I don't know how to sleep train!

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Hi, some help here. Recently back at work and exhausted from lack of sleep.

My 9 month old just doesn't sleep at night, currently averaging 3 wakeup before waking up at 5am most days.

Currently schedule is:
5am - wake
9.30am - 45 min nap
1.30 pm - 1 hour nap
6.20pm - bathtime
7pm - bedtime

He will only sleep if you hold him.

We've tried Ferber and he stood up in his cot and cried for hours the whole week. We've tried PUPD/graduated retreat but again he will just stand up and try to play until he realises hes not being picked up, at which point he will cry.

This coupled with the multiple wakeup and early rise has left DH and I exhausted. I can barely function at work. What am I doing wrong? Is it the daytime schedule?

Have you tried one longer afternoon nap? Going down at 12 perhaps for 1.5-2 hours?

I tried that but it didn't help, still had split nights and an early wake so I thought maybe he was getting too much day sleep but still 😢

It might be worth persisting - it took a good 6 weeks for my daughter to settle into the one nap per day cycle.

Then don’t sleep train? 3 kids here, the pattern of wake ups you’re describing sounds normal to me. Still so young. They do sleep through eventually, I know it’s exhausting but they do. Can you take it in turns with your partner, can he do the first wake up while you sleep elsewhere with ear plugs, then you do the rest? Can he get up at 5 while you grab another hour?

My DD would be awake at 5 if I put her to bed at 7 so we do an 8/8.30 bedtime and she sleeps until 7, she's 18mo now but that's been her bedtime since around 7mo. She doesn't sleep straight through mind, wakes up several times in the night but a quick feed and she's back to sleep I bedshare so I can doze whilst she's feeding but if I had the energy to get out of bed I could probably feed back to sleep and return her to her cot.

7 is a early bedtime for that age, i would aim for 8/8:30 for a week or so and see if that helps

I think you need to shift all your timings back and reduce wake windows between naps/bedtime. My 10mo has always been able to stay awake for longer than average but he would struggle to last from 1:30pm to 7pm everyday.

Our typical schedule (we're not super strict on this but timings will generally only flex by about 30mins):

Wake 7am
Nap 1 10:30-11:30am
Nap 2 3:30-4:00pm
Bedtime 8pm

Waking 3 times a night at 9 months is entirely biologically normal, they’re not doing anything wrong they’re just a normal baby. Most babies this age wake in the night, it’s not unusual. I appreciate its tiring for the parents, but you can’t force a baby to develop faster than they’re going to. That’s why the training you’ve done hasn’t worked, you couldn’t train them to walk or talk faster either.
Will they sleep better in the bed with you? You’d have to get up less to comfort them at least so should get more sleep.

Waking 3 times a night at 9 months is entirely biologically normal, they’re not doing anything wrong they’re just a normal baby.

This too! I should say, even with the schedule I posted my baby still wakes up 2-3 times a night but I'm perfectly happy with this.

I would definitely shift bedtime later. My DS saw falling asleep at that time at that age as a final nap rather than bedtime!!

Thanks for this, so should we adjust the whole schedule or just wait for him to fall asleep later on his own?

We're currently alternating some nights in the spare room so that one of us gets at least a full night a week. Out of interest when did your kids sleep through, I know eventually there is light at end of the tunnel but social media makes it seems like everyone's baby sleeps 7 to 7 so was wondering if it was just mine!

I agree that that afternoon wake period is quite long at 5.5 hours and the total nap time of 1.75 hours is quite short so your baby could be overtired at night and this could lead to more frequent wakings.

My nearly 10 month old DS does:
6:30/7:00 wake up
9:30/40 - 10:00 nap (20/30 mins)
13:00 - 15:00 nap (2 hours)
18:00 bath, bottle, teeth & book bedtime routine
19:00 sleep

He sometimes wakes for a bottle around 3am but sleeps through some nights.

He's starting to fight his morning nap so I put him down for it at 9:20 and it takes him a while to drop off and then I wake him at 10. Twice now he hasn't slept at all for his morning nap because he's been trying out a new skill so I just start his lunch nap closer to 12:30 and let him sleep for 2.5 hours in one go at lunch.

Thank you for this schedule, helpful to see someone else's. His nap at 1.30 is for an hour so would be up at 2.30 and then bed at 7 making it about 4.5 hours?

Is this still too long?

Did you "sleep train" him or did he naturally start sleeping through after working on his schedule

I would either get 1st nap to be longer or squeeze a short third nap in. But i would much prefer my kids going to bed at 8/8:30 and the sleeping through till 7:30/8am so would always go for latet bedtimes to avoid early starts

My DD is 2.5 and started sleeping through 90% of the time not long after her 2nd birthday. Nothing we did, she just started sleeping 7-7.30. Before that she was awful, we tried everything but sleep training because I wasn't comfortable with it. She now sleeps longer overnight than some of my friends children who were sleep trained but that's probably coincidence.

Some kids just don't sleep through until older (or even much older), it is bugger all to do with schedules or training. So try not to get too obsessive about it, so long as you get enough sleep yourself.

We've been following the Little Ones sleep routine from about 4 months. It seemed to fit with my DS's natural sleep pattern but just nudged him to make his lunch nap longer and his morning & afternoon naps shorter. We used to follow the routine exactly but at around 8 months he struggled to go down for his 2 hour lunch nap at 12:30 so we do lunch at 12, playtime from 12:30 - 13:00 then do a 2 hour nap.
Eventually the morning nap will be reduced to 10 mins from 9:50 - 10 and will then be dropped and he'll just have a 2 hour nap from 12:30 - 14:30.

Hi,
My son finally started sleeping better at this age... when I say better I mean 2 wake ups over night.
Firstly I'd look at your awake times, they seem really long and he is probably overtired so you want to get this under control first.

At 9mo my son had just dropped to 2 naps and we followed the 2 3 4 schedule. Awake 2hrs, first nap aim for 1hr or more, then awake 3hrs to get to the afternoon nap (aim for 2hrs nap) then 4hrs till bed time.

Once the over tiredness is under control you can look to sleep train. Has he got a comforter or soft toy? We got my son attached to one before leaving him to settle himself. We went in and out of the room every 3 or 4 mins to comfort him and it didn't take long.

Good luck!

Any social media pages that offer really prescriptive advice on what your baby should be doing e.g. sleeping 7-7 are a crock of shit (in my humble opinion) and demonstrate that the person doesn't understand biologically normal baby sleep.

Sleep consultants have a vested interest in seeking out and making anxious, sleep-deprived mums feel like their babies are broken and need fixing. It's how they make money.

Here's an example:

I'm a new mum. Meta knows I'm a new mum because of the data they have on me. Sleep consultants pay Meta to show me their posts. I see a sponsored post from the sleep consultant and as an anxious, sleep deprived new mum, start following them. I see posts from them about what my baby should be doing at their age, and start to feel more anxious because my baby isn't doing that. So I go to their page for advice on how to help them sleep better. Blackout blinds? Check. White noise? Already use it. Swaddling? Tried it. I start panicking that maybe my baby is broken. I pay £50 for a sleep schedule I download from their website. I try the sleep schedule for a week but it doesn't work, baby is fighting naps and nighttimes seem worse. Baby really is broken. I pay £150 for a one to one consultation. Sleep consultant tells me baby keeps waking up because I feed her to sleep and I need to move the feed to the start of the bedtime routine. I try this for a couple of nights but baby now won't settle to sleep at all. I pay £50 for another call with the sleep consultant. Sleep consultant tells me that I need to try one of her 'gentle sleep training' methods to teach my baby to sleep, she has a downloadable guide on her website for £50 or she offers an on call service via WhatsApp to support me through the training for £100.

CROCK. OF. SHIT.

I agree with a PP that that second wake window before bed is probably too long for baby's age. Could try squeeze in a third nap and a slightly later bedtime. Or in fact an earlier bedtime . We have found so many times that later nights actually lead to earlier mornings. Whereas early nights often lead to later mornings. It's all trial an error though. Definitely don't feel the pasture to sleep train if you don't want to/if it's not working. We felt strongly against it (personal preference) and have just rode the wave of terrible terrible sleep for months. Baby is 18months now and we're finally seeing some decent chunks, later mornings and reduced night wakes. Still not great but it's clearly heading in the right direction gradually, without us having done anything special at all. We do keep an eye on naps etc though as we know with our child that over tiredness leads to so many more night wakes!

Thank you everyone, I really appreciate it! He went down earlier today so let's see whether that helps 🤞🏻

Fingers crossed 🤞
Just to say, agree with PP in that babies do not sleep 12hrs overnight but let's hope you can combat the early waking!!

It also seems to me your first nap is too late. My 10 month old only just manages 2h 40 after waking up before his first nap. I would make first nap earlier, wake at 30 kind. Encourage a longer lunchtime nap. If needed do a contact 10 mins sleep around 4/4.30 latest to last through till bedtime.
I did sleep train but it's still not perfect. I would say you need to not feed at night and personally have found self settling to be a game changer.
Tweak the naps for a week consistently and see what happens x

Out of 3 kids, 1 slept through at 12 months, the other at 16 months and the other is still waking once a night at age 4. All treated the same. It is normal for them to wake up. It’s very tiring but try to tag team as much as you can