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Ferber method - well no body slept :-(

96 replies

sleepnomore77 · 12/12/2023 09:58

Please no judgement, i am absolutely at my wits end. I was advised to co-sleep with second DS as was told id get maximum rest. At the beginning it was easier not having to get up, but then i found myself boobing him back to sleep after every sleep cycle. I assumed his sleep would settle naturally, or after weaning. I was exhausted, but continued on. Nothing improved, and i had to boob him back to sleep for naps, and every 45 minutes throughout the evening. I haven't had one night proper sleep, or an evening to myself for one year, and can't cope with being woken up every 45 minutes through the night anymore. His sleep pattern is exactly the same at 12 months to when he was 3 months old. I feel very ill, and nearly had a few car crashes due to exhaustion. Not only that but found my baby playing right near the edge of the bed this week, so knew for his own safety it was time to transfer him to the cot.

I read about ferber method on mumsnet, and all i find are testimonies of babies crying for 45 mins first night, 20 minutes second night and 3 minutes third night for example. I keep reading how it was a game changer, but last night was a disaster for us, and i feel so discouraged now.

I followed the steps, check in to provide comfort (sshhhh sounds and strokes) at 3 minutes, 5 minutes and then 10 minute intervals. It took him two hours to fall asleep, but then woke up crying 10 minutes later. I restarted the check ins again, but it suddenly went quiet before i reached the 10 minute check in. I assumed he must have went back to sleep, so snuck in to check on him 15 minutes later, and found him asleep whilst sitting holding onto the cot! I gently put him on his back snuck out. I couldn't sleep as my anxiety was through the roof... He then woke up 45 minutes later crying (it was midnight at this point and he only slept 55 minutes including the 10 minutes earlier). It was more of a whinging cry at this point, and i found he cried harder when i left after my check ins. I continued, and then heard nothing at 12.30 am and assumed he was asleep. He was asleep, but again sitting up holding onto the bar!

Anyway this continued all through the night where he would cry hard during check ins, then a further 5 minutes then silence. Id assume he fell asleep, but every time i went in to check he either would be stood there silently waiting for me awake, or holding on the cot sitting dozing off. I think he knew i was coming back due to check ins, and was waiting for me? Ive never read of a baby just waiting quietly. Ive read the baby would eventually fall asleep for a few good hours.

He must have been exhausted, but kept waking up similar pattern as before, after every 45 minutes. There was no change, or improvement. He would wait there quietly too so it didn't work in terms of teaching him to self settle. In the end i got worried by the fact he hardly slept by 5am, and my boobs were hurting from not feeding him, so decided to put him on spare mattress in the living room with me, he fed and went to sleep. Woke up again 1 hour later, and i fed again and he went back to sleep before i woke him up properly at 8am. I really don't know what to do, and dreading nap time coming up.

Has this happened with anyone else? I am absolutely shattered as i was already running on empty. I can't imagine a week of literally no sleep. There are no family, or friends to help. I am worried this won't work, and id never be able to get him to sleep through in his own cot.

OP posts:
sleepnomore77 · 12/12/2023 17:10

@TheShellBeach my anxiety was high, and after silence for 20 minutes, i assumed he was asleep so had to go in to check to see if hes ok.
The problem is he kept leaning his head on the wooden bars when he started dozing off which left red marks on his cheek, and side of his head. I thought best to move him back to the middle of the bed, but by doing this it woke him up. I don't know how to solve this issue as i know im not suppose to go in if they are quiet.

OP posts:
sleepnomore77 · 12/12/2023 17:16

@TheShellBeach Thank you. Yes would have left him, but didn't like the idea of him resting on bars which dug into his cheeks.

OP posts:
sleepnomore77 · 12/12/2023 17:25

@TerroristToddler thanks, he stayed stood up at the end of the cot crying out, til he got tired and started dozing. Never moved from that one spot! The problem is he was leaning on the wooden bars when asleep leaving red marks on them. I don't know if this will work if i have to go in to move him in a more suitable position.

I didn't expect it to be resolved in one night, but i guess wrongly assumed he wouldn't wake up still after every sleep cycle, and maybe manage to link a few sleep cycles later on through the night as that's what ive read, and just be being exhausted. He was still up every 45 minutes 8am-5am, but worse as i didnt breastfeed him back to sleep, so he was awake pretty much whole night!

OP posts:
Skykidsspy · 12/12/2023 17:31

It’s just a big change for him but he’ll get it.

do you have a video monitor? Once he’s properly asleep you should be able to move him away from the bars. I’m fairly sure that they all do it though.

does he have a toddler pillow? That might help too.

Familiaritybreedscontemptso · 12/12/2023 17:38

Be aware of intermittent rewards too OP. Now you’ve started, you need to stick with it consistently as if you do end up giving him what he is crying for eventually, he just learns that at some point that behaviour will get him what he wants. So is likely to persist with that behaviour for a lot longer.

sleepnomore77 · 12/12/2023 17:55

@Familiaritybreedscontemptso what do you mean sorry?

OP posts:
tokesqueen · 12/12/2023 18:36

VesperLind · 12/12/2023 11:57

My DS2 slept no more than 45mins at a time. We co-slept and he was ebf. Once in his own bed and weaned at 2.5 he slept through. With hindsight, we were keeping each other awake and I should have stopped bf sooner and put him in his own room. Like you OP I was demented from lack of sleep and miserable because he was generally a velcro baby who cried a lot. Sympathy ❤️‍🩹

This. Although I threw the towel in and swapped to formula and own room at three months. Slept so much better thereafter. I never ever had them in our bed.
This was 20 years ago mind, and granted 'guidelines' have changed.

TheShellBeach · 12/12/2023 18:42

sleepnomore77 · 12/12/2023 17:55

@Familiaritybreedscontemptso what do you mean sorry?

I think they mean that you going in when the baby is awake but not crying is defeating the purpose of sleep training?

Apologies if they meant something else - maybe giving in and offering the breast?

I actually expressed my milk if I found my breasts were uncomfortable and the baby (whichever one it happened to be - I had four) was asleep or not due to be fed.

I would not have fed any of them overnight after about four months. I'm not including DD1, who I made many mistakes with - she was the one I had to sleep train with Ferber, because I fed to sleep and she woke up constantly. I learned with the subsequent three how to ensure that they settled themselves and slept through the night.

TheShellBeach · 12/12/2023 18:47

I kept my first baby in our room for far too long - us turning over in bed etc. woke her up and I then I always had to feed her back to sleep. It was awful. That's why I ended up sleep training her when she was 2 and a bit (years).

The subsequent three babies stayed in with us for six weeks only, then went to their own rooms. I know that advice has changed about this but I am pretty sure that all the babies nowadays who don't sleep, whose mothers are demented from lack of sleep, are like this because they've never learned to fall asleep by themselves, in the peace and quiet of their own rooms. All those "next to me" cots cause sleep problems IMO.

I never fed a baby to sleep! Not after DD1. I learned by my mistakes, big time.

FusionChefGeoff · 12/12/2023 18:58

It sounds like maybe you've changed too many things at once!?

Move to cot
Night weaning
Ferber method

I'd just do one thing at a time so move to cot but still feed.

Once established in cot, night wean so offer water and usual comfort but not milk (much easier if DH does this so no milk expected!)

THEN when all that is done, go full Ferber

tokesqueen · 12/12/2023 19:07

TheShellBeach · 12/12/2023 18:47

I kept my first baby in our room for far too long - us turning over in bed etc. woke her up and I then I always had to feed her back to sleep. It was awful. That's why I ended up sleep training her when she was 2 and a bit (years).

The subsequent three babies stayed in with us for six weeks only, then went to their own rooms. I know that advice has changed about this but I am pretty sure that all the babies nowadays who don't sleep, whose mothers are demented from lack of sleep, are like this because they've never learned to fall asleep by themselves, in the peace and quiet of their own rooms. All those "next to me" cots cause sleep problems IMO.

I never fed a baby to sleep! Not after DD1. I learned by my mistakes, big time.

Edited

The last place I wanted my baby at night was 'next to me'. By the evening I needed a physical and psychological break.

3WildOnes · 12/12/2023 19:07

I think going from co sleeping and boobing all night to ferber is a bit much. I would get dad to sleep in the same room for a couple of weeks to break the feed/sleep association and then try Lucy Wolfe or another gradual retreat. I think it would be less traumatic all around and possibly not any slower.

ShirleyPhallus · 12/12/2023 19:11

Why would you go back in when the baby is quiet?! Just assume they’ve gone to sleep and leave them to it

Get a baby monitor so you don’t have to go in and out, you’re disturbing the baby more than way

Hollyhead · 12/12/2023 19:16

Is Dad on the scene? It’s always much better for the dad to do the sleep training. How old is your LO? If they have enough understanding get your DP to bring DC in and show them you’re asleep and say ‘shhh mummy asleep’ then take them back. My DH sat with mine while they cried themselves to sleep, patting and hugging etc. took three nights but only one really bad one. Never woke for boob again 💪 I do think they need to be 12 months or more though.

Kdubs1981 · 12/12/2023 19:22

angelpie33 · 12/12/2023 11:40

If your baby has been repeatedly waking up every 45mins through the night, have you considered a possible underlying medical issue? It seems extremely unusual to me. Perhaps something like sleep apnoea, tonsils/adenoids issues, allergies? Personally I would look into that first

This really isn't that unusual! You've just been lucky. Mine did this. He's 7 now and perfectly normal

Denimdenimdenim · 12/12/2023 19:22

Keep going!

Kdubs1981 · 12/12/2023 19:24

I'm sorry but this method is brutal and some babies will just never respond to it. It just doesn't suit his temperament. There are other methods that are no where as extreme.

I'm sorry this is so hard. My son was exactly the same. I know how hard the sleep deprivation is.

Familiaritybreedscontemptso · 12/12/2023 20:23

sleepnomore77 · 12/12/2023 17:55

@Familiaritybreedscontemptso what do you mean sorry?

Sorry I thought I’d explained but obviously not.

So you want baby to settle without Co-sleeping or the boob. And for most of the night you do whatever it is you want to be the settling method. But then, after a while, for whatever reason - because you’re tired, the baby’s tired, you’re worried it’s not working etc etc, you ‘give up’ and offer the boob / co sleep. Thereby creating an intermittent reward. You aren’t rewarding the crying every time but the baby learns ok, it won’t be every time but if I keep going eventually mum will give me what I’m hoping for. And in doing that, you actually create a really strong link for the baby between the behaviour and the ‘reward’. Which will make the behaviour much harder to change / take a lot longer to change - because baby is always wondering if this is the time they get the reward / if they just keep going a bit longer mum will give me what I want.

in short, consistency is key.

https://helpfulprofessor.com/intermittent-reinforcement-examples/

intermittent reinforcement examples and definition, explained below

Intermittent Reinforcement: 10 Examples and Definition (2023)

Intermittent reinforcement is a schedule of rewards for certain behaviors or responses but without any predictable pattern. In other words, the reward

https://helpfulprofessor.com/intermittent-reinforcement-examples/

RedRobyn2021 · 12/12/2023 20:32

Stop sleep training your baby, it is horrible and cruel. He is just a baby, you are an adult. You can't just clock off at night. Why isn't your DH helping you?

Have you tried a cot attached to your bed? I bought one from Argos that could have one side taken off, he can have his sleep space and you can have yours.

Join U.K. Co Sleeping on fb for more info on how to do this if you're interested

ShirleyPhallus · 12/12/2023 20:33

RedRobyn2021 · 12/12/2023 20:32

Stop sleep training your baby, it is horrible and cruel. He is just a baby, you are an adult. You can't just clock off at night. Why isn't your DH helping you?

Have you tried a cot attached to your bed? I bought one from Argos that could have one side taken off, he can have his sleep space and you can have yours.

Join U.K. Co Sleeping on fb for more info on how to do this if you're interested

Why is sleep training cruel? A parent who is woken every 45 minutes is useless (I know I was)

sleep training doesn’t mean leaving them to cry, it can be shush pat

RedRobyn2021 · 12/12/2023 20:34

Honestly reading your updates it disgusts me that a mother can treat their baby like this. I dgaf what anyone else says, it's appalling.

RedRobyn2021 · 12/12/2023 20:36

@ShirleyPhallus

That is just as unresponsive as leaving them to cry alone. There is no good sleep training because babies don't need to be taught how to sleep. Although I do appreciate that some babies take to it very easily, this baby clearly hasn't and is in great distress.

Avatartar · 12/12/2023 20:42

It’s a new skill OP, he needs time on his own to learn how to put himself to sleep- if you’re in there staring at him, he’s going to be thinking about anything but - it’s quiet- think I’ll sleep now

LapinR0se · 12/12/2023 20:43

This baby is actually not in great distress. He is standing up holding the bars and falling asleep doing so. In what world is that great distress?

ShirleyPhallus · 12/12/2023 20:46

RedRobyn2021 · 12/12/2023 20:36

@ShirleyPhallus

That is just as unresponsive as leaving them to cry alone. There is no good sleep training because babies don't need to be taught how to sleep. Although I do appreciate that some babies take to it very easily, this baby clearly hasn't and is in great distress.

Shushing and patting the baby is the same as leaving them to cry alone? What?