At rock bottom. Looking for sleep training advice.

[Lizbiz89]

My 10 month olds sleep is awful. And when I say awful it's now even worse than when he was a newborn. The longest stretch I've ever had with him is 5 hours when he was 10 weeks. Since the 4 month sleep regression it's gotten worse and worse. For example last night he was awake all night from 3am! He has a solid routine now. And I am getting him down in his cot for the first part of the night which is bliss. However he always wakes up around 11 and then he ends to in bed with us where he wakes 3-4 times a night. I have tried sleeping in a bed next to him in his cot but he wakes exactly the same amount of times and I did my back in getting him in and out of the cot so then reverted back to bed sharing 😫. I should say he is breastfed but is eats extremely well in the day now. I just don't know what to do anymore. I'm feeling ill with sleep deprivation at this point. Any sleep suggestions would be so appreciated.

Maybe not the ideal answer, but we left each of our DDs to just cry at that age. DD1 was waking several times each night. DD2 was waking 8 times a night, and we were completely broken. DD1 slept through on the third night. DD2 improved every night, but took a few nights more. Nothing else worked for us.

Oh you have my sympathy. I too reached rock bottom when my eldest was about that age.

Does he "self-settle" at all, when you put him down at the start of the night can he get to sleep or does he need to be asleep before you can leave him? Mine always fed-to-sleep. When I finally had to deal with it no matter what, I settled on a gradual retreat option because it felt right for me. Put her in her cot awake, soothed her, put a music toy on, then stepped back from the cot and waited. Reassured her by speaking to her. If she got upset, went back and patted/soothed her then stepped back again. Aimed to gradually make it further away - think of a lengthening piece of elastic.

I'd mentally prepared for it taking as long as it needed and expected at least a week. To my utter shock things were transformed in about 3 days! Once she could self-settle at the start of the night, she stopped waking herself up so much during the night - she could rouse and still get back to sleep again.

Very best wishes for strength for you and I hope you can also get good improvements for your little one.

PS eldest is still unreliable at getting to sleep, but age 21, that's her problem not mine anymore!!

Thank you for the replies. Yes I do sit with him until he falls asleep which I know needs to change. He was such a terrible settler in the beginning that I just couldn't leave him to cry so at first I started feeding him to sleep. Then I would rock him. Now I give him a kiss and say you're loved and safe, time for sleep now and then put him in his cot and sit beside him. So I feel I have started the process but I just need to help him fall asleep more independently whichever way that is. I just feel so lost with sleep deprivation half of the time that I can't see the wood for the trees.

Yes I do sit with him until he falls asleep which I know needs to change

This is your main problem.
If you don't tackle this now, you'll end up with a five year old who demands that you stay till they're asleep.

I've seen a recent thread on here where a women and her husband were taking turns to stay with their school aged child (all effing evening!) who does this.

Anyway. The Ferber sleep training book is what you need.

Link

Sympathies, I've been there twice! If you haven't already, night weaning would make a big difference. He's more than old enough. This too will pass!

Is he hungry? Try him in his cot with a bottle

I disagree. I co slept and fed to sleep my eldest. He's in a single bed now in his own room, no sleep issues whatsoever (he's 3.5).

My 10 month old I do the same co sleep - feed to sleep. He wakes in the night and its a quick feed then back to sleep.

What are his naps like? This could be as simple as too much day time sleep.

My little girl has always been low sleep needs, so comes in bottom end of her threshold for age.

I'd work on gradual retreat. So rather than you staying until he falls asleep, gradually move further away each night to the point where you are out of the door with the door open etc. He's waking in the early hours as that's probably the light bit of his sleep cycle and is wondering where you are. He needs to feel like he can go back to sleep again on his own. Once he's going to sleep without you there then leave him to settle when he wakes in the night as well.

What is his nap routine and when is bedtime and wake-up? It may be that you are aiming for more sleep than he needs overall so his sleep pressure is too low to allow him to sleep better overnight.

We used a sleep training method that meant going back into the room every 2 mins if she cried, to stroke her until she stopped crying, then leave the room again and set the timer for 2 mins again if she cried again. She was asleep in 12 mins on night 1 and slept for 7 hours. Asleep in 7 mins on night 2 and slept for 9 hours. 3 mins to go to sleep the next night, and slept through the night. Straight to sleep and slept through the night from them onwards! Occasional hiccups with nap transitions etc but always back on track afterwards. Sleep training is sometimes quick and easy like it was for us. But it doesn't work for everyone child, I'm well aware.

Thanks for your replies everyone. He wakes at 6.30/7am, then has 2 naps a day. 9.30am - 10.45am and 1.50ish - 3.10pm. The last one is specific because I have the school run so need to wake him up. Then I put him to bed 7.15-7.30pm. He will then quite reliably sleep until 11ish. Then that's it for the rest of the night. Tonight I did put him to bed and left the room and came back and forth to comfort him but he got extremely upset again so I sat on the other side of the room and kept shushing and stroking every few minute's. I really am at a loss as to what's best. He's my third baby and I was extremely lucky with my first 2 as they more or less slept well. Never had these issues. He's my first ebf baby as well which I think does affect sleep somewhat.

Gradual retreat agreed!
www.mumsnet.com/talk/sleep/1394888-What-worked-for-us-Hope-this-helps

I think initially it may be worth keeping to a specific wake-up time e.g. 6.30am. I believe this ai supposed to help with regulation of the circadian rhythm. If that makes no difference you could consider pushing bedtime slightly later (only by 15 minutes or so initially) and see if that improves things. Average sleep needs for 4-12 month olds ranges from 12-16 hours over a 24 hour period (i.e. overnight plus naps) and it may be his sleep needs have reduced slightly more towards the 12-13 hour range.

I’ve been here - twice. I agree with PP that you need to try the Ferber sleep training method

Please don't listen to the people who just left their babies to cry. So cruel. What are his day naps like? Some babies need less sleep than others and a higher sleep debt at night. Some on the other hand are getting overtired.

This is cruel. Babies cry because they need their mums. don’t leave them to cry

Ferber advocates leaving babies to cry until they vomit, cleaning them up with no eye contact, and then leaving them again. It's just neglect advocated by an old school
American paediatrician. Don't waste your money on Ferber. There are much kinder ways. Look at Lyndsey Hookway on Insta or look at her books

Pay a sleep consultant to help, it is worth it

It's depressing how these threads always attract cruel parents who will tell you to leave your child to cry all night. They did it to their kids so they want you to do the same.

My daughter dropped to one nap at 12 months, before this we significantly shortened the afternoon nap, then slowly dragged out the morning one.

Maybe try putting him down 15 mins later in the morning each day, and the shorten the afternoon one by 15-30 each day.

A sleep consultant would offer tailored advice, but appreciate they're expensive.

Many of my NCT group ended up using them in the second year and the general feedback was too much daytime sleep/too little sleep pressure at bedtime

Update - so I did a modified softer version of Ferber last night where I sat at the end of the room, shushed him and went over every few minutes to stroke him. He fell asleep within 20 mins and only woke up once at 2am!!! We still brought to our room after that but I was so amazed how long he slept! That is the best he's slept EVER! So unless it's a complete fluke, it definitely helped him sleep better.

I know sleep training is a very controversial subject but when people are desperate I can completely understand why they sleep train. Sleep deprivation is no joke and potentially be extremely dangerous if you're driving or looking after little children. I don't think anyone results to sleep training because they enjoy it. Speaking from experience lack of sleep is soul destroying.

We did sleep training with our first child.
It was the best thing we ever did.
She slept through the night by the third night of doing it.

Absolutely not the case that people who leave their children to cry are ‘cruel parents’.

Every child is different, and what works for many doesn’t work for all. We had tried EVERYTHING before leaving DDs to cry it out. Eg, DD2 would scream at the top of her lungs for four hours during gradual retreat, and then still not settle until she was fed. Crying out is a last resort when other approaches have failed and the parents are falling apart.

Don’t be so quick to pass judgement on parents whose experiences are totally different from yours.