To sleep train or not to sleep train

[nmhermione]

My baby boy is 6 months and yesterday morning we decided the time had come to start sleep training. We're using a mixture of Ferber and Pick Up Put Down and don't leave him to cry for more than 5-10 minutes. The first few times we tried it was very hard, but we've had some small successes as well (where he fell asleep on his own after only 5 seconds of protest).

For the past few months, when we put him to sleep during the day, we've bounced him to sleep almost every single time. At night we've been co-sleeping, which really helped out with feeding him throughout the night (he's EBF).

Last night was our first night with him in his own room, and that was very sad and really lovely at the same time.

I've felt a lot of guilt at not responding to his cries right away and I've now made the mistake of researching online and am more confused than I was when I started. There are so many contradictory opinions and I just don't know what to believe anymore, so I decided to post on here (this is my first post).

The information I've gathered seems to broadly suggest the following:

PROS of sleep training

• Babies sleep better at night, which is good for their night rest and also the rest of the parents.
• Babies learn to self soothe, so they don't rely on parents anymore to put them to sleep, which means they can fall asleep when they're tired rather than asking for help.

CONS of sleep training

• Babies don't self soothe, they just learn not to cry when they wake up, so they don't actually sleep more, they just lie awake on their own.
• Babies learn that their parents won't respond when needed, which can damage their development and the bond between baby and parent.

These are very broadly speaking the findings of my online research and I just don't know what to believe. Obviously I don't want to cause any harm and the thought of him lying awake at night not crying because he knows we won't respond anyway, makes me extremely sad. On the other hand, if all that's not true and he would actually sleep better if we get through these few days, I think it's worth it in the long run for both him and us.

At the very least, we'd like our bed back so we can read a book at night and roll over and stretch whenever we want. We don't necessarily need him to sleep through the night just yet (lovely as that may be) as I do want to keep feeding through the night for now (and with him starting on solids this week, hopefully he'll need less milk at night soon). So I didn't mind waking up a few times and going to his room to feed him (rather than feed him in our bed, which was a lot easier), but he did cry for a few minutes after every feed when he was alone in his cot and I don't know how to feel about that.

Apologies for the very long and possibly repetitive post. Thanks for making it to the end if you have. I'm just very confused and want to do what's best for our family.

I think its cruel and they just learn you won't respond. Didn't do it with my first and won't be doing it with this baby. My first child sleeps like a dream now so it was fine. This baby will be moved to their own room around 6 months ish but I'd rather respond than not. Can't imagine purposefully ignoring a cry when it's literally baby saying they need something. Even if it's just comfort.

Thanks for your input. I'm now looking into the Pick Up Put Down technique, which involves picking him up when he cries, and putting him down once he's awake and calm. At least that way I won't leave him crying, but I am hopefully teaching him to fall asleep on his own. This technique takes a lot longer than others, but that's worth it if it means not letting him cry on his own.

Hi OP!

Have a look at this post from another mom on mumsnet, I found it well written and informative.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/sleep/4916472-sleep-training-success-and-my-thoughts?page=1

My own experience - i rocked and fed my baby to sleep until 10.5 months. Solids made no difference to his night feeds and wakings and they just got more and I was tired of it as I was full time working too.

at 10.5 months I did a combo of patting and singing to him and picking him up when crying but stayed by his cot every time. He settles really quickly most of the time now and I dont feed to sleep anymore. Sometimes a odd pick up here and there if he is fighting sleep and i am more comfortable letting him cry a bit because I am right next to him and can gauge the intensity of it.
Mostly the success for me lay in the fact that:
-Getting him to nap no longer took so much time and effort,
-I didn't have to always feed to sleep so I could start weaning at the 12 month mark
-his night wakings dropped to once/twice

• I can stay with him and cuddle him if he is distressed

-he can now just lay down, close his eyes and sleep (with me sitting next to him.. i aim to eventually be able to leave the room so I am slowly withdrawing sleep crutches like my touch and singing. Try to keep quiet when he is calm and eventually want to try and leave and only return if he is upset.)

I don’t think you are harming your baby if you respond within a reasonable time. I dont agree with the extinction method which says you close the door and just simply dont come back.. seems pretty intense but all the other methods give you a manner of still responding. I think choose for yourself what you are comfortable with for example how long you want to let the crying go before responding and seeing what works.. sleep training guides also say you need to continue your method with night wakings, I tried it twice and after an hour it still didnt work so I stopped trying and just resorted to feeding/assisting to sleep in the night. Do what works and what you feel good with I think. Telling by your post and concerns I doubt you’d leave your little one to cry 45 mins straight anyway!

We sleep trained both our boys - didn’t do them any harm and better for the family as a whole as we all got a decents night sleep.

Don’t think it harmed our bond. Actually, you could argue that it improved it as we weren’t tired, so had more energy to be better parents.

It's not cruel at all

I just noticed your post today.. will share in more detail what I did.. although I am not sure if at 6 months it may take slightly longer to adjust than at 10 (?)

I started with a bed time, i laid him in his cot and sat on a chair right next to him - singing/shushing/patting.. if he stood up, I laid him back down, if he cried and didnt settle with a pat/song i picked him up and rocked a bit but laid him back pretty soon after. Basically repeated this for 45mins until he fell asleep half in my arms, half in the cot, crying a bit but nothing crazy or distressing. For night time feeds I fed hm 30 mins before bed. For day feeds i fed him once he woke from a nap and did the same methods for nap time.

First couple days took 30-45 mins, now it takes 5-10 mins, sometimes 15 max but pretty much no crying, only a bit of moaning. Also i rarely still need to pick him up, only sometimes lay him back down from standing. Whats nice is that if he ever does fall asleep in my arms i can immediately put him down, whereas before i always waited for a deep sleep.

He does still wake at night and is sometimes tricky to settle but not nearly as much as before and he easily goes for 5-6 hrs without a feed (before it was never longer than 2-4!)

Trick to remember is to have a little wind down routine before a nap ie. nappy, closing curtains, saying goodbye for sleepy time to whoever is at home, songs… i found it helped when he associated certain routine, phrases and cues with sleep. He also has a dummy for sleep and i put 6 others in there.. he holds them for comfort and can easily find one when he wakes at night.

hope you find what works for you!

I didn’t sleep train either of mine, but know plenty of people who did. It’s about what you want to do and if you are back at work etc then being up 4 or 5 times in the night is absolutely awful.

Both of ours were in their own rooms at 6 months. I continued breast feeding but my husband started to go up and settle then as well.

With my first he began to sleep way better with just a couple of wake ups 7-7 at about 9 months. He was sleeping though 7-7 consistently by 13 months. My daughter is 19 months now and we did exactly the same, but she took longer and started sleeping through 7-7 at about 16 months. But by that time she was maybe only waking once at 3am ish so it wasn’t too bad going in and breastfeeding to put her back down and would only take 5-10 mins or so.

I think my husband going in and doing some of the nighttime wake ups did have an impact as they slept when they realised they weren’t going to get breastfed in the night.

Don’t stress too much about it. Have a chat with your partner and work out what you are both happy doing. Then stick to it. From my personal experience it’s consistency that is key.

Why not do a form of gradual withdrawal instead where you start sitting next to them using a gentle hand for reassurance but no patting or speaking....after the first shhhh. In time the hands not needed and you can start sitting further away ....I've used it day and night for numerous children over more than 20 years it's not stressful and takes around 10 days.

OP it's purely up to you what you feel is best for your baby, but I'd like to point out something that doesn't seem to get noticed often - the concept of having the baby sleep in their own room after 6 months, no co-sleeping (I know you said in your case you do), sleep training them = teaching them to not expect you to soothe them at night so that they sleep through as a result - all of these are cultural-based ideas and not actually necessary for you to follow through with. Whether you sleep train or not, your baby will eventually reach an age/developmental level where they can sleep independently.

So please don't feel the need to sleep train etc if you feel like it's not suitable. There's this idea that we have to make our babies as independent from us as soon as possible and it's just not necessary. At 6 months, your baby is going to be just as dependent on you for everything else even if they do start sleeping through the night.

There's this expectation that babies are just tiny adults so they shouldn't need us so much, so we feel like we're failing as parents if our babies aren't sleeping through the night etc as soon as possible.

Also, at 6 months your baby would only be starting on solids now, milk would still make up almost all of their diet. They aren't just going to stop feeling hungry in the night just because they're 6 months old now and being sleep trained.

Sorry if this comes across too negative, I only mean to help. My main point is to follow your instincts and encourage you to not do things based on societal pressure, if that's the reason why you're unsure about sleep training etc.

I honestly believe it is cruel and, just like other responders, have stated my opinion. Everyone will do what they think is right with their own child but at 6 months I don't think leaving a baby to cry is kind in anyway and can't understand why anyone would think that's ok.

I think you’re either ready to do it or you’re not. We did it with our first 2 when they turned 1. No regrets, we were ready. Cracked them both very quickly.
Our third didn’t really need it from memory, just slept through from about 9 months.

I did the pick up put down method to help to teach baby how to self settle. It worked a treat and he was sleeping 7-7 by 12 weeks.

I did PUPD at a few weeks old (!) she only had to whimper and she was picked up, no crying or screaming and I think she learnt I was always there for her. I only started so young as I realised if she was cuddled she would sleep through for too long and not wake for feeds.

I think pick up our down or gradual retreat is better than Ferber or methods where you leave them alone.

Research on whether it's harmful is very difficult to do as there are so many other variables and different methods etc.

We sleep trained both kids using gradual retreat (at 13mo and 9mo) and they'd be very happy to go to bed, loved getting in their cots, would want to play in there in the day etc. I didn't believe they were awake stressed in the night and then would have such a positive attitude to their beds.

For me, sleep training where babies say 'mum or dad are there and I'm pissed off they're not picking me up/feeding me' is different to 'mum or dad are nowhere to be seen and I don't know if they'll ever come back'. You can also tell the cry of a distressed baby from a tired and pissed off one.

I sleep trained my first (with day time naps - which was the issue) and he is the best sleeper ever. He sleeps 13hrs a night without any waking and he's 2. Goes down for naps and bedtime with ease. When he wakes (and when he did do when he was younger) he moaned a little got himself comfy again very quickly and then went back over - this is the optimal outcome. He didn't lie for extended periods awake longing for me. He just learnt "oh I can just get comfy and turn around without mummy"

I think it's a very very short lived difficult week, that results (if successful) in a child that sleeps very well, with parents who sleep very well thus resulting in a happier family all around. Bonds can be damaged just as easily (if not worse) by very sleep deprived/ratty parents and children.

I think it depends on the child. Some do self soothe. Others don't. Just learn that you won't come.

It really depends on the child, how deeply they sleep and their personalities. With my first I tried to sleep train four times. It was awful and I obviously gave up. He is 2 now and sleeps amazingly without the training.

The thing I hate about sleep training is that babies become different people so quickly that they can outgrow what they have learnt and resort to new tactics. Depends on the child. My second is a deeper sleeper and he probably could have slept alone but I don't want to now. I personally don't believe in self-soothing. Seriously, a 6month old self-soothing? Some adults can't even self-soothe without additional tools like a book or phone or whatever. All throughout history babies have slept with their mothers and sleep training is a new phenomenon. It doesn't make sense for the most vulnerable human in our household to sleep on their own.

No judgement though. Do what you need to in order to survive. Every baby is different and every parent is different too.

I don’t understand the argument that leaving them to cry for a few minutes at night will make them think you don’t respond to them when they are upset? Surely most parents are with them all day and respond when the child is upset? There is a world of difference between a cry of distress and one of not being able to vocalise they are tired and want to sleep.

I think it only works when you can understand the difference in the cries. Wailing, yes, jump in and soothe. Gentle snuffling and low cry sounds, I’ve left for a few mins and they’ve soon fallen asleep. I think it just depends on the baby.

All throughout history babies have slept with their mothers and sleep training is a new phenomenon.

This is not true for all cultures. I’m not sure what your sources are, but it’s not true for mine, or a lot of my friends who live in different continents.

Just out of interest, what cultures are you referring to?

This is an interesting article. It makes perfect sense for baby's to wake up, for top up feeds to support their development and growth. I get that in the west it's too hard for us to maintain that sleep pattern. We have school drop offs, work, baby activities ect ... We would go crazy if we followed a "natural" sleep rhythm. I do think it's interesting though.

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20220131-the-science-of-safe-and-healthy-baby-sleep

I think it's quite well known that sleep training is a fairly new western idea. 1800's and so forth. You can find plenty of sources yourself online.

I'm not attacking anyone btw, I've attempted it myself and it just didn't work for me. I think a happier family is a better family overall.

100% sleep train. A well rested mum is a MUCH better parent.

You can also give babies tools to help them self soothe in a similar way which is exactly what positive sleep associations are such as a simple bedtime routine, giving baby a dummy and when they are old enough, a teddy or a comfort blanket.

You are right that babies are different, mine settled so much better when I realised he actually preferred his own space and any patting/shushing/rocking just over stimulated him. He was good with a quick cuddle for reassurance if needed but then putting down which is why the pick up put down method worked well for him.

I think everyone finds their own way but I struggle with the idea of not comforting a crying baby myself just because every time my baby cries my instinct is to go to her immediately and give her what she needs.

Just something to consider though- I have been bedsharing but recently side-carred a cotbed which my 5 month old now sleeps in. It gives the best of both worlds because I have the space in the bed as she's not sleeping in it, but she's still right there beside me so it's much easier to breastfeed her through the night. Both things mean I sleep much better at night. Could be worth trying if you still want her sleeping near but want your bed back.

We have a 6 foot bed. We Co slept until DS was about 3. He then decided it was time to move to his own bed. If he woke in the night he knew not to wake us but would climb in with us ninja style.
The only truly sleepless nights we had with him was when he was very ill with chickenpox. The rest of the time he just slept.
It just worked for us.
He’s now 19 and despite my SIL warnings he’s perfectly normal. He struggled a bit with mental health through the pandemic but has otherwise been a pretty “solid” child ( his house tutors description).
One thing that I have noticed is the level of trust he has with us. He’s not frightened of sharing, most things, although often preceded by “don’t tell/say anything”. This may have nothing to do with sleeping/attachment but it may have helped.
I think you just have to go with what feels right for you. Listen to your instincts, if sleep training feels right then go for it but if it makes you feel uncomfortable then leave it a little while.
DS would scream until he was sick if I tried to put him down too early. He had no problem self settling during the day or once he was asleep at night but struggled going to sleep at bedtime.
They are little for such a short time. You’ll blink and the next minute they are a teenager who spends 80% of the time asleep in bed.