really work tbh it’s all mindset for him ) I’d be willing to give it a try but I also feel it is just pandering to it in all honesty given what he is like already and how he responds it will be another thing for him to latch onto. He has gone to be assessed for autism and they said he seems like a normal bright boy and there is no need. And this was at a place that specialises in it as we was at breaking point not being allowed to sleep for weeks and weeks on end.