HELP - can't get ds off to sleep!

[musica]

My ds who is usually a really good sleeper, and usually goes to bed with a smile and a wave, is screaming his head off in his cot - he's got some books and toys, but he has gone completely ballistic! I've put calgel on his teeth - I just don't know what the matter is...any suggestions? He's 1 1/2 btw.

Did he have a particularly big sleep today? Maybe this could have made a difference.

By the time I am writing this he is probably sound asleep and you have forgotten all about his earlier shennanigans....well I hope so anyway! My DS1 was a really bad sleeper when he was tiny so at 5months we did the 'controlled crying' thing with him. The first night he cried for and hour and 3/4 so I know how awful it can be. Needless to say it only took 3 nights and he has slept like an angel ever since (he is almost 5).

Did your DS seem tired when he went to bed? Did he have any sort of upset? Children get more able to keep themselves awake and if they know it will annoy Mummy all the better. If it happens again try and keep calm and just go in, lie him down and keep reasurring him that you are downstairs/in the other room and hopefully he will eventually go to sleep. I'm sure this is what you did anyway so I hate to be stating the obvious but sometimes it is reasurring to know that others are doing the same.

I hope you evetually had a restful evening.Good luck.

Sounds like it could be teeth. I posted a similar question about a month ago, and yes, more teeth popped up a little while later. How many has he got now? If it is the flat pre-molar teeth coming through, they can take ages to come fully, and caused my ds a lot of bother and more than a few disturbed nights.

I would use something stronger than just a tooth gel, if you do think that it is teeth. I got through a few spoonfuls of calpol during the bad nights, but it did help.

Good luck

Can i just ask you VJR if your ds was the same with you the next day after you tried controlled crying? My dd (almost 7 months) is not sleeping very well from 7 - 10 (she was before). We have made a half hearted attempt (30 mins max) at CC but when I pop up to see her and she is on all fours crying it breaks my heart so I comfort her (big no no if you are doing CC). I am also worried that it will break the bond we have if I was to leave her crying for longer.
I think I need some reassurance that it is alright to do.
Sorry musica for hijacking your thread!

No problem forest! He did go off to sleep eventually - I think maybe he wasn't tired enough, and his teeth may have been hurting too. We've not been giving him a bath every night up till now, so we're going to try giving him one as part of his routine, so that he knows bedtime is coming, but has a chance to work off some excess energy in the bath. Thanks for your suggestions!

This is something I can relate to too. DD is 16 months and has patches of being a good sleeper and falling asleep on her own in her cot and staying there the night and then it all goes to pot when she has a cold, teeths etc. We've only had to resort to the controlled crying once and she cried for 2 1/2 hours the first night but by night 4 was fine. At this point in time she's only falling asleep on the bed with me with it sometimes taking until 10.30 for her to drop off, so we're on the verge of putting her through the cc again.
She is a very lively toddler and she can be absolutely shattered but still fighting sleeping and running around the place. Sometimes I am at my wits end because I am so shattered too!
The routine is very clear to her, she knows exactly what we're trying to acheive, but anyone got any other tips to wind her down and settle her?
Anyway, in answer to Forest's question when we have done the cc she was normal with us the next day, it is as if nothing had happened.

Well, ds is sitting up in bed singing and reading. Perfectly happy, but not going to sleep...he did have a good sleep this afternoon, but it's 11:00 and he's 16 months...oh well, maybe I'll get a lie in in the morning!

Forest - I know your question was directed at VJR but maybe I could add something as well.

My DD is also 7 months and we did CC when she was 6 months old - I have to say it worked like a dream. The first couple of nights were hard and I dreaded that she would be 'off' with me the next day, but you know what, the only person affected by the crying was ME!!!! She was in a great mood the next day and is every morning now and I am sure this is because she is finally getting a really good nights sleep.

HTH - Sorry to intrude on thread.

Forest - I agree with Ellasmum. The controlled crying worked so well for us that I would recomend it without hesitation. DS was quite a grumpy child who had difficulty sleeping in the day as well as at night. He would not be put down and I had to carry him the whole time. As a consequence of this he was very clingy. By 5 months I was very tired with a very sore back and had frankly had enough. As I said before after the 3rd night he slept like a dream and was so much more cheerful during the day. He also started to sleep better in the day and I could finally put him in his cot for a daytime nap.

As for the bonding, if anything I think we became closer because we were both much more cheerful. It is really horrible having to go in to a crying baby who only wants you to pick her/him up and then you have to walk away....it's heartbreaking and you feel like the most awful person in the world but just remember you are trying to teach them to stay and sleep in their own beds and feel confident at going to sleep with you not there. Be strong and consistent and it will work (I hope!). HTH and good luck!

We tried two nights CC with our youngest but after three hours, with her vomiting all over and being absolutely hysterical we dropped it. The next day, she looked dreadful, pale and giving those shuddering sighs that babies do after they've been crying. I wish we'd never tried it but it seems to suit lots of people. I don't know how they do it, but maybe it's temperament? DD is 6 now but is a very passionate, emotional child, so I guess it was never going to work for her.

When we cc'd our ds at 8months it was easy - 20mins crying and blissfull all night sleep. However, when we tried it earlier, he cried for three hours with no sign of winding down and it was awful and pointless. I think we had to wait for him to be reader. But both times he was exactly the same the next day - very loving and cheerful. For teeth I go straight in with the Nurofen baby. Excellent stuff and ds loves it. No point in letting him struggle on in pain when we could all be asleep IMO.

Ok - somebody come to my aid before I lose the plot completely and am carted away to the nut house. DS is 2 years and 7 months. He used to go to sleep without any problems. Then, after a while, it obviously occurred to him that he could get out of his bed and be a total pain in the arse. It is now taking me over an hour each night - sometimes much longer - to get him to the point where he will stop getting out of bed and go to sleep - and this is after half an hour of xxxxxxx stories! I have been sitting on the edge of his bed for bloody hours waiting for him to get sleepy (something I never used to have to do) before pegging it - but recently this has been going on for so long that I just can't hack it any more. So I've started doing the sitting for a short while and then leaving. And then putting him back in his bed, and then leaving - repeat for as long as you can before screaming. Tonight was classic - he hasn't slept all day (if I let him I'm done for as he won't go to sleep till 11) - and was absolutely shattered. He fell asleep in the five minutes it took to drive home from my mum's. He was so out for the count I managed to get him undressed and into his pyjamas without waking him. Ten minutes later the phone rang and, hey presto, ds was wide awake. That was at 7pm. He has finally given up and gone to sleep at 8.20. What do I do? The child was exhausted but just wouldn't give in to it. I used to have Dr Ferber's book but made the stupid mistake of lending it to someone ages ago (not realising that a one year old who sleeps like a dream may not always do so). Has anyone got it and can they advise what he says for this sort of thing? Any other advice gladly received too as I really am at wits end. (So much so that when sodding night light that plugs in to mains stopped working I kicked it and now have to replace an entire plug socket.)

Willow2, we had this for ages with dd1 when about 2. What time does your ds wake up? We have Dr Ferber's book - if your ds sleeps in in the morning and won't go to sleep at night, he might have a "late sleep phase" ie his body clock has shifted forwards, so he's not tired enough at the proper time. Not sure if this is the case with you, though. To cure this, you just (!) wake up your child 15 mins earlier each day, until he has adjusted.

We also had to resort to a stair gate across her bedroom doorway, and let her play in her bedroom until eventually she went to sleep when she felt like it. She was quite happy with this and eventually we didn't need to do it any more. It did help to retain our sanity.

Hope you find a solution soon !

Oh willow2, my sympathy. Must be awful. There was a thread a while ago about escapee toddlers, will see if I can find it. Might be useful. Other than that have you tried warm bath, warm milk, low lights etc? Sorry, expect you have. I think I might have a sleep book somewhere but don't think it's Ferber. If I do I'll post if there's anything useful.

Willow2, the thread I was thinking of is here. There seemed to be lots of good advice and it sounds like a similarish situation, hope something is useful.

yuk Willow. Went through this with my twins and it's a nightmare- many sympathies. Echo stairgate idea from Caroline5- really worked for us, despite me having serious reservations re traumatising the little blighters for life. What it did was get the message through to them and us that the evening was ADULT time and we weren't up for having small evil ones zooming about being annoying- its presence seemed to add meaning to the word "bedtime" for them and they actually went through a phase of INSISTING I closed it before I could leave their bedroom. They did baulk against it for a couple of days but as soon as they realised that they could muck about a bit in peace they were ok. Definitely worth trying, I'd say.

Same here willow. I'll wait with baited (bated?) breath to see what works for you, then I'll try it. 8:20? You're having a laugh. DS1 was still squarking at 11 tonight, and the wormy baby was writhing until 20 minutes ago. Doesn't it make you want to weep.

PS - I've tried boring him to death by staying in his room reading my own book - he can stand that for longer than anyone. Arghhhhhh!
Haven't tried the stairgate yet, as hellish abdabs ensue at it's mention. I think he'd just scream the entire house down.

willow and droile, fellow sufferer - I started a thread on this a while ago. The one Wickedwaterwitch mentioned.

I so, so wish I could say my problems are over - I received so much advice at the time.

This is where we are now: toddler (3 and a bit)will rattle around till 11.00 without flagging if I am unlucky.

I have stopped expecting him to be fast asleep before 8.00. In my dreams! I ai for shut eye around 8.30 to 9.30.

The best way to make this happen?

1. No day naps - or at least no longer than half an hour. If more, forget it!

2. At least an hour of exercise in the afternoon -playground, swimming, playcentre, or a few hours at nursery.

3. Waking my toddler up earlier in the morning (thanks Dr Ferber) - he will sleep till 9.00 or later if I let him. Very tempting at the weekend.

4. If I do the above for a day and my toddler is still alive and kicking at 11.00 pm, I know that the effect of these long, active days is cumulative, and the next day I will get a zonked out toddler at a sensible evening hour.

It is much easier to control his bedtime by controlling his waking up and napping. It is the only way in fact. NOTHING I have tried regarding his bedtime routine helps control his sleeping at night.

Ok one thing helps, a little, and that's lying down with him till he is all warm and cosy. But this only helps if ds is tired already.

Our bedtime routine takes place in our double bed - drink, story, cuddle, etc. Once ds is asleep I move him to his own bed for the night.

Stairgates are a total no no for us (I talked lots about this on the other tread so I won't repeat myselt). DS can climb over them with ease.

Progressive threats and shouts help a bit but will not EVER make ds sleep on their own. I usually carry ds back to bed at least three times before he settles, to make it clear that bedtime is bedtime, no shilly shallying around. The fact that I am STILL having to do this after nearly a year shows how much that has sunk into ds's brain!

In fact the only thing that works on the bedtime control front is when my dh has a stern word with him. And then that only works sometimes. Because really, our toddler couldn't give a toss that we want adult time. Doesn't care, doesn't understand.

So if I were you, concentrate on earlier waking up times, no naps and lots of exercise in the day. No good getting angry at 9.00 pm, by then it's too late to do anything about it!

Tons of sympathy to you both. And if you come up with any anwers, DO LET ME KNOW!

DS (3 yrs) can also be a little b**r to get to sleep and I have found the following helps:
1.As much activity and fresh air during the day as possible.
2.Following an identical routine to wind down every night.
3.Limiting sugary drinks, chocolate and sweetie intake after 4pm in the afternoon.
4.Absolute insistance that once he is in bed for storytime that he doesn't come out again.
When he was going through a constantly getting out of bed phase, I perched myself on a chair outside his door and everytime his perky little face popped out, I would immediately put him back in his bed. For a few nights, I did this for nearly an hour every evening until he got the message that I really meant business.
We've now moved on to the eternal procrastinator stage: he needs more milk, a nosey wipe, back rubbed, medicine, mussie found etc. etc. until I could scream. However, I've found that rising to the bait is the worst thing to do, so I have tissues, extra mussies, milk, medicine (syrup of figs!!!!) all to hand for speedy administration but he is still not allowed out of his room.
Don't know if any of this will help.

Bugsy, you horror! Syrup of figs!! Must remember that one for future use.
Willow, we went through a dodgy patch when ds was about this age - I think the transition from sleeping regularly during the day and not doing so is much trickier than just cutting out the nap and bringing bed-time forward. We nearly chucked him down the stairwell on more than one occasion. Ds is now in bed by 8pm and asleep by 8.30pm, if that helps - but our bedtime routine is different to yours in that we stay with him until he is asleep. He has two stories and then we chat, in the dark, about his day and ours. We keep it all very calm now, and have, if you like, surrendered to the idea that adult time starts only after he's asleep and oblivious. As Tigermoth so honestly says, they don't give a about our quality time. We just found the arguing, continuous bundling him back into his room and the screams and shouts too stressful. Some will say that we are pandering to him shamefully: but a couple of months down the line we have got bedtime back by 45 minutes on a permanent basis and no tears or angst from anyone. It's an alternative to the ideas of stairgates etc that others have suggested, and might be worth considering if you find these strategies don't work.

He's currently screaming his head off on the other side of a locked door as I have had enough. Will go in to him and settle him and then leave a la controlled crying. Have told him I'm quite happy for him to read a book or whatever, but it's his bedtime and that's it.
Agree totally with the no nap rule - but it doesn't seem to make a huge amount of difference if he doesn't have one - he still won't go to bed.

He's currently screaming his head off on the other side of a locked door as I have had enough. Will go in to him and settle him and then leave a la controlled crying. Have told him I'm quite happy for him to read a book or whatever, but it's his bedtime and that's it.
Agree totally with the no nap rule - but it doesn't seem to make a huge amount of difference if he doesn't have one - he still won't go to bed.

good luck, willow2

how's it going willow2? mine went down at 9.00 pm eventually, so not too bad.

Am planning on setting my alarm progressively earlier so I can wake him up progressively earlier too. At the moment he lies in till gone 8.00. I think I'm paying for this in the evening.

I had to abandon the locked door tactic very quickly - hated doing it anyway - my ds will cry till he's sick.