23 month old won’t sleep

[Stressedmum27]

Hi , I’ve posted here before with the same issue . My little boy who’s now 23 months is awful at sleeping . He’s never ever slept through and currently is waking every hr . He wriggles about , hits out etc and this can last up to an hour or more . I’m still breastfeeding cos it’s the only thing that settles him even though I hate it now cos it hurts . He’s co slept with me since maybe 8 months cos it was the only way to get him to sleep but I can’t do that anymore it’s affecting me and also it doesn’t work cos he still wakes up every hour .
I’ve spoken to a sleep therapist and are currently on day 5 of the cry it out method , I go check on him at 5 , 10 then 15 minute intervals up to an hr but he cries the entire time . Will not lie down and sleep . It’s gotten so bad he starts crying before being put in his cot cos he knows what’s coming . I then have to settle him on me after the hr and place him in his cot when he’s out cold otherwise he wakes up and I need to start it all over again . This means all night when he wakes up I sit with him till he’s out then put him in his cot and he repeats this process and wakes every hr . I’m getting no sleep at all .
I’ve adjusted his wake windows , I’ve timed his naps etc and nothing works. He doesn’t sleep in a pram so it’s limiting me leaving the house as I need to be home for his nap . Im honestly struggling and beginning to think there is something wrong or I’ve just failed him . Does anyone know what to do ? A very tired and sad mum

Hi @Stressedmum27 this sounds really stressful. You must be exhausted!

Firstly, you absolutely have not done anything wrong and haven’t failed him at all, you’ve been meeting his needs for comfort and support for nearly 2 years - that is an amazing achievement.

How much sleep does he get in the day? What time is he going to bed and what time does he wake up in the morning?

Are you trying to stop breastfeeding at the same time as trying to improve his sleep? I know lots of people believe that breastfeeding creates sleep issues, but this isn’t evidence based and you might find it easier to tackle one thing at a time.

You are doing a fantastic job, being sleep deprived is horrible and it sounds like the current method of sleep training isn’t working for either of you.

I breastfeed and cosleep with my 19 month old, who also won’t sleep in a pram so I do understand how difficult that can be. Does your DS sleep in the car?

@Pastaf0rbreakfast yeah I am I’ve had another night of the same thing . Put him in his cot at 8 and he screamed for an hr , to the point he was panicking . Had to settle him with breastmilk and he went to sleep but every time I placed him in his cot he woke up and I had to do the same process over and over till 12 . Then he was up every hour after this . Woke at 7:40 😩

im not trying to stop breastfeeding even though I really don’t want to do it anymore but I know it would be harder to sleep train and lose that for him at the same time .

He has one nap a day and this can be anywhere from an hour and a half to 2 hours . I don’t drive so he won’t nap outside of the house , can’t remember last time he slept in his pram so it’s limiting what I can do at this point

You’re not failing him at all but you are being massively inconsistent with the sleep training. If you’re going to do controlled crying (going in at intervals) or cry it out (shut the door and don’t go back in) then you need to see it through, not given in after an hour then settle him on you or feed. And you need to do the same cry process for all night wakes too. If you’re uncomfortable with this method of sleep training (sounds like you might be?!) then you don’t need to do it. I know you must be knackered but why not look at more gentle methods instead e.g. gradual retreat/disappearing chair? It’s not fair to you or him to half arse cry based sleep training; it’ll never work and as you’re finding it’s an awful lot of upset for nothing.

Sorry to hear you had another tricky night @Stressedmum27 . My DS has never been able to be transferred once asleep
either, he wakes in an instant so I feel your frustration!

A few months ago my DS would only ever go a maximum of 2hrs between wakes but then I started capping his nap at 1hr and waking him at 7am every day. I put him to bed when he seemed tired, the first few days it was about 9/10pm but towards the end of the first week he was going to bed around 8pm and was asleep within 10mins. Since doing this we have only 2 wakes most nights - sometimes more. I breastfeed to sleep at bedtime and wakes.

Could you try and fiddle around with timings a bit more? This really worked for us with zero tears (from either side!). DS goes down for the night on floor bed in his room and usually comes into us around 2am, but lasted until 5am a few nights ago!

The nap situation is tricky, and can be very limiting. I try and go out in the morning, home for lunch and nap and then sometimes out again in the afternoon. Now that the evenings are lighter, an after dinner walk really helps with DS getting a good night.

Mine is close to yours in age and she used to sleep like a dream and now she’s hit several milestones and is a total nightmare at night. Part of it is probably the timing. This age is tricky I think. You aren’t failing your child. That’s just the sleep deprivation talking I think.

I don’t know if it’ll help because I’m in a sleep crisis myself but I will share the routine that sort of helps.

We stick to a very religious sleep routine that kind of helps ready her mentally for sleep.

1. Dinner and then Bath
2. Diaper and PJs
3. brush teeth
4. If teething give medicine
5. We play a youtube video with calming music while letting her run off what is left of her energy. We try to stick to the same songs. This is the video we typically play. Sometimes she fusses when we turn it on because she knows it means bedtime is coming. But she does better we noticed so we keep doing it.
6. Cuddles story rain sounds white noise and then we put her in her crib.

Whatever routine you do you need to stick to it every night. After awhile it will become second nature and it will give you comfort too.

That’s just the start though. Then you have to commit to whatever method you chose to do once they are in bed and decide to cry. In your case it sounds like you’ve decided on the cry it out method.

My sister did this with my niece. Some kids do well with the check ins. For my niece the check ins just made her more upset. So my sister and I stopped checking in. We would set a timer and once it went off we would go back and cuddle her to sleep and then put her back down. Though she was at a different age then. Every night we would extend by a few minutes. She eventually got the message and started putting herself to sleep.

Now the trouble for me is the separation anxiety and nightmares. I have no solution to these two issues yet and I’m still working on that bit. 😅

Good luck OP!

Hi OP, I think I've commented on all the threads you've put on here. Sorry it hasn't improved for you!

I've never sleep trained myself but did night wean, which involved cuddling him when he woke in the night instead and tbh that made all the difference here, I think I mentioned it before but perhaps it just hasn't worked out for you? How my son falls asleep doesn't really matter.

I think maybe your ds is napping too long and is not tired enough for sleep training to work? I know if mine is not tired he kicks up a right fuss and that's with me or dh lying with him. It's like torture. At this age if my ds was napping for an hour and half + he would have needed a bed time 8:30 to 9 and still be a PITA to go to sleep, which was too late for me so I drastically reduced his nap. I honestly think the nap is screwing you over in the initial falling asleep at night thing. I wouldn't let him have more than 45mins if I were you. DS is now 2 and 4 months and doesn't nap some of the time at home, but naps about 1:15-2 at nursery and won't go to sleep until 8:45/9 those days.

I know @LapinR0se gave me some good advice on this final nap drop a couple of months back and hopefully can help you too?

@LGBirmingham @Pastaf0rbreakfast @BedtimeHelp Thank you for all your comments , I really have been struggling and this has been for some time . I did speak to a sleep therapist and she advised a nap of no more than 2 hrs but from
what you’re describing that’s too long for him so maybe I do need to reduce it ? I don’t particularly like the cry it out method but he just stands in his cot and chats if I stay in the room with him so that doesn’t help either 😬😬
I do want to stop breastfeeding and I have for ages but it’s hard when it’s the only thing that gets him to sleep but I’m so so tired it’s been a long two years and I know loads of mums go through this I was just losing my sanity a little and wanted as much help and advice as I could get so thank you again

Mine is exactly the same and I am so fed up. I am tired constantly. I'm not even working right now because it's ruining my work.

Mine takes a nap for 30-45 minutes and still has trouble. You could probably try cutting it down to an hour and see how he copes.

The reason he stands in his cot and chats if you're there is definitely because he isn't tired! He may also do better without a cot now, the feeling of being trapped might be making it worse?

I think a lot of sleep consultants must've had very sleepy children and it made them think they were geniuses. I know I read online that they should nap that long til 3 and beyond. It's laughable to me to suggest a 2 hour nap for a 2 year old. Most of the ones I know are nearly dropping naps by this time and parents only letting them have a short one, bar the odd one or two.

If I were you @Stressedmum27 I'd get the right nap sorted so he easily falls asleep at bedtime then revisit night weaning and be really firm. If he's tired it will be much less difficult.

@FlounderingFruitcake The reason I was doing that method was because it was recommended to me by the sleep therapist I went too . She advised that this would have been best for him

@LGBirmingham I was considering taking the bars off his cot and making it a bed instead but also considered that he would just keep getting up and coming to me 😬 it’s really tough to know what’s best to do cos all I want is for him to be able to sleep uninterrupted and independently

@Whatsrightnow im so sorry you’re going through the same thing . It’s incredibly hard going and I’m totally get what you’re going through

@Stressedmum27 you’ve had really bad advice from the sleep consultant.

Firstly cut way back on the nap so he is definitely tired for bedtime. I would do 45 mins or absolute max one hour between 1-2pm and a 7pm bedtime.

If you are doing controlled crying, you must not then pick him up and cuddle or rock him to sleep. That means all the tears and upset of the controlled crying are completely wasted.

If you are going to stick to controlled crying, you have to be 100% consistent with it all the way to sleep. I would not leave him 10-15 mins of crying that is dreadfully long. I would do 2 mins of actual crying, max 3. If he is kind of moaning a bit I would leave him to see if he will settle.

But an undertired child who has had a long nap and knows his mum will eventually cuddle him to sleep can easily cry for an hour. I am not surprised this is happening. You should get a refund from that consultant

By the way - if you do it properly, controlled crying normally results in zero to very little crying on the 3rd night.

@LapinR0se That’s exactly what she said she said to leave him , 5 , 10 and then 15 minutes up to an hr then if not sleeping to go settle him but not breastfeed to sleep and when he was asleep to put him in his cot . And that’s what I have been doing 😬

Toddlers are frightened in cots because it is a prison and they panic because they can't get to safety ( you) when they wake.

So ditch cot, get a single mattress on floor. It's low so he won't hurt himself if he rolls off. Bed time routine ( bath , teeth etc) .Tell him what is happening. We're going to sleep now. We'll read a book first. ( I'll be in my bed/ be in the kitchen etc. ) Darkened room. Small bottle. Read not too exciting book very slowly, very, very quietly, several times, more and more slowly and boringly. He'll drift off.

He has to be able to find you - so stairgate if necessary at night. He won't sleep well if he's in a perpetual state of panic/fear.

With increasing confidence he's not been abandoned he will sleep better.

No more than 1-11/2 hours nap say1-2.30.
In his bed as above.

A couple of things has come to mind here.

Maybe night weaning from milk will actually help not hinder.

Try removing the side of his cot and reset the boundaries. At the minute he's crying in his cot so you're going in in intervals and then eventually he's getting cuddles and milk. Take the side off and start as you mean to go on - however that looks. For me it would be repeatedly taking him back to his room if he comes out, no voices, no "fun", just returned to bed. See if changing the "problem" solves the problem. Don't fall into the trap of giving up though, you'll need to just keep returning him to bed until he falls asleep.

Alternatively, a Montessori bed on the floor might be an option - I know my ds (same age) still moves around his cot far too much for me to take the sides off yet.

I have a 23 month old that's never been a great sleeper, but we've finally made headway over the last 5-6 months by:

• getting rid of his cot, he never really liked it much! He sleeps in a proper bed, I lie in it with him and breastfeed him to sleep, then creep out. At first he'd wake after an hour, then 2, 3, now we're almost always 6+ hours straight.

• putting him to bed no earlier than 7 hours after he woke up from his nap. So he'll nap around 12.30-14.30, then go to bed at 21.30.

• making sure we run him out like a dog in the afternoon!! we always go to the park for at an hour at the very minimum in the afternoon, he has a trolley he loves running around pushing in the street outside our house, and if he's still raring to go we'll run around the house playing hide and seek.

• white noise machine and a star light projector thing also help when I'm getting him down - we point at the moon, stars etc and it creates a nice bedroom vibe. Maybe good idea if he's got a bad association with sleep?

Doing all this he sleeps around 21.30 - 05.00 on his own, then I get into bed with him and we both get another couple of hours.

As everyone else has said a nice sleepy bedtime routine helps to wind down too, but for us we have to make sure he's physically ready to drop as well.

Hope the above is useful, good luck!!
You sounds like a lovely mum by the way, try not to be too hard on yourself.

Honestly it’s terrible advice. Your child must be awfully confused

@LapinR0se i honestly thought she knew what she was talking about as well

@bcnmadre this may be the best option for him to be honest cos I can’t go on the way it is I’m so tired all the time

@bcnmadre thank you for saying that , I’m really just trying my best . This time round has been so different to my older kids they were all amazing at sleeping and I’ve just struggled you know ? Plus I have the added guilt that I’m super busy with the wee one that I feel I’m missing time with them too . It’s so tough being a mum sometimes

@Stressedmum27 you're doing so well and just trying to make everything right. Please don't blame yourself. I think you've just had advice from someone with a high sleep needs child.

I reckon if you really cut back the nap he'll go to sleep easier whatever way you get him to sleep/whatever bed you want him to sleep in.

Mine only tries to get out of his bed if he isn't tired. Rest of the time I have no problems with that at all.

@LGBirmingham thank you for saying that I appreciate it .

im going to try and take his cot side off and make it a bed and settle him in that and see how it goes . He’s a big mummies boy and im hoping this helps . Both of us need a good nights sleep and a wee break from being stuck to each other 🤣

@Stressedmum27 good luck! Let us know how it goes.

@LapinR0se you've given me advice before, we've had a no nap day. And ds has been so upset and emotional come the afternoon, it's such a tough phase this nap drop. He fell asleep 10 mins ago, completely exhausted. How long can I expect this for until he's totally fine on no nap? It's maybe been a 2/3 weeks so far where he won't nap some days.