I need help with sleep

[poppy8989]

So other than paying £250 plus on a sleep coach
Does any one at all have any idea how on earth I can get a baby to sleep or nap! He doesn't night or day.

We found following one of the sleep strategies in 'teach your child to sleep' by the Millpind Clinic did the trick with ds1.

The book has factual information, flow charts to decide on a strategy, then step by step instructions. All things that make your life easier as a sleep deprived parent.

There is no 'preaching' and you can choose what works for your family.

Honestly I’m here for the same reason. Daughter is 9 months old and hasn’t slept for the last 6-7 months. She doesn’t go past 45-60 mins for a nap during the day, and is awake every 45-60 mins throughout every single night as well.

Im almost at breaking point. She has a daily routine that I’m rigid with. She has a relaxing warm bath every night before bed. She eats 3 meals a day, she’s clean and warm and fed and loved. I don’t know what else to do. She has white noise on all night and for all sleeps. I’m completely lost.

We were the same with ds1 when he was 8/9 months and the health visitor came round. I could barely form a sentence! She lent me the book and we followed a gradual sleep plan and by 12 months he was sleeping 12 hours and having proper naps.

It's hard to to feel like your the only one going through it. But thank you for all your replies.
He's 7 months old now and I don't even know how Iv got this far without a real breakdown. Iv never felt so low before, or desperate for sleep.
Iv never understood how much I need sleep to function. I'm a mess.
Iv spent hundreds almost thousands on things Iv been told should help. Nothing does.
I don't know what else to do anymore.
@Kierax14 if you want to chat to anyone I'm going through the same and happy to rent to each other!

@Kierax14 rant.*

I'm so sorry OP, sending you hugs.

Have you heard of the Little Ones app? I downloaded it a couple of weeks ago using it with my 4 month old DD. It seems to be helping although some days go out the window and we don't end up following it. There are some self settling techniques in there too (not tried these yet).

I have also started cranial osteopathy and again this seems to have helped so far.

I went through the same with my second but for less time. I too felt so low. SO low.

A friend of mine had the same experience as you and found that a cranial osteopath helped. Also look up cycadium rhythm - I'm sure I've spelt that wrong.

Usually I swear by Harvey Karp and the 5 S's but I'm not sure how effective it would be at 7mo. Have a look into it though.

What's actually happening. Does he sleep at all ever, if so how and where and for how long? Is it before or after food. How much does he eat, how much milk does he have? Does he have a dummy?

With my second I ended up putting her in a sling for day time naps. She HATED it at first but I persisted and in the end she LOVED sleeping in the sling. Once she was napping, she'd sleep better at night. We then went through an awful period at 6mo where she stopped sleeping at night (for a month). In the end, one night of cosleeping and then putting her in her own room broke the cycle. I think we'd possibly been disturbing her.

I feel for you and wish I could fix it. It might be worth reaching out to your GP for support for yourself. In hindsight I wish I had. I kept saying I'm not depressed, I know that if I had sleep everything would be OK. Many years later I now take sertraline for anxiety (can also be used for depression) and it really does help and I wish I'd spoken to my GP back then. It wouldn't have fixed my exhaustion but it would have lifted my mood and feelings about it.

@Kierax14 how are you putting your baby to sleep?

What do you mean? As in routine wise or physically? If you mean physically we cuddle and sing until she’s awake but drowsy then I put her in her cot and stroke her head a few times or pat her bum or back and then leave

So she is going to sleep by herself for every nap and during the night?

The vast majority of sleep issues are caused by:
hunger
discomfort (too hot/cold or reflux etc)
routine off kilter
can’t self settle

@LapinR0se yes she is! She’s happy to go for her naps and bedtime. She has zero issues with actually going to sleep. She doesn’t complain, she doesn’t fight me, she happily goes to sleep. She just doesn’t stay asleep. She woke me up 21 times last night

can You post her full daytime routine including a feeds and describe her sleep environment?

@LapinR0se usually wakes (I say with a laugh, ok she starts the day) at 7am. Bottle straight away. Then we take the other two to school. Breakfast at 8.15.
First sleep is usually 2 hours after wake so usually around 9am. Sometimes she won’t want to sleep til around 9.30. If I’m lucky I can get an hour out of her. Usually between 30-45 minutes for a sleep.
Bottle upon waking although she doesn’t always want it
Lunch around 11.30-12pm
Afternoon nap about 1pm. Same as above I am lucky to get an hour. If she’s really tired when she wakes, I’ll persevere and attempt to resettle her for a longer sleep but doesn’t always work.
Bottle offered after school run around 3.30
Dinner at 5pm
Bath at 5.30-5.45pm
Bottle around 6.15-6.30
All TV off at that time for quiet reading and quiet play
Upstairs at 6.50 for cuddles and twinkle twinkle (her fav song)
Bed at 7

She has a sleeping bag, white noise on, bedroom temp usually around 18-19 degrees sometimes tips up to 20 once me and OH come to bed and raise the room temp from breathing lol

I would suggest these tweaks
7am milk
8.30 breakfast of porridge and mashed banana or blueberries, or scrambled eggs and toast fingers. Cup of water to drink
9.20-10am nap. Wake at 10am no matter how long the nap has been.
11.30 lunch including protein e.g. roast salmon fingers with penne pasta, spaghetti bolognese, chicken risotto. Greek yoghurt for dessert. Cup of water to drink
12.30 small milk bottle
1-3 nap in a sleeping bag in a blackout room with white noise on
3pm rice cakes or rusk and sippy cup of milk
5pm dinner - carb based eg baby pasta with 7-veg sauce, pumpkin squash risotto, mash potato with broccoli and cheese, cup of water to drink
6pm bath
6.45pm large milk bottle
7pm bed in vest + babygro + 2.5 tog bag with a light blanket tucked in. Blackout and white noise.
I would move her to her own room 100%

@LapinR0se Would you be able to tweak slightly as I have to do school run so need to leave my house by 2.45 latest, and I can’t have her in her own bedroom unfortunately as I have 3 children in a 2 bed house and my 10 and 12 year old are already sharing. Thank you for taking the time to help me

Just wake her at 2.40 and do the school run straight away, then do an earlier bedtime of 6.45

@poppy8989 how old is your baby and what’s your routine?

My sons 7 months and has not slept more than 2 hours at a time since he was born!

I start the day at 6/6:30 am and get my eldest (5 years old) ready for school.
Breakfast and feed at 6:40/7:15
Then play and get ready for school.
Soon as we're home at 9am get him into his gro bag, clean nappy and then feed and try and get him down for a nap. He's always so tired but as soon as I put him in his cot he screams and goes crazy. Soon as he gets upset it's game over and he won't sleep at all.
Play time, dog walk, tried in a pram and sling, more food, warm bath, baby massage....
Iv tired for hours before and nothing works.
Tired white noise, pink noise, classical music, tried humidifier, red light, patting, sushing, rocking, feeding to sleep, tried getting my mum to get him to sleep, tired his dad to get him to sleep and nothing works. Iv never know anything like it.
Even if I can do a contact nap it's 5-11 mins (11 being the longest every)
Iv paid hundreds for a sleep coach and it did nothing, hundreds on the sound machines ect too.
Iv tried co sleeping which I can't stand because I'm so tired I worry something bad will happen. It's not his teeth, he's full, he's warm, he's comfortable.
Iv brought books l, Iv asked midwives, been to the doctors to rule out any problems, Iv also paid hundreds for cranial osteopath. Nothing at all has worked.

How is he fed?

@poppy8989 i think it sounds like you have tried too many things and now you and your son are confused and don’t know what to expect from each other when it comes to sleep.

7 months old routine
7am milk feed
8.30am breakfast of porridge and blueberries with a sippy cup of water
9.15-10am nap 1.
put him in his sleeping bag at 9.10. Make the room pitch dark and turn on the white noise machine. Give him one comforter. Put him down in his cot and walk out. If he does actual real crying, time him for exactly one minute then walk in and say shhhh it’s sleepy time, put your hand calmly on his chest and then repeat the phrase and walk out. Time two minutes and do exactly the same. Repeat as many times as needed. Do not do anything different when you go in and don’t give up. Don’t leave it longer than 2 mins.

Get him up at 10am. If he only went to sleep at 9.45, then get him up at 10.15 but not any later.
10.30am milk feed

12 o’clock lunch - including protein and with a sippy cup of water. Full fat Greek yogurt for dessert.

12.30-2.30 nap 2. You are going to do exactly the same things as for nap 1, in exactly the same order. No deviation whatsoever.

3pm milk feed and some baby biscuits or a fruit pouch

if nap 2 was rubbish, you can offer a short catnap in the buggy for 30 mins max between 4-5pm.

5pm dinner - carb based, avoid protein

6pm bath

6.30pm milk feed and bed, exactly the same procedure as for the two naps. No deviation.

i would only offer one milk feed in the night at 7 months and make it a small one. All settling do exactly the same as during the day. This is how you build trust when it comes to sleep. You are there, he is safe, and he will always know what to expect.

@LapinR0se thank you so so much.
He's breastfed and we have also cut dairy for me and him as when he was around 4 months the health visitor said it could have been dairy stopping him from sleeping and now I have no idea as he still doesn't sleep as Iv been diary free for months!
Not sure if it's worth re introducing it.
Or what symptoms I should look for if it makes him worse.

Give him some dairy in his solid food and watch out for
diarrhoea
rashes
blood or mucus in stools

@LapinR0se he's EBF. I think I will try and introduce it again. He was very windy and uncomfortable on dairy before but they were the only symptoms

i Know you’re breastfeeding, I mean give him dairy in his actual food (as opposed to your own)