Toddler Has Never Slept for more than two hours!

[CharleneFF]

First time posting here.
I have a 17 month old little girl who has always been a terrible sleeper (due to reflux when she was newborn and would only sleep through contact napping).
Still breastfeeding and it always helped getting her to sleep for naps, and eventually bedtime (after an hour of battling).
She basically naps usually once a day between 40 and 90 mins, she’s not great at connecting her sleep cycles so often wakes early and then I feed her back to sleep so that she’s getting enough daytime sleep. She has a very structured bedtime routine which includes a book, bath and breastfeed. However, it’s taking over an hour to get her to sleep every night and she has no idea how to go to sleep without me or her dad. She is either fed or rocked to sleep constantly and then wakes on average 5 times a night but sometimes up to 8 times. She has white noise, a comforter, an amber light when fed, sleep bag, etc. She has never slept through the night and it is extremely rare for her to sleep more than two hours without waking. She starts off in her cot and ends up in the bed with myself. I’m aware that breastfeeding is a sleep association for her but because she is waking so often I can’t bear the thought of rocking her to sleep 7 times a night so weaning doesn’t seem to be an option. Sleep training isn’t for us.
It’s been 17 months of never sleeping more than two hours and breastfeeding all through the night and I’ve hit a wall. I’ve never felt more lost about what to do for the best. I feel so guilty that she doesn’t know how to put herself to sleep so is having terrible sleep because of this.
She’s such a happy girl despite the bad sleep and has an enormous amount of energy (she’s taken on long walks with our dog everyday and walks the whole way and this still doesn’t tire her out). Any help is much appreciated. It seems like everyone I know has a baby that sleeps and I just feel like I’m doing something very wrong :(.

I knew before clicking on this that it would involve prolonged breastfeeding. It nearly always does. This isn’t a popular opinion but you need to night wean completely. Breastfeeding so frequently at this stage isn’t meeting a need, it’s creating one.

"I’m aware that breastfeeding is a sleep association for her but because she is waking so often I can’t bear the thought of rocking her to sleep 7 times a night so weaning doesn’t seem to be an option. Sleep training isn’t for us."

So you know what the problem is but don't want to do anything about it.

Nothing I can advise, I'm afraid.

I've breastfeed two babies btw, both with allergies and reflux, and have had to sleep train them both, it's not fun but I would have had a breakdown otherwise.

Your choice is to night wean and sleep train, or to continue breastfeeding to sleep in which case you have to accept the situation, and probably bedshare which makes it slightly less horrendous as at least you don't have to get out of bed and can just let baby help them self to your boobs.

Solidarity OP. My 14 month old is similar but we do get some longer stints at times. I think if it’s still the same by summer I’ll try done gentle sleep training. 😬

I would highly recommend looking up a sleep expert. Someone like ‘Just Chill Mama’ on Instagram or ‘calm and bright’. You don’t have to implement anything you aren’t comfortable with but a huge amount of sleep training is basically have someone look again at your routine and suggest tweaks. I understand your reluctance but you’re doing you DD know favours not helping her learn how to have a full nights rest. You must be exhausted. Well done for being so resilient to now.

You need to stop feeding her to sleep - day and night and night wean her too. I’d do nights first. Sorry

No need to stop bf but it needs to stop being a sleep aid

Once you have taught a baby to fall asleep a certain way, they need that way to get themselves back to sleep in the night.

We all stir and wake slightly throughout the night, just to check everything is fine and then roll over and go back to sleep.
If you stirred in the night and found something was different to how it was when you fell asleep - your husband was gone, or you were in a different place - you'd wake up alarmed or confused.

It's the same for your baby - she falls asleep in your arms, being fed, and then an hour later she stirs and realises she is unexpectedly alone in her cot. She can't get herself back to sleep and she is confused that you're gone so she cries and is fully awake.

For a baby or toddler to sleep well, you need to give them the tools to get themselves to sleep, and you need to ensure that everything is the same when they stir as it was at bedtime so they can feel safe and secure and don't get a horrible shock in the night.

If you don't want to get her falling asleep alone in her own bed at bedtime, I'd suggest the best route is to co-sleep.

Agree with the others I’m afraid, you need to stop breastfeeding to sleep - I’d start with the daytime naps as if she doesn’t sleep she’ll just be tired for bedtime and then be easier to get to sleep!!! I’ve exclusively breastfed 4 girls until 12-15 months old and I never fed to sleep!!!! Didn’t understand how anyone could as it took so long 🤣🤣. It won’t take very long.

If you do decide to get her falling asleep in her cot my suggestions would be:
Tweak the bedtime routine so you do breastfeed first, then bath and book.
The comforter and white noise are already a great start so keep on with them.
Have dad put her to sleep - start by rocking with her comforter and add a bottom pat to the rocking. If possible I'd make it more patting and ease off on the rocking.
Start by rocking til almost asleep, then put her in her cot and continue patting.
If she gets upset, pick up and rock again til calm and put her down and pat. Repeat until she falls asleep in the cot.
After a few days you will probably be able to go straight to patting in the cot.
After a few more days you will be able to just put her in the cot with a hand on her.
Then dad can gradually disappear from bedtime - sit next to the cot then day by day move further away from the cot until he's putting her in the cot and then standing at the door, then outside the door.

There's no way to do this that won't involve some effort and crying, but sleep training doesn't mean leaving them to cry alone.

I’m aware that breastfeeding is a sleep association for her but because she is waking so often I can’t bear the thought of rocking her to sleep 7 times a night so weaning doesn’t seem to be an option. Sleep training isn’t for us

If this is genuinely the case, then I’m not sure there are really any options available, other than sticking it out. I do think your first statement is misplaced though - you absolutely do not want to replace breastfeeding with rocking. That’s even more unsustainable. That doesn’t mean you shouldn’t night wean though. Night weaning also isn’t synonymous with sleep training, if you are using ‘sleep training’ to mean periods of unsupported crying used to change behaviour.

There are a million ways to night wean from going complete cold turkey to extremely gentle changes. We personally had success with the Jay Gordon method (look up on google). You need to be committed though - it’s rare for a child to be night weaned before biological ‘readiness’ without tears. At the end of the day you are taking away something they enjoy and know works. We never left DS cry as such - we replaced breastfeeding with cuddling and shhing and the like. Sleep got worse for a bit (maybe 2 weeks, tops) but then got infinitely better.

Also, for most neurotypical kids, if they are getting a ton of physical and mental stimulation in the day and have enough total hours awake, bedtime shouldn’t be a battle and shouldn’t take an hour. Sounds like she’s getting the simulation, so what time are you getting her up in the morning, what time are you doing the nap and when does she go to sleep for the night?

I agree about night weaning...

However do they snore? Dribble? Get tonsilitis? Ours had sleep apnea caused by big tonsils/adenoids and it made the world of difference once they were out.

Ffs everyone jumps to blame breastfeeding, always.

When she wakes during the night, is she upset, or just wants to play/chat etc? I would say the exact same as @OutlookStalking except with the added question of has she ever had any ear infections or been checked for them, as sometimes they don't show up any external symptoms.

@Garman

Ffs everyone jumps to blame breastfeeding, always.

When she wakes during the night, is she upset, or just wants to play/chat etc? I would say the exact same as @OutlookStalking except with the added question of has she ever had any ear infections or been checked for them, as sometimes they don't show up any external symptoms.

Because 90% of the time, breastfeeding is involved. And given breastfeeding past 1 isn’t commonplace, there’s clearly a link, whether we want there to be one or not.

@Garman it’s not breastfeeding, many babies have exactly the same issue being fed to sleep on a bottle. It’s any sleep association that the baby can’t control themselves that causes waking.

I wouldn't say it was because of breastfeeding if OP hadn't said that she has always fed to sleep, nighttime and naps.

I'm pro breastfeeding, but having breastfed two babies (DC1 breastfed until after his second birthday and still breastfeeding DC2 at 17 months) I have had to make a conscious effort not to breastfeed to sleep - it does still happen sometimes but it's not the answer if you want your baby to learn how to sleep more independently.

Nobody is ‘blaming breastfeeding’. By default, everyone answering this question has experience of night weaning which is at least partly what the OP asked about. Optimising sleep hygiene (including, but certainly not limited to or even necessitating night weaning) is a far more sensible first step before diagnosing the kid with uncommon conditions (interested to know how an ear infection with no symptoms whatsoever in a child described in the OP as ‘incredibly happy and bright with tons of energy’ would disrupt sleep this consistently for 17 months…)

@OutlookStalking I agree! My toddler was like this (he wasn’t breastfed to sleep just would drop off in his own bed happily) and would wake up like clockwise every two to three hours. He had a sleep study done and enlarged tonsils was found to be the cause. Worth checking all avenues before trying to sleep train.

Mine did this until I stopped breastfeeding at 14 months.

I also breastfed until my son was 2 years old. We also coslept and i did breastfeed him to sleep. When he turned 2 it approximately took 1 month to stop breastfeeding and we cuddled until he fell asleep.
He is now approaching 4 and has no problems going to sleep now and sleeps through the night. It is so very rare if he wakes up in the night.
Back then it worked for us, and I am happy i followed what felt right for us both. I never did sleep training, as it didn't feel right to me.
In regards to feeling lost and feeling guilty she can't get to sleep by herself, she will eventually she is still so little. Just do you and what works for you both.

@Introvertlove

I also breastfed until my son was 2 years old. We also coslept and i did breastfeed him to sleep. When he turned 2 it approximately took 1 month to stop breastfeeding and we cuddled until he fell asleep. He is now approaching 4 and has no problems going to sleep now and sleeps through the night. It is so very rare if he wakes up in the night. Back then it worked for us, and I am happy i followed what felt right for us both. I never did sleep training, as it didn't feel right to me. In regards to feeling lost and feeling guilty she can't get to sleep by herself, she will eventually she is still so little. Just do you and what works for you both.

But it isn’t working, that’s why OP posted.

1. get checked out by GP to be on the safe side
2. reconsider your position on sleep training
3. be consistent with whatever method you choose, and you should all be sleeping better within two weeks. No need to stop breastfeeding, but there’s definitely no need to be feeding through the night past around 6 months old!

Good luck!

breastfeeding to sleep might not be helping, but removing it might not improve the situation in the longer term either. it might do, or it might not. I bf my toddler (now 2) to sleep every nap, night and through the night and his sleep has improved over time at varying rates. his childminder can get him to sleep no problem too.

my friend bottle fed her DC and at 2.5 she still has to get up in the night to make a bottle (of mostly water now!) and change DC nappy several times a night. my DS generally sleeps 8pm - 7/8am with one or two wake ups, friends DC seems to have worse sleep than mine and hasn't involved bf.

what is your sleep set up, own room? cot? asking as I found a floor bed (king size mattress on the floor) helpful, so lay with DC to feed to sleep in his bed then I can roll away so he isn't falling to sleep in my arms and then perhaps when he stirs it has helped him to link sleep cycles as he is still in the same place. it is also his bed so when I want to move out, then he will already be used to this space, I just won't be there too. it is hard to think about moving away from feeding to sleep as if it works then it's hard to imagine changing it! you could try keep feeding to sleep but try a few other things, or you could feed to sleep but not overnight, or night wean altogether. Emma Pickett on Instagram is fab for weaning or setting boundaries with toddlers - she runs groups on zoom sometimes so keep an eye out for those (I am in one atm and find it really helpful)

Just cosleep for now. She clearly still needs the bm at night if she’s waking for it - cosleeping will make it easier for both of you.

It’s very hard OP I do understand (I didn’t breastfeed myself but we had similar with dummies as a massive comfort and difficulty getting rid!).
Replace the sleep associations. Would they listen to stories read aloud (on your phone or tony box type thing) instead? Sounds horrendous and unsustainable.

@Ozanj

Just cosleep for now. She clearly still needs the bm at night if she’s waking for it - cosleeping will make it easier for both of you.

OP is cosleeping.

No toddler ‘needs’ breastmilk 8+ times a day, not in a biological or hydration sense at least.