Breastfeeding Toddler, not sleep training. Help.

[TryinghisbestDad]

Seemingly, all the Dads I know, their partners stopped breastfeeding around 9 months to a year and then sleep trained. My partner still breastfeeds and doesn't want to sleep train. So our little one is feed to sleep late in the evening (ranges from 8-10pm) and is waking up every night about 2 hours later. I can never help as they don't want me so then little one and mum go to bed together and I mostly sleep on the sofa. This doesn't seem healthy to me as noone is really sleeping properly and little one is not learning to sleep in her own bed. Is there anyone is a similar situation?

We didn't sleep train but did cut down the night feeds gradually from around one as my toddler was still waking every 90 mins all night demanding food. Interestingly, he didn't demand milk when dad was in with him and doing this has saved my soul being back at work. We now do alternate nights but one of us does ultimately end up in little ones room from early morning co sleeping. Sleep massively better though, usually one wake only if we don't attempt to put him back in his cot - we have been too tired or lazy to force it as at least get some of the night together now . It's all a phase and
I wouldn't say sleep training necessary to get out of this one but every baby is different

Thank you! Just nice to hear someone else is doing it this way tbh! I'm definitely impatient but it has been about 10 months I've wanted to try doing something different and Mum wanting to do it this way but it just doesn't seem to be getting better.
I like the idea of taking it in turns each night but Mum really struggles even if little one cries for just a few seconds. Atm the only thing that settles them is Mum breastfeeding.
We both work full time (neither wfh) so I completely understand not forcing things! But also don't want little one to grow up always wanting/needing us to sleep.

all sounds normal tbh. My toddler co sleeps and feeds a couple of times a night.

we bed share (2 adults and toddler in a super king) for most of the night. Toddler feeds to sleep and is popped down in their cot and comes in our bed at about 11 when they wake for a feed

But we are both happy with this. neither of us like hearing our little one cry, she’s little (20 months ish) and still needs help to get to sleep, still feeding for comfort as her last teeth are coming through. Never saw this as something that needs to be fixed. It’s normal. We aren’t alone at night- why would we expect our child to be?

children transition out of cosleeping when the understanding and sense of security is more engrained, without issue. Big girl beds can wait

I was still feeding our ds at night at 9mo. We did gradually reduce it, up to that point he just wouldn't accept my dh because feeding to sleep was his comfort and made him feel safe (not that he didn't feel safe with my dh - he was obsessed with dh during the day, but bf will naturally create a soothing effect and you make more milk at night).

We started by my dh going in when ds cried at night and he'd try to settle, then if that didn't work after a few minutes I'd go in and feed him. Gradually he started to accept dh and actually now dh does most of the night wake ups because he can resettle ds faster as he will just look to feed if i go in. So I'd also say be careful what you wish for there!

I do think these things are best left to settle themselves as naturally as possible unless it's no longer manageable for the parents. Some people swear by sleep training (and I totally get why) but also many people worry about the effects of it on a child and it never quite felt right to me. Children are biologically programed to want to be near their parents, especially a parent who is also a source of food and comfort through milk. So to me it felt right to wait until ds felt ready to be in his cot and every child is different. It would be worth chatting this through with your partner as she might just be thinking differently about this to you.

For what it's worth, most of the people I know who breastfed had a similar set up to you and co sleeping is proven to promote successful breastfeeding and let breastfeeding mums get more sleep than they would otherwise. Breastfeeding is recommended by WHO until at least 2 years of age. So while yes, loads of people decide its time to wean before 1, there's nothing abnormal about going past it. It's tough on a relationship but it is normal.

Ds is 16 months now and for the most part we have got him sleeping all night in his cot in his room but if he's having an unsettled night we will always revert back to dh in the spare bed/sofa and ds in bed with me because in my mind it's more dangerous for me to fall asleep in an armchair with ds than it is in a safe sleep position in bed. If you're both exhausted then that's an important factor to consider.

I would also say, breastfeeding is super emotional sometimes... I struggled massively at the start and was really scared about my supply dropping and worried a lot about having to stop before we were ready to. I was really anxious about dropping night feeds because I was really scared about the impact on my supply. So it's very possible that your partner is having similar worries. Its probably feeling like a big part of her bond with your baby and she might just not be ready to let that go yet.

I think you need to be patient and what I would do is seriously consider getting a larger mattress/floor bed so you can sleep in with them. I'd also speak to your partner about ways you can invest in your relationship and closeness as a couple without your wee one present through a date night or getting someone to babysit for a few hours.

Thank you! Some solid points I agree with. Our little one is also 20 months old so, even though they are obviously all different, it seems like I just need to get more on board, have a bit of patience and believe the plan will work. Think I've probably found it hard as everything is amazing during the day and I feel we share the parenting evenly and little one seems to love being with us both, but at night I'm always met with screaming.

This is totally biologically normal infant sleep and feeding. I suggest you join the Facebook group with a similar name. I’m still breastfeeding my toddler and she sleeps between us in a superking bed. If my DP complained he’d get short shrift. Your partner is being a responsive and intuitive mother, praise her rather than pressure her to change on your timescale.

Some children just aren’t good sleepers. It’s not necessarily anything to do with the breastfeeding. My son has always been breastfed to sleep and has mostly slept through the night since he was 3-4 months old. I think taking the breastfeeding which is your child’s comfort away from them is likely to make their sleep worse not better.

Thanks so much for sharing all that!

I think a lot of it comes from the fact I want to help and not leave Mum to do it all! I try to do everything I can during the day, breakfast, changing all the nappies, getting changed, taking the little one out to the park etc and I genuinely wouldn't mind spending hours in the night getting them to sleep.

I'm hoping little one will start to accept me more when I go on, but I'll keep trying!

I personally agree with not sleep training as I always want little one to know we are there whenever she needs. I just feel this can be achieved in their room. But, I think you're right and I need to be more patient. We do talk all this through just seem to clash on the same point, hence why I'm on here at 1am!

Floor bed is ordered and on the way so hopefully that will make a difference.

Really interesting about your breastfeeding points as obviously that's something I'll never fully understand how that bond feels. Thankfully supply has never been a problem but that could be something she worries about but hasn't said so.

Thanks again for your help!

Very fair. I don't think I realised how I'm pushing an agenda that maybe little one isn't ready for. Just hard as we both work full time and neither wfh so don't get much time to ourselves or together. I'll have a look at the Facebook group. Thank you!

That's true! Guess I've been looking at breastfeeding as the reason they wake up but it might not be that at all. Thank you!

Just on that- my dh felt the same like he was leaving a lot to me and didn't feel he was being as useful as he could have been but honestly, the nappies, the trips out, the housework and cooking he did meant the world to me because that was him facilitating me to feed our child. This is only one (temporary) aspect of parenting and you sound like you're 100% involved in everything else so I wouldn't worry about being a spare part unless your partner is complaining otherwise!

Join the Beyond Sleep Training FB group. What you describe is very normal. My DS at 17 months was the same with wakes but not breastfed as I wasn't able to. What helped for us was bed sharing with a parent for 2 months then going into a toddler bed.
I've heard people say this if you night wean but child still wakes (as is biologically normal) all you've done is lose a tool that gets them back to sleep. Once my DS was too heavy to rock back to sleep it became harder and longer to get him back to sleep, I wish I'd had the feeding to sleep ability!

We were lucky that night weaning did improve sleep for DS but it was very much on my terms, when I was ready as I had so much anxiety around his sleep anyway.
It was done very slowly, by me, not removing bed sharing comfort as well. Night weaned about 21 mo, after a long and gradual period of reduction of length of any feed etc, then offering cuddles first then finally explained mummy's milk was too tired and so we'd just cuddle if needed. No upset and he didn't even ask after the second night

You need to follow your wife's lead here, it's not just about your child, it's her too, and ultimately her decision.

The issue is your expectations do not line up with normal infant development.
The idea that you need to teach children to sleep/settle is bizarre and serves only to sell books on sleep training to tired parents.
Do not trust anyone who tells you that their kids are in bed by 7pm and sleep through the night every night etc. I’ve had a number of people tell me this over the years and it’s turned out to be mostly false.
Some kids sleep well at 20 months and some don’t, methods of feeding or training don’t really change that. Training would only further reduce your child’s tolerance for you at night time, if she associated you with crying and being ignored.
I’ve had one “good” sleeper and one poor sleeper - both treated the same by me and both are now sleeping in their own beds and without waking for milk (not 7-7 tho!) although mine are 6&3!

Babies and toddlers expect to breastfeed and sleep with their mums. The issue here is that you are sleeping on the sofa. Get a proper bed and a decent night's sleep.

My husband still gets the same, but it’s short lived.

i had a termination recently, I was in a lot of pain and the bf was giving me more cramps so I slept in the guest bedroom. She was absolutely furious that she couldn’t get to me, but he just had to hold her and shush-pat throughout the screams. She did settle.

But we only really do this if it’s unavoidable like the situation above. Dad doesn’t resettle on a normal evening at home unless I am touched out and at the end of my tether. I do still go on girls trips and out for the evening, so they do just have to cope when I am not there. I know lots of babies who were never breastfed who will still default to mum in the night at this age. It might be you in 6 months time!

Sounds like your wife just wants to do the easiest thing of booby magic than get you settling her when there isn’t a need for it. I don’t blame her. I think it’s important though that you encourage her to go see her friends or says yes to any trips- and you just say that you will muddle through and you have to learn. What you don’t want is a situation of resentment where she doesn’t feel like she can default from the status quo.

but in the short term I think you guys need to get a super king bed. That is going to make things so much easier. Once you have a baby safe room and a monitor set up, you might find that your wife can feed to sleep and ninja roll away so you can have an evening together. Mine will happily go into cot after a feed, but I know some toddlers need to fall asleep with a parent- so this might help.

Get on Facebook marketplace and stop sleeping on the sofa 😂

I fed mine for two years .. on demand.. waking every hour or so.. that's what our breasts are for.. are you feeling left out ?
Your wife is doing and amazing job.. don't take notice of your friends .
My husband used to pick daughter up out of cot next to us and help her latch onto my nipple while cuddling us both.. when she fell back asleep he put her back.
Sorry but babies come before husbands.
Won't be forever.

I can’t imagine kids get anything like enough quality sleep for brain development if they’re waking every hour for 2 years. They must be extremely over tired.

Sorry but I agree with OP. I think it’s creating a need - encouraging wakefulness, light sleeping and a sense of panic when they wake without boob in their mouth as that’s how they dropped off.

I have just finished feeding my 1 year old but night weaned at 9 months. He slept longer, was far happier during the day and came on leaps and bounds. When he’s tired due to teething or illness his development seems to stall and he’s crabby all day. When he’s rested he does new things, learns and smiles/laughs a lot.

I think all this speak of ‘biologically normal’ is a bit of a fallacy because nobody really knows what biologically normal for humans is, for hundreds of years now mums have done things in various different ways

@TryinghisbestDad what about a decent small double for the toddlers room? They can transition straight to it with a bedside rail and for now you can have a better bed? It could also be handy for evening activities for you and your wife if the wee one is settled in your bed? On that note, one of the unexpected advantages of long term BFing for me was increased sexual pleasure following stopping BFing. It was like the years of going without pleasure from them sexually was rewarded 🤣

it is developmentally normal though.

no one is asking you to justify why you night weaned your child pre 12 months- not my child, you do what works for you

but implying that every child who wakes in the night for feeds is developmentally delayed is just absolutely moronic. And that’s what you were doing

I didn’t say they were developmentally delayed. But there’s a link between lack of sleep and reduced cognitive function and emotional regulation. Sleep is a need just like food and parental care. The fact it’s brushed aside on here like it’s normal to go without it is mad.

@GoodnightAdeline
That daughter is now 40 years old.
With a fantastic career ..earing well over 100k.
Her brain developed just great . And certainly all that breast milk and comfort feed helped.

I’m sure she is. But anecdata isn’t data. The data suggests sleep is crucial for brain development in the first 2 years of life, yet we seem insistent on encouraging them to wake. I’m not sure why this makes some people so defensive. Babies brain development is being inhibited by trendy parenting fads.

@GoodnightAdeline

Breast feeding hasn't just been invented.
African women carry their babies in slings so they can latch whenever while working in the fields.
I carried mine in a sling so she could latch while l vacuumed etc.
I ran a la Lechè group..
This was when breast feeding was frowned upon for feeding in public.. l was one of the campaigners to make it legal to beable to breast feed anywhere and everywhere.
To imply that feeding on demand.. every hour or so delays brain development is absolutely bloody pathetic..
You need to educate yourself.
( ' or so" could mean sometimes an hour.. sometimes two..or three) l didn't actually clock watch.. just fed when ever she wanted it.
She's got degrees coming out of her brain.
Highly successful.

You’re not only ascribing things to me I haven’t actually said, you seem very triggered by simple fact that babies need quality sleep for brain development. Why don’t you ‘educate yourself’ by reading these..? The impact of sleep on babies brains has only been studied relatively recently so probably wasn’t around when yours was little.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5440010/

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2451994423000032

https://www.birmingham.ac.uk/news-archive/2020/poor-sleep-in-infancy-linked-to-behavioural-and-emotional-problems-in-toddlers

Oh and my DC1 was only breastfed for a few months but is in top sets for everything and an ‘amazingly fast learner’ according to her teacher. However I know this isn’t ‘data’.