Those who have done Controlled Crying...

[LydiaFTM]

...was it successful?

DS is 6 months old and nurses to sleep. We also cosleep and contact nap. He's starting nursery in March and I'd like him to be able to fall asleep better on his own or with less support. Previous, more gentle, sleep training attempts where we stay with him while he falls asleep haven't been successful.

I'm aware sleep training isn't for everyone and if we could avoid it I would but I'm not going to survive on current sleep levels on 8 hour work days. Plus he will be looked after by nursery and grandparents and I need reassurance he will be able to settle for naps without me there to nurse him. So please no judgment!

If it's worked, how long did your baby take to fall asleep on the first night? And how long did the whole process take?

Am I right in thinking on each check-in we spend a few minutes comforting DS without picking him up? I'm fairly sure it will reach a point where no amount of reassurance will comfort him in the slightest!

Did you use it for bedtime and naps all at once? Or start with bedtime?

Thank you!

We tried it for a couple of nights with our first. We stopped because he was becoming hysterical; shaking, crying and clinging on to us as soon we started the bedtime routine. He became clingier for weeks afterwards too. We regretted trying it with him. In the end we did a gradual retreat and that worked really well.

CC is literally a made up method, by a privileged white man, in a white coat, based on a study of middle class, white people, in the West. All sleep training is essentially this. The rest of the world do not engage in this stupidity.

Your baby will adapt and sleep just fine with others without the need to sleep train.
They are not a unicorn baby, nor are they the first or last child to be left with other caregivers.
You don't need to leave them to cry.

PP who have said "Oh well as long as their needs are met..." - well evidently, their needs aren't being met if they're upset!

(Breastfed/bed shared for 16 months, child went to nursery at 11 months and slept just fine without boobs or me. My child wasn't a unicorn either.)

It was magic with DS, it took all of 15 minutes.

As for DD...we only stopped cuddling her to sleep 3 months ago. She's nearly 5 😬

I did CC for both my dc. They slept well on a routine from babies, never had problems during the toddler years or primary years. They're 14 and 16, zero trauma from it and both still go to bed when they're tired and sleep well.

I was a young single mum, I couldn't have coped without a good night's sleep and they needed it too.

Also - apologies I'm going to get on my soap box.

For good attachment research says that it's all about the repair. You only need to be attuned 30% of the time and repair the rest. There are three stages of attachment. The first year is baby cries and mum meets babies needs 30% of the time minimum. The second year baby cries not just for needs but to get what baby wants too, then you put boundaries in. Babies with boundaries are secure happy babies. The third year is teaching the toddler about being kind. That's the attachment theory. It is not baby must be with you 24/7. That's a parenting philosophy using attachment theory to sell it.

Just to say that it doesn't have to be all or nothing - my 18m old happily naps at nursery - she follows the others to the cots and tucks herself up. When she is with my parents - tends to fall asleep mid cuddle and then get transferred to a cot - for us - we co sleep. There isn't one size fits all a she happily adapts her sleep to who she is with.

@SnowWhitesSM Bowlby didn’t say anything about parents only needing to be attuned 30% of the time. There was one study on securely attached infants that showed that those parent-infant dyads were only in synchrony or attuned 30% of the time but that is very different from a parent only responding to their crying infant 30% of the time. A mismatch in attunement might be as simple as baby looking away when a mother was trying to engage her, or a moth looking away when a baby was looking up smiling. The repair in the relationship is usually seconds or minutes later.

Hi, my son is now 18mo. I got him self settling at about 6 months old by gradually changing things from feeding to sleep.

Firstly I introduced a comforter every time he fed and slept. I habit stacked and changed feeding to sleep to shush patting - started patting his bottom and shusshing whilst feeding then eventually he associated that with sleep and was able to pull him off the boob sooner then eventually shush patted him in the cot with the comforter in his mouth.

Then I moved on to leving him to self settle. Had a bit of crying when I left him to settle with the comforter but only had to go in and out a few times, think I timed crying of 4 mins. I calmed him down with cuddles and boob then put him back in the cot with the comforter when he was almost asleep. It took a while to get through all those stages but the final hurdle of leaving him on his own was easier than I thought.

The very first time I did it was for a nap, maybe first one? Is usually the easiest. At that stage he was on 3 naps a day, I could get him to self settle for first and second nap but 3rd one I would usually have to do in the pram or contact nap.

Having the comforter was good, he took it to nursery with him as he needed something he was attached to.

Good luck xx

I should have said that whilst I soothed him with boob it was recommended that this technique should only be used for babies under 6 months. The older they get the more aware they are and more stubborn so I think you'll probably have an easier time of it now rather than waiting till they're older.
It's AMAZING once they self settle and don't need to contact nap! Get so much more done 😀

No.

Did it with DC1, consistently for weeks. No improvement, infact got worse. Was awful.

Some people will say that studies shows it's stressful and cortisol levels remain increased (and some studies do show this). But others show the opposite so no one really knows. Some people want to err on the side of caution and not risk it, but then as others have said lack of sleep isn't exactly healthy, in babies or parents!
We tried a version of CC, did exactly what the sleep consultant said. After over a week of hours each night of DC still not settling and no improvement (in fact their sleep was worse at the end of it than before) we gave up. It just doesn't work for some babies unfortunately.

Despite all the comments on here, six months seems so very young for proper controlled crying... at that age, they're crying because they do actually need you, aren't they? Even if just for comfort?

That said, I'm in the minority here and know that there comes a point where you'll do anything to get some precious sleep.. but six months just seems so young.

@3WildOnes no but Ainsworth did and her research into it cannot be underestimated.

And Winnicot with the good enough mother.

Now we have Perry, Schore and the neuroscience backing that up.

But anyway, they're just theories and there are critics of attachment theory (westonised).

I'm not a theorist, I haven't done research. My own analysis is I agree with the good enough mother and attachment is attunement. It hasn't messed my dc up and I could have just been lucky with good sleepers.

I’ve read a lot of Ainsworth and winnicot and I do agree with his theory of the good enough mother. My point was that when coding videos of mother-infant dyads for attunement and synchrony you are looking at tiny interactions and missteps. It is not about a parent ignoring their child’s cries.
I don’t think CC will lead to an insecure attachment in the vast majority of cases. I think it may have the possibility of causing a rupture in the parent infant relationship in more sensitive children but this can be repaired.

We waited too long and our dc was much older but even at that first night I can’t quite remember but many hours, next night an hour maybe and the next 20 mins and then sleeping. Wished we did it at 6 months because they tore easily meaning less pain for you . It was horrific That first night sat outside the room .

Thanks everyone and apologies for causing a bit of a debate! Obviously I'm aware sleep training isn't very nice which is why I wanted to hear peoples experiences before I committed to it. Being a mum is hard and sometimes I question my own judgement and whether I'm doing everything wrong.

We did it at 4 montbs, took about 4 daya. I could tell the difference between dd's cries so knew when it was working and she would then fall asleep. We never let her get hysterical, and went in evey couple kf mina to shh. We started with night times, as during the day i could easily get her to nap in car or pushchair if needed,then did naps once bedtimes were sorted. Everyone slept so much better, and now she is 4yo loves her rokm, and snuggles down to go to sleep all by herself every night.

We tried it at 4m for about a week. She stayed awake for hours and got more distressed. Tried again at 6mo again stuck to the routine for a month it just didn't work for her.

I don't regret trying it, but it doesn't work for every baby. We just had to muddle through until she slept through at about 11months.

@3WildOnes - apologies, when I came back with ainsworth I thought I was right but have done a little checking today. It was Bowlby who further expanded on his theory and distinguished four stages of attachment. The first one is pre birth/up to six weeks - I did know this but forget about it .

I remember being in training when learning this a couple of years after completing my degree (using attachment theory in a lot of essays). It never came up in a lecture around the four stages. The trainer (well known and published) taught the majority of us in the room about Bowlby's four stages and tied it into other attachment theories.

You want to ship away all of his sleep dependencies/ crutches at once? You’ve taught him to nurse to sleep, to be held as he falls asleep, to daytime nap on you. Now it’s no longer convenient you expect him to drop all of those things at once? With a very short deadline.
You need to do this very slowly, tackling each sleep crutch at a time. It’s going to take longer than you think - well to do it fairly and kindly will.
I’ve got both against CC, I did it with my boys, but they weren’t Co sleeping or nursed to sleep.

When I would read DS his bedtime story I made a choice to put baby DD approx 5 months old in a room and shut the door with her crying at 7pm ish till she fell asleep

I figured DS would remember not being read to and she wouldn't remember a thing.

As it turned out after 3-4 days she just started to sleep at 7pm anyway so in concept yes sleep training does work. But probably not if you're just sitting there getting upset and listening to them cry.
Find something to keep you occupied.

Also interestingly DD to this day has a really good sleep pattern

DS who was not sleep trained, we just fell asleep at the same time, and just went with the flow.
He is a night owl like me so I wonder now if I contributed to that being an insomniac / night owl myself so I wasn't bothered by his sleep pattern as a baby

Please don't let your child cry themselves to sleep.

They're still so very young to cut out nutritional breast milk during the night.

Could you pump and your partner do some feeding through the night?

Do you bed share? I'm still feeding through the night 3+ years on but I don't lose sleep over it by bedsharing. I whip the boob out in my sleep.

@user97533676

Please don't let your child cry themselves to sleep.

They're still so very young to cut out nutritional breast milk during the night.

Could you pump and your partner do some feeding through the night?

Do you bed share? I'm still feeding through the night 3+ years on but I don't lose sleep over it by bedsharing. I whip the boob out in my sleep.

Controlled crying isn’t just letting your child cry themselves to sleep

Co-sleeping works for some people but to have your child breastfeeding in the night, 3 years on, is not something that would work for most people