7 yo wakes up at 5am and has to wake whole house

[ProudDadOfTwoBoys]

Hello, first time poster, hope dad's are allowed here!

I need help! Two lovely boys, 5 and 7. 5 yo is independent, chilled and goes to bed very well, no fuss or arguments, straight to sleep and will generally sleep in until 630 to 730.

However my 7yo is incredibly highly strung, super demanding on our attention, emotional and very argumentative. He's recently got into the habit of coming to the top of the stairs and shouting "are you down there / what are you doing / I'm too hot / too cold / can't sleep / when are you coming to bed" etc etc etc. Basically stalling. This can go on for an hour. It disturbs the 5 yo. We've tried various tactics, tons of positive reinforcement, nice activities, star charts, even £1 for every night he sleeps without shouting down, taking away treats like his tablet or sweets if he doesn't, nothing works.

Bedtime routine is consistent, teeth bath story bed.

Then in the morning he will get up anytime from 4am and wakes everyone up. We tell him to go back to sleep and occasionally he will until 5 or 530. No major problem during the week but it's becoming so tiring, we all wake up groggy and grumpy. He won't go downstairs on his own - he used to do this and was happy making his own breakfast and watching TV or playing with his toys until 630 or 7.

We've tried earlier bed, later bed, leaving books and even his tablet to play with when he wakes but he still has to wake us all up, over and over (every 10-15 mins) until at least one of us gets up with him. He then demands immediate play and attention the minute we're up.

It's draining. I totally accept that it's just part of his body clock and we need to make allowances, but any suggestions would be really appreciated.

What time does he go to bed? Does it make a difference whether a weekend or a school day?

I'd have lost the plot with this by now, he's 7 not 2. If he doesn't have SEN, I'd be reading the riot act - I know on here there's a lot of gentle parenting, but your child is getting a LOT of attention for this behaviour and it is working like a charm. If it were me, I would stop engaging with it, stop giving in to the demands and start being in charge of the situation. He's used to getting his own way so it will be painful for a while, but if there is no reason other than 'just because' that he is up so early, he needs to entertain himself quietly or go back to sleep. I do not do life very well when tired and his behaviour would break me.

Agree with PP. Stop giving him your attention! He is old enough to know better. A few days of "no screens or toys til 6.30am" - so he can wake you up as early as you like and someone will get up with him, but he won't be rewarded with one to one attention until a more reasonable hour. He will realise how bloody boring it is quickly enough.

Following because this is my life too.

We have a very strict bedtime routine, have done since he was a baby (because he was a shit sleeper then too). Same as you, it makes no difference. He takes about 2 hrs to go to sleep and in that time he is shouting, screaming or singing. He calls us up to ask pointless questions.

We are all exhausted but he will not sleep for more than 7/8 hrs. My DD (4) will happily draw or play by herself quietly in her room but DS (6) shouts and screams, stamps his feet or jabs us in the head until one of us gets up. He has done this for years. It puts me in a foul mood each day and makes it even harder to tolerate his behaviour during the day.

We are in the process of getting an ADHD/ADD assessment.

I’m with @Itonlytakesonetree. If no SEN do not engage. If he forces one of you up news only on, no kids tv. No tablet. No nice breakfast cereal nothing enjoyable. Set a timer on Alexa or if he can tell the time tell him before 7 nothing fun or nice happens. Enforce this daily. Eventually he will either sleep later because there’s no point getting up or at least you can have a cup of tea and watch what you want if forced up early.

I've a fairly similar issue with my (almost) 4 year old and 6 year old. Every morning they come into our room at 5am. Sometimes they do fall asleep in our bed, but most of the time they want to get up then. On occasion it will be even earlier 3/4am. They go to bed at 8pm.

Over the Christmas period I'd had enough and am making a point of saying to them at bedtime that they must stay in their beds until morning and to check if it's morning by looking out the window to see if there's any light. If it's pitch black, they are to stay in bed. I wasn't expecting this to work as no reasoning had before, but for some reason it seems to have! I've had 4 nights in a row where they've actually come in at 7-7.30. I've congratulated them on staying in their beds etc, the next morning and they seem to like the praise.

My youngest did protest at bedtime, saying that she might have a bad dream (which is the usual reason she gives for coming into our room - although it's always the same dream and I'm not convinced she's actually having one). I just said if she really needed to come in then of course she could, but that she should try really really hard not to until it's slightly light outside her window. She seemed ok with that and after the praise for staying in bed the next day, seems quite pleased with herself.

If it's not easy for your kids to check windows for daylight, you could try a Groclock?

My 7 year old with SEN would know better than this! He knows the rule is lie quietly until mummy says it's time to get up. Sometimes he sings or hums quietly but he understands just as he's up doesn't mean everyone else is. Is your child NT op? If so I'd be having a firm talk and going back to reward chart or possible consequences if he continues disrupting the household.

He's 7! Assuming no SEN you need to tell him like it is, just like @Itonlytakesonetree said.

My now 8yo has always been a 5-5.30am riser. From 5 the rule is that from 5.30 he can go downstairs or watch something on his tablet but not before. Then he can come into me from 7, though he doesn't really and waits until he hears me. I wouldn't be letting him wake me every morning and I've had to be really firm about it in the past. I would be taking things away and getting cross about it until it sunk in.

Does he have a clock? Maybe even a gro clock would work? A sticker chart (when I've done them in the past I've offered £10 in smyths as the reward). I think you'll have a few tough mornings putting into practice that we don't get up before 7 but it'l be worth it.

To the PPs
We do this. 6.30am during the week and 7am at weekends and holidays. We will not get up until then.
It makes zero difference. He sits outside our bedroom door shouting or comes in and jabs us repeatedly.
We carry him back to his bedroom (him screaming and shouting) but he just returns.
My DH is a soft touch and gives into him but I refuse to.

It does nothing to change the situation. DS wakes up between 5-6am and if he is awake the whole house has to be awake.

He goes to bed at 7pm weekdays, 730 Friday Saturday.

Have you asked him what his problem is?

When you say He's recently got into the habit of coming to the top of the stairs and shouting what did he do before this started?

How much later than his sibling does he go up? Maybe 20 mins 1-1 just before bed in his bedroom would help?

For the morning - would a dvd and a sandwich help? We bought a portable dvd player for our early riser.

People say 'read them the riot act' but it doesn't always work tbh, and just makes for a horrid home.

Thanks for your reply. It's hard to explain but almost like he's not deliberately trying to be difficult when he's up early, it just 'is what it is'. He's an early riser and being an attention hungry emotional boy he 'needs' one of us up. I don't know what the answer is, but starting to wonder about some psychological assessments may be needed.

That’s quite early for a 7yo imo. Have you tried a later bedtime for a week?

If me needs your presence could you try putting a blowup bed on your floor and he can come in but the rule is he comes in so he's not alone but he doesn't wake you up?

Thanks for your reply. It's not just us then, sorry to hear you're having the same mind numbingly difficult start to the day. This festive break has been absolutely exhausting. My wife is a nurse so been working throughout the holiday. I have a very high stress job so finish work excited for a break and quickly get so drained I almost look forward to going back to work - I hate myself for thinking that. It makes us all tired and grumpy all morning.

Where do you go for the ADHD/ADDD assessment, the GP?

Seven is old enough to understand not to do this. Treat it like any other form of rule breaking and be consistent.

I have a 6yo and 4yo always up between 5 and 6am every day. We have tried putting them to bed later but they actually wake up even earlier 🤷

I wish I knew what the solution was. I have just accepted early start today. I was too tired to stay up for the bells last night to see new year in.

@Itonlytakesonetree

I'd have lost the plot with this by now, he's 7 not 2. If he doesn't have SEN, I'd be reading the riot act - I know on here there's a lot of gentle parenting, but your child is getting a LOT of attention for this behaviour and it is working like a charm. If it were me, I would stop engaging with it, stop giving in to the demands and start being in charge of the situation. He's used to getting his own way so it will be painful for a while, but if there is no reason other than 'just because' that he is up so early, he needs to entertain himself quietly or go back to sleep. I do not do life very well when tired and his behaviour would break me.

This in spades.

Its a simple command.
If you wake early be quiet (Read... go downstairs and watch TV quietly) until x o'clock at 7

he does not "need" you up

Thanks for your reply, great for you to have had some solid success. We've tried the daylight thing, 2 different grow clocks, strict rules before bed about getting up, no engagement, telling him to get back into bed but whatever we do, he just comes back in over and over until we get up. It's not just that but it's the immediate 'i want to play a game, do Lego etc' with us.

Just a warning about the "is it dark outside" rule for getting up -in the summer sunrise is much earlier.

DS1 asked for an alarm clock when he was about 4. This was laughable, as he was also a child up at 5-something. However, it did start working. Sonething about knowing it wasnt time to wake, so rolled over rather than trying to read the clock I think. Aged 7, I'd go for a sunlight clock, not a groclock - which might be a bit childish. We have shifted the times over the years but basically, the light starts coming on 30 mins before they can get out of bed. They can read at that point. Then get up at the alarm. At weekends, we turn the alarm to silent, but leave the light to cone on in the unfounded hope they might sleep later- which they do aprox once a year.....
No tablets, no TV, no food, nothing too attractive before the alarm.
And yes, riot act read if they wake the rest of the house.

7pm bedtime is so early though..

Give him a gro clock and put it out of his reach so he can't change it then refuse to engage until the right time?

Does he like puzzles?

Could you leave a puzzle down stairs that he has to complete before he wakes you up?

A jigsaw or a word search.

You can make word searches online, and you can change the letters so you can give him a list of 10 words to find but there are only 9

Or you can say you need to find the same word three times, but again it's only 2 on the word search.

My 4 year old was up at 5 every morning! We got a gro clock and explained he can only leave his bed once Mister Sun wakes up at 7am. Never expected it to work but it did! From day one! Now even if he wakes up early, he stays in bed (singing to himself/playing with teddies) until 7am. Worth a try.