Page 5 | Those who have done Controlled Crying...

DonnyBurrito · 03/02/2022 21:04

If a BF baby slept 12 hours without a feed/cuddle, I mean.

truthfullylying · 03/02/2022 21:04

Many women have to work and don’t have the choice of being able to wake up every hour through the night, and I really don’t see how it’s good for a baby to wake that much either. Sleep is such an important brain development time.

Oh, silly me, I had never realised that women might work

Of course most women work but even so I personally did not feel comfortable to withhold my affection at six months.

There is literally zero scientific evidence that crying-induced sleep helps brain development, that is completely made up.

MrsSkylerWhite · 03/02/2022 21:06

That’s why I waited until 8 months!

ShirleyPhallus · 03/02/2022 21:07

[quote DonnyBurrito]@ShirleyPhallus, you can explain to a toddler what's going to happen at night when they cry, and their nutritional needs at night and breastfeeding relationship is much less important than a 6 month old. Using a CIO technique on a 2 year old is a lot different to a 6 month old.

The short cycles in which babies sleep is perfect for their development. My almost 6 month old who has always woke frequently through the night is developmentally ahead of my friends 9 month old, who has slept 12 hours a night without any waking since she was 4 months. Consequetive sleep has nothing to do with it, as long as they're reaching their overall daily amount of sleep needed, it doesn't matter if it's all together or not. They are supposed to wake frequently, especially in their first year. If a BF baby slept 12 hours, he would eventually starve as his mother's milk supply would be severely effected. Infant development is not negatively impacted by non consecutive sleep.[/quote]
No one is suggesting using CIO, I completely agree that that’s cruel. Controlled crying, which is what’s discussed here, is different.

If a BF baby slept for 12 hours he would eventually starve as his mothers milk supply would be severely effected

That’s just not true, plenty of women continue to successfully breastfeed with babies that sleep through the night with no impact to their milk supply and without starving their children

truthfullylying · 03/02/2022 21:17

No one is suggesting using CIO, I completely agree that that’s cruel. Controlled crying, which is what’s discussed here, is different. Isn't it just a branding thing? They are pretty close together on the spectrum, and I always thought if you are up and checking in their room it seems kind of pointless not to interact.

Pyri · 03/02/2022 21:31

@truthfullylying

No one is suggesting using CIO, I completely agree that that’s cruel. Controlled crying, which is what’s discussed here, is different. Isn't it just a branding thing? They are pretty close together on the spectrum, and I always thought if you are up and checking in their room it seems kind of pointless not to interact.

CIO is literally closing the door on the baby and leaving them to cry themselves to sleep, you don’t go back in to check on them at all

Controlled crying is returning at set intervals, comforting them but not taking them out of the cot

WitchyStarLight · 03/02/2022 21:43

My dc slept through ridiculously early, they went 10 till 6 from about 6 weeks and then from about 3 months went 6 till 6. They were both early walkers, early talkers ect. None of that shit matters once they're in school anyway, no one gives a shit how long it took for someone's else's kid to walk or to sleep or whether they were ff or bf. There are no differences in sports days on who's dc were developmentally ahead when they were x amount of months old. My dc have always had good health and were definitely not starved, in fact they were chubby little monsters with thigh, arm and neck rolls

Don't let others stances on what they believe is best make you feel guilty OP. I think it comes from jealousy that they're still being woke up and are chronically sleep deprived. I tell you what does hinder attachment ect - a mum who is completely exhausted and miserable. You have to put your own oxygen mask on first.

truthfullylying · 03/02/2022 22:04

Controlled crying is returning at set intervals, comforting them but not taking them out of the cot this whole concept is fucking weird to me! You have to override your parental instincts and be one cold fish.

I'm a soft touch

DonnyBurrito · 03/02/2022 22:44

@ShirleyPhallus, sure, some women have large milk storage capacities and can satisfy their babies nurtritional needs through the day alone. Many don't have large capacities though, and if their babies slept through the night without waking for a feed (especially when prolactin levels are at their highest at around 3am, indicating atleast one night feed is completely normal) then the next day they wouldn't just magically make enough milk to make up for that. Their capacity wouldn't just increase. I suppose women with large milk storage capacities can satisfy their babies easier through the day alone, and their babies are more likely to sleep through the night. That makes sense.

@WitchyStarLight, so we agree then. Whether babies sleep consequetively or not doesn't matter when it comes to their development. So glad we finally got that straightened out!

You know what makes mums miserable? People pushing their myths, outdated advice and agendas on them; telling new mums their babies are 'terrible' sleepers and have 'problems', when infact they are absolutely normal. I am much more relaxed now I've deleted the sleep apps, and stopped paying attention to people telling me lies about infant sleep development. The only thing that is a problem is women being forced to leave their very young infants before anyone is ready, and having to use upsetting strategies they don't actually want to use as a last resort to make the premature separation possible. It's very sad for everyone involved, and I dislike people trying to make out like it's necessary or even good for babies

truthfullylying · 04/02/2022 07:48

I was advised to answer the question about how my baby slept with 'fine, thanks' as people are always pushing the sleep nonsense on you. I agree the best thing to do is to ignore ignore ignore and not read any sleep training crap.

People often want you to do the same thing they did, and people who did sleep training are very pushy. You just have to give them nothing to go on, don't let them even get started! Just smile and zone them out.

DontWantTheRivalry · 05/02/2022 12:47

My baby was 9 months when we started controlled crying and we went in at intervals of 2, 4 and then 8 minutes. We didn’t interact with him when we went in, we just lay him back down.

Whenever he woke in the middle of the night we used the same technique.

The first night took about 50 minutes for him to go to sleep.
The second night took about the same.
The third and fourth night was about 20-30 minutes.

By the 6th night he went straight to sleep when he was put in his cot and was sleeping through for 11 hours.

We tackled daytime naps at the same time and used the same method.

Prior to sleep training he would wake at least every two hours through the night and I was lucky if he nappy at all.

After the 6-7 days of sleep training, as well as self settling and sleeping through, he was having two naps in his cot each day (self settling) which each one lasting 1.5 hours.

After having done the sleep training he was getting 6-7 more hours of sleep per 24 hours than he was before. That’s a massive difference and he was so much happier for it.

Parents need sleep and so do babies.

We trained under the guidance of a Sleep Consultant and it was the best £90 we ever spent.

LabradorFiasco · 05/02/2022 22:32

@LydiaFTM

Thanks everyone and apologies for causing a bit of a debate! Obviously I'm aware sleep training isn't very nice which is why I wanted to hear peoples experiences before I committed to it. Being a mum is hard and sometimes I question my own judgement and whether I'm doing everything wrong.

Just wanted to say that I wouldn’t judge you. You need sleep, baby needs sleep.

I do disagree with some of the definitions given here about controlled crying involving just checking in on baby without interacting/comforting. I think there is a gentler alternative which avoids the potential for ‘learned helplessness’ (ie baby is just laying there silently because they know their needs won’t be met if they cry - rather than learning to fall asleep and resettle themselves between sleep cycles, which is what we’re after).

I used short intervals and picked baby up, rocked, soothed and calmed him down completely - until he was not crying at all - before putting him back down and starting the next interval. Even if he then went mental with protesting (which he did). Even if it took 15-20 mins to calm him down, I did it. 1h30 the first night; 1h the second night; straight to sleep the third. He was 6mo so obviously still woke for feeds in the night until he was about 8 mo when he started sleeping through 12 hours a night of his own accord, and just bf in the morning when he woke.

It was the best parenting decision I ever made for us, and I feel that it was a method which respected infant psychology and development because we always met his needs. We just gave him space to learn to settle at the same time.

Good luck, you’re in a tough situation x

Ohya · 05/02/2022 22:41

I'm in the process of doing sleep training with my 14 months old. She had been sleeping on my chest after nursing and screaming when put down. I was at my wits end on Sunday for lack of sleep and decided to start training on Monday. During the day on Monday I put her down for naps. The most she cried was 18 minutes. In the night she went down without crying and slept for 6 hours, fed then did another 4. Since then she's been sleeping in her cot and waking only once in the night for a feed. The most she's cried is 10 minutes. I'm a happy mum.

BurbageBrook · 05/02/2022 22:45

Controlled crying is fucked up. At under a year old, it’s even worse.

Cocogreen · 06/02/2022 03:53

@crossstitchingnana

Please don't. It gives the message there is no point in asking for your needs to be met as no-one's coming.

This is absolute garbage. Don't let this upset you or put you off.

Good luck OP, as a previous poster said, work on one thing at a time and you'll get there.
Did it for our first baby, took two nights ( 7 months).
I didn't make the mistake of feeding or holding to sleep our second child - generally put in drowsy and settled himself from an early age. Yes there will be babies who it doesn't work for but you can only try with yours.

mrssunshinexxx · 06/02/2022 04:13

@LydiaFTM have you heard of just chill mama off Instagram? I did her course which was gentle sleep training (you never leave them until they are settled lots of patting and shushing) the first night even without leaving her was AWFUL I cried she cried but my husband spurred us on by night 3 she slept 8am-8pm and still does now she was 6months old when I did it and she's 20months now she's a fantastic sleeper

truthfullylying · 06/02/2022 05:59

Controlled crying is returning at set intervals, comforting them but not taking them out of the cot

This is really no better, it is still intentionally ignoring what the baby needs, it just has a veneer of being less unpleasant.

In both CIO and controlled crying, the baby learns not to bother asking.

Original poster

LydiaFTM · 06/02/2022 08:49

@mrssunshinexxx yes! I have done the 6-9m course and found it really good and I think that's what I'm going to use. But isn't her 'quick checks' method just another name for controlled crying? I suppose the 'in room' method is a bit gentler as you're with them all the time but I anticipate him being angrier with me there and it taking longer. I could always start with that method and then try the quick checks one if that doesn't work.

OP posts:

Pyri · 06/02/2022 13:06

@truthfullylying

Controlled crying is returning at set intervals, comforting them but not taking them out of the cot

This is really no better, it is still intentionally ignoring what the baby needs, it just has a veneer of being less unpleasant.

In both CIO and controlled crying, the baby learns not to bother asking.

Yeah this is just crap. I’ll ask this again given that no one seems to actually answer it - do you really think that babies who have had controlled crying never ever cry again because they’re “used to no one coming”?

@LabradorFiasco that particular method is called “pick up put down”

unicornpower · 06/02/2022 13:20

Worked for us, our baby was waking every 45mins and was screaming as she was so overtired. She hated co sleeping as she wanted to stretch out so we moved her into her own room and I would rock her to sleep to get her used to it and then we ST her using Ferber. Took 3 nights and now she sleeps 11 hours with one wake for a feed. We answer her cries as she genuinely needs us for milk or nappy change, rather than just she needs our help getting back to sleep. She often will wake but just moves and puts herself back off to sleep. She’s MUCH happier rested and so are we.

WitchyStarLight · 06/02/2022 14:02

It's neglected babies that stop crying. Actual neglected babies that live in homes with parents who don't feed them, play with them or change their nappies. Not parents who sleep train.

AKASammyScrounge · 06/02/2022 17:11

@crossstitchingnana

Please don't. It gives the message there is no point in asking for your needs to be met as no-one's coming.

That's how I feel about it. Babies don't cry over nothing and being ignored only makes them feel insecure and then they cry more

WarriorN · 06/02/2022 17:14

@LydiaFTM

...was it successful?

DS is 6 months old and nurses to sleep. We also cosleep and contact nap. He's starting nursery in March and I'd like him to be able to fall asleep better on his own or with less support. Previous, more gentle, sleep training attempts where we stay with him while he falls asleep haven't been successful.

I'm aware sleep training isn't for everyone and if we could avoid it I would but I'm not going to survive on current sleep levels on 8 hour work days. Plus he will be looked after by nursery and grandparents and I need reassurance he will be able to settle for naps without me there to nurse him. So please no judgment!

If it's worked, how long did your baby take to fall asleep on the first night? And how long did the whole process take?

Am I right in thinking on each check-in we spend a few minutes comforting DS without picking him up? I'm fairly sure it will reach a point where no amount of reassurance will comfort him in the slightest!

Did you use it for bedtime and naps all at once? Or start with bedtime?

Thank you!

Coslept and breastfed both of mine till 3+ and they worked out how to sleep at nursery absolutely fine.

truthfullylying · 06/02/2022 22:39

Yeah this is just crap. I’ll ask this again given that no one seems to actually answer it - do you really think that babies who have had controlled crying never ever cry again because they’re “used to no one coming”? Babies of that age do not 'think' anything, but the intention of both CIO and CC is to stop the baby crying for the parent in the night.

The two sides of this debate will never be reconciled, everyone has parent as they want, but I could not do it because I did not want to ignore my baby when it cried. As I said upthread, I am a soft touch.

I watched a relative do sleep training and it was grim.

roarfeckingroarr · 06/02/2022 22:47

It's awful to do this to such young babies