Clock change - 4.30am wake up

[mandygruff]

Well if I thought the early wake ups couldn't get any worse. Theyve now gone from 5am to 4.30 🤯 DS is 2.3 and I'm heavily pregnant so really wanna get sorted before DD arrives! Going to invest in a gro clock this weekend. He has been waking at 5am for a few months now. He goes to bed 6.30 usually asleep by 7 and has 1-2 hours in the day, he can't be overtired? He has had few bad nappies recently & has been asking for calpol, also this morning chewing on remote so I assume it's teeth today. Ahhh really hope the Gro clock works! Luckily I'm on mat leave but DH is exhausted x

We are having the same with our 19 month old, although minus any signs of teething. I’m finding it really soul destroying. On Sunday night he managed to go back to sleep for a bit longer after we did control crying (going in to his room every five minutes, telling him it’s still night time and to lie down). He was awake for 30 mins and then dropped off til 5:30am.

This morning we had a 4:30am wake up and tried the same thing but he didn’t go back to sleep. I finally got him up at 5:00am. Feel knackered, headachey and irritable.

Could the cold be waking them rather than the clock change?

He has been waking at 5am for a few months now. He goes to bed 6.30 usually asleep by 7 and has 1-2 hours in the day, he can't be overtired?

Not overtired. That s just a natural, normal wake up time for your bedtime.

Overnight sleep of 11h is the average for this age. Anything within the range of 10h-12h would be considered normal. Your child is having 10h overnight.

So your 6.30-7pm bedtime will reasonably give you a wake up from 4.30-5am onwards. You cant force more, because clearly your child is having enough sleep.

The answer is a much later bedtime.

If you're aiming for 7am wake up, make bedtime 9pm. Initially, for the 3 weeks it takes to shift his body clock, you may need to add in a power nap here and there to get him through to 9pm.

As PP said, if you want a later wake up time you need to push bedtime back, thats quite an early bedtime

As fatedestiny says! We have creeeped back to 7pm bedtime and it's 530am wake up. We need to move our bedtime back to 8pm

Mine only needs 10 to 11 hours overnight if he's having a 1 to 2 hour nap. So bedtime is 8pm here to get a 6 to 7am wake up

Bedtime is too early. Push it back by the same amount of extra time you want him to sleep on a morning and stick to the new routine for a while until it settles. We’ve had exactly the same with DS who’s almost 3 now and evenings became nightmarish for a while as he was tired and not used to being up later, but was worth it in the long run to have him (mostly!) sleeping until 7am.

@FATEdestiny it doesn't matter what time he goes to sleep , can be 9pm and he still wakes at 5am so that is not the issue.

[quote mandygruff]@FATEdestiny it doesn't matter what time he goes to sleep , can be 9pm and he still wakes at 5am so that is not the issue. [/quote]
He will do, because changing the body clock doesn't happen over night. It takes time and persistence. I usually say you need 3 weeks of consistent change to see a long term change in the body clock.

So that means for 3 weeks you should expect 9pm bedtimes and 5am wakes. Prepare yourself and baby accordingly to cope with the exhaustion.

Saying you put baby to bed at 9pm one time and he still woke at 5am is a nonsense in terms of long term routine change. It won't happen that quickly, especially as he has an engrained 6.30pm-4.30am routine currently. You may well not see a difference after a week - so 9pm will still result in 5am. You have to power through that in order to shift the body clock.

But anyway...

Even if you don't want to believe me that his body clock can change, at least know that the reason for his 5am wake is his bedtime. So if you want to keep the 6.30pm bedtime, move your own bed time do that a 5am is part of your daily routine. Maybe go for an early morning dog walk with baby.

@FATEdestiny thanks for the advice I'm just not sure I agree because when he wakes at 5 he is still extremely tired and not wide awake. He tries to go back to sleep but it's as if his body won't let him. Also this has only been happening recently, before then it was 6.30 wake ups which is much more acceptable. I couldn't possibly keep him awake any later as he is exhausted by 7 after nursery. Also it's not just a one off trying a later bed time, he have tried continuously which resulted in very bad behaviour due to overtiredness

It’s a self fulfilling prophecy, he’s exhausted after nursery as he’s up at 5 and so on. You could also try capping his nap to an hour so he’s getting less day sleep and therefore more tired at night - sounds like he’s still tired at 5am just not enough to sleep so he needs a little less day sleep to zonk him out for longer.

I couldn't possibly keep him awake any later as he is exhausted by 7 after nursery.

I don't doubt that, because he's been up since 5am (or earlier). As PP said, it becomes spiralling self fulfilling prophecy.

An earlier and or longer lunchtime nap may help him not be so exhausted in the evening. Being overtired causes early morning wakefulness too.

Adding in a teatime power nap (Maybe in the car on the way back from nursery?) might be another option to push bedtime later.

The complete opposite option would be to push for 12h nights by dropping the lunchtime nap completely. Your fears with this is that overtirednness continues to cause early morning waking and without the lunchtime nap there is no opportunity to catch up. I wouldn't do this or recommend it, two years old is very early to drop the nap. But it's an option if you can't/won't move bedtime later but need later mornings.

Definitely a sprial and a catch 22. I was so sceptical when everyone was like later bedtime. I was very moody about it 😂 and didn't believe it.

I did move her bedtime to 8pm and she slept after about a week past 530am whoop whoop 🤗 I know it can take 3 weeks though. And it was a very hard transition to get to 8pm and naps fitting in and a very grumpy lo. As fate said put lo to bed at 8pm and still had 530am wakeups and she was tired 😴 but we slugged through it.

But with the 3 to 2 naps earlier bedtime at 7pm. Now have 530am wake ups. So I will be pushing bedtime later, and moving whole day forward to get past 530am.

I know it sucks!

Hello! Up at 4.15 today agh. I will try and put him to bed later tonight and see how he go from there. I'm heavily pregnant so I really need to get it sorted in the next 5 weeks ideally 🙏🏼 he is quite hot this morning and I'm still thinking it could be teeth but willing to try anything at this point x

Give it a go. good luck 🤞 but also give it time to work, it was hard time when I did it. But it sorted it self out, and I know how you feel as I'm doing it now x

That is so much sleep for a 2.3 year old! Both of my nephews were pretty much done or on the way to being done with naps at that age and still only did maybe 11h at night.

Anyway, another agreement with @FATEdestiny. 10-11h at night with a 2h nap is a completely reasonable amount of sleep, just at the wrong time. It took us a good 4 or 5 weeks to bed in a later bedtime and hence a later morning start and we had a grumpy, overtired toddler on our hands while it happened, as mornings took longer to change than bedtime moving back. Sleep is now 8/8:30pm - 6:30/7pm with a 2h nap in the middle of the day. Bedtime at 7 for us was a complete non starter.

6:30-7am

@AliceW89 I feel like 8.30 is so late for a 2 year old. My nephews are 1 and 4 and both sleep 13 hours every night and still nap also so I think it depends on the child. The thing is he's not wide awake at 4am, he is crying and still tired, so obviously does need more sleep and something else is causing the early wake up. He usually wake at 6.30 so hopefully we will be back to that time soon!

It sure does depend on the child - the average total amount of sleep in 24h for a 2 year old ranges from 10-14 hours. Accepting where your child is on this spectrum and changing your expectations to match has been a game changer for me. Mine is a bit younger than 2 and definitely still needs a nap, but 13h sleep in 24 is top whack for us, hence the later bedtime. Anyway, hope you get a lie in soon, early starts are lethal let alone when ++ pregnant! x

My son has always needed a lot of sleep. He's the same age as your son. His bedtime now is 7.30 but if tired, 7. Just thought I'd share for reference. He typically sleeps 12hrs at night and naps 1 to 2 hours at lunch. He recently needed a lot more than that at night. More like 14 hours a couple of months ago.

He's not cold is he? 4am can be quite cold.

I used to put mine in the pram if they woke up before 5am and rock back to sleep. Could take an hour but broke the association that that was an acceptable time to get up.

I actually think your bedtime is right. I think bed at 6.30 to sleep at 7pm is right for that age. I would cap the nap at one hour and wake him no later than 1.30pm. We've done it recently with our DS 2.5 and its worked.

mandygruff I totally understand that you want to ‘sort’ sleep out before your baby is born but the arrival of a new sibling can in itself cause DC’s sleep to go a bit haywire as it’s obviously a big adjustment for them. I don’t want to be the voice of doom but I think it’s worth keeping in mind.

Sending solidarity and coffee on the early starts

[quote mandygruff]@AliceW89 I feel like 8.30 is so late for a 2 year old. My nephews are 1 and 4 and both sleep 13 hours every night and still nap also so I think it depends on the child. The thing is he's not wide awake at 4am, he is crying and still tired, so obviously does need more sleep and something else is causing the early wake up. He usually wake at 6.30 so hopefully we will be back to that time soon! [/quote]
8:30 isn’t at all late. Mine slept midnight till noon!