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Original poster

Sleep training not working?

30 replies

Owensmum19 · 21/03/2022 15:19

Hello,
After 8 months of sleep deprivation (I’m talking up 5 times a night on a good night abs usually 8 plus) we decided to ST and got The Sleep Chief to help. Things have gotten better but we still have a baby who doesn’t respond to CC during the night. He just keeps crying and crying. I had night weaned him, but the sleep train said that since he didn’t respond to CC perhaps he is genuinely hungry. My issue is that when I do feed him during the night it triggers more wake ups and I’m back to square one.

Does anyone have any advice? My main issue is with wake ups after 12. Baby (9mo) will just keep crying. It breaks my heart but I also can’t go back to what we were doing

OP posts:
Hercisback · 21/03/2022 15:28

What's his whole routine?

AnneLovesGilbert · 21/03/2022 15:35

9 months is very young to nightwean. How old was he when you did it and how long have you been back feeding him at night? Is he napping?

Original poster
Owensmum19 · 21/03/2022 15:58

Wakes anywhere between 5-630
Milk on wake
Breakfast 7
Nap 830-9
Milk 10
Lunch 1130
Nap 12-2
Milk 2
Dinner 430
Milk 6
Bed 630-7ish

OP posts:
Original poster
Owensmum19 · 21/03/2022 16:00

I think you’re right. He’s gone maybe five nights without any milk at all. Usually I give him it.

Tonight I’m going to feed him when he wakes and then put him down in his cot more awake to see if that makes a difference.

I’m happy to be up with him and feed him, I just can’t do it every 40mins to an hour.

I feel asleep in the chair while feeding him and so knew I needed to makes changes.

He doesn’t like to co-sleep (I’d love to!)

OP posts:
Whatafielddayfortheheat · 21/03/2022 16:00

9 months is far too young to night wean, your baby us hungry! I'm afraid the amount he is waking sounds normal to me, it's exhausting for you but he needs you. Try Co sleeping

Whatafielddayfortheheat · 21/03/2022 16:02

Argh posted too soon! Try co sleeping if you can, and know you're not alone! It's super tough but you will get through this Flowers

ShirleyPhallus · 21/03/2022 16:04

I really hate the advice to “just cosleep”, so many people need to get decent sleep themselves and cosleeping just doesn’t give them rest

@Owensmum19 I did sleep training for a very milk hungry baby, what I did was to give the baby a dream feed at 10pm. I lifted her out the cot and she had the feed half asleep, and put her straight back in the cot. It meant she didn’t really register any feeds but had a nice full tummy.

We then treated any proper wakings wi th CC as we knew she wasn’t hungry.

I did start with a 3am dream feed too but dropped that after a few months to keep the 10pm one.

Whatafielddayfortheheat · 21/03/2022 16:11

@ShirleyPhallus co sleeping isn't fantastic rest but it's a lot better than no rest, which seems to he OPs current situation

Hercisback · 21/03/2022 16:12

He's quite little to completely night wean, and his dinner is very early.

I'd do the 10pm dreamfeed just before you go to bed. Means you know he isn't hungry in the night and gives you a decent stab at some sleep.

I remember when I went back to work my 8mo woke at 10pm and 3am for a feed. It was brutal but we made it through. Give it a few weeks and his tummy will be big enough to drop the 10pm feed hopefully.

ShirleyPhallus · 21/03/2022 16:14

[quote Whatafielddayfortheheat]@ShirleyPhallus co sleeping isn't fantastic rest but it's a lot better than no rest, which seems to he OPs current situation[/quote]
But “no rest or crap rest” aren’t the only options! Especially when OP has asked for help on sleep training him!

Original poster
Owensmum19 · 21/03/2022 17:01

Cosleeping didn’t work for us. Tried it many times.

Wakeful babies are normal,
But sleeping in a chair with him was dangerous. I had to do something.

Let’s hope a dream feed can help

Feeding him at 10 and 3 would be a dream!

OP posts:
crackersforcheese · 21/03/2022 17:05

Hi op! My sympathies to you, sleep deprivation is hell! 4:30 is quite early for tea, could you possibly give baby some porridge a bit later before bed to try and fill them a bit more? X

Original poster
Owensmum19 · 21/03/2022 17:10

I could move everything by half hour. So yea would be at 5?

OP posts:
TooMinty · 21/03/2022 17:11

I would add a bowl of porridge as supper too - you want to get as many calories in during the day as possible. Maybe aiming for no feeds overnight is unrealistic (depends on your baby really) but at 9 months one or two feeds at night should be plenty calories wise. I found the main thing was to break the feed to sleep association so if mine did fall asleep on the boob I woke them up before putting in the cot.

We couldn't get co-sleeping to work either. Sounds great for people who can!

TooMinty · 21/03/2022 17:13

Also are you BLW or spoon feeding? As that makes a difference to how many calories the solid food is adding!

thebabynanny · 21/03/2022 17:17

How does he fall asleep at bedtime?

9 months is absolutely fine to nightwean if baby is eating well in the day. A late “supper” of porridge is a good idea though or doing a dream feed at 10pm.
I wouldn’t go back to feeding on waking in the night at this age though.

Yelsiap · 21/03/2022 17:38

Sleep training didn’t work with my little one until 11 months, I tried several times earlier but he just wasn’t ready yet, my little girl was 14 months. I know that’s not what you want to hear but my point is that if it’s not working now it doesn’t mean it won’t work in the future.

Original poster
Owensmum19 · 21/03/2022 18:24

We put him in his cot and he has a little moan then falls asleep. Taken us a long time to get to this point as he used to feed to sleep and be rocked. I followed a lot of gentle accounts telling me this was fine and not causing wake ups - but since we stopped he is doing a longer stretch at the beginning of the night.

OP posts:
crackersforcheese · 21/03/2022 18:33

My lo was still having bottles through the night at that point but I would maybe offer some water instead of milk when baby wakes, you may then find out if they are thirsty or hungry. I would definitely try the porridge before bed it worked well for us xxx

thebabynanny · 21/03/2022 19:35

@Owensmum19

We put him in his cot and he has a little moan then falls asleep. Taken us a long time to get to this point as he used to feed to sleep and be rocked. I followed a lot of gentle accounts telling me this was fine and not causing wake ups - but since we stopped he is doing a longer stretch at the beginning of the night.
You're doing great to have him self settling.

Do you play white noise overnight? Does he have any comforters? If not I would try introducing these to give him a way to settle himself again in the night

I would also try giving a bottle at 10pm - lift him without waking if possible, bottle feed and straight down again - to see if hunger is making him wake.

canyoutoleratethis · 21/03/2022 20:26

At 9 months a baby doesn't need milk overnight, so if feeding him isn't working for you, you can change things, as long as he is eating enough food in the day, so I would first look to increase his solids intake - how much is he actually eating at mealtimes? I also agree that 4.30 is too early for dinner, and would push this back to 5.30, with a 7.30 bedtime (this will hopefully also help with the times he wakes at 5am).

But maybe he doesn't respond to CC during the night because he needs more support from you? To be honest, your sleep trainer/consultant sounds a bit lazy if when CC didn't work, they simply stated he was hungry. There are other ways to 'train'. This doesn't have to be feeding to sleep, or rocking - for example, have you tried 'shush pat?' Or even just sitting next to the cot so he knows you're there. We do a combination of those with DD, who is now 12 months old. I night weaned her at 10 months, and I've never left her to cry alone - there are gentler ways which your DS may respond better to?

MaizeAmaze · 21/03/2022 20:35

I'd keep dinner where it is, and put in a "supper" before the final milk - often a banana or porridge in this house.
DS1 had night weaned himself at just past 9 months, but still woke every 60-90 mins. It could take 2 hrs to get him back down.
Sleep training didn't help. The thing that maximized rest for everyone was me sleeping (err, dozing might be more appropiate) on his bedroom floor with my hand through the bars of his cot. Then he babbled to himself for 2 hrs, rather than screamed for 2 hrs.
It was hell on earth.
Sorry. Keep trying all the other suggestions, but it is possible to survive a none sleeping child - he's at secondary now, but I still remember the hell.

Original poster
Owensmum19 · 22/03/2022 08:02

Tried dream feed last night. He woke during it and then was extremely difficult to settle afterwards. He wanted held upright and rocked but even that didn’t actually get him to sleep.

We do finger foods alongside some mush. Mush fills him up, finger foods help him learn how to chew.

I wish he only woke at 10 and 3.

If he goes to bed at 7, he’ll wake at 10,12,2,3,4,5 on a good night. 10 and 3 would be a dream.

When he woke at 5 this morning I brought him to my bed to try cosleeping again. It didn’t not work. He just cries as much as he does in his cot.

OP posts:
canyoutoleratethis · 22/03/2022 09:03

I've never understood this mythical dream feeding, my DD certainly never did either - if I fed her, she would wake, so not all babies will respond to that approach and it sounds like it might not work for you either.

If he's waking that much during the night he is not hungry, he's unable to resettle himself, so I would suggest not feeding him for any of the wake ups and going for an alternative option to help him back to sleep - what option you chose is down to how you feel about tears. All the options are on the spectrum of 'sleep training', and it's just down to your own personal choice which one you use. We went for a more gentle 'shush pat' approach, slowly reducing the amount of support over time until DD would settle herself back to sleep - this was not a quick process, but it limited the tears. So it depends on what you feel is right for you and your boy

NeedleNoodle3 · 22/03/2022 09:08

What happens if you put him to bed later?