WT actual F

[MsFrog]

My nearly 7 month old DS wakes up EVERY NIGHT after 30/40 minutes. Whether I settle him in my arms or in his own cot. Every night. I have to essentially do bedtime twice every night. It is doing my head in. Why the f* is he doing this?!?!

My DD was doing the same at that age. What are his daytime naps like?

They are ok - he'll have three, a long one (1hr10/1hr30) and two short ones (30 mins). Sometimes the first one is long, sometimes the second. His last nap ends at 4.30. He goes down around 7/7.30, he seems tired but.not over tired...

Did you ever get to the bottom of it with hour DD, @Vicky1989x?

DS does this still at nearly 3. It’s always always always worse when he is either over tired or hot

@MsFrog it was that last nap that was causing it for my DD! I dropped to 2 naps and it worked.

Yep I would drop a nap too - sorry

I think it what is referred to as a “false start” caused by them being over or under tired. My DD was also doing this. I would see if you could extend the wake time between nap 1 & 2 and drop to two naps, and possible early bedtime for the time being, whilst he adjusts to two?

Might be overtired - 3 hours is quite a long wake window at 7 months, so maybe the gap between the last nap and bedtime is too long. I would try bringing bed time forward by half an hour and see if that helps.

Thanks for your thoughts, everyone. Some conflicting ideas... I'm going to try two naps today, see what happens! Might need a very early bedtime, though, which I'm a bit wary of... We'll see 🤷‍♀️

Although he's woken up at 2.30pm, so if @Cloudninenine is right, that's far too long for him to stay awake, even if bedtime is 6.30pm...

@MsFrog That would loosely follow the 2,3,4 routine. I was doing something similar then. When I dropped to 2 naps I pushed the other 2 slightly later so she was waking around 3/3:30 then bedtime at 7.

Thanks @Vicky1989x. Let's see how it goes! 🤞🤞

Never mind, he was a total mess by 5.30pm and went to sleep after screaming for 10 mins. 🙄

@MsFrog how are you getting baby to sleep at bedtime and naptime?

@FATEdestiny usually rocking in my arms and sometimes a dummy, but he can take or leave that. Sometimes patting and shushing in the cot works, and on a rare occasion he's settled himself, but it's been a while since that happened. Is that where I'm going wrong, do you reckon?

Yesterday, I let him sleep for 15 mins at 5.30pm then he was down for 7.15pm and funnily enough didn't wake after half an hour!

usually rocking in my arms and sometimes a dummy, but he can take or leave that. Sometimes patting and shushing in the cot works, and on a rare occasion he's settled himself, but it's been a while since that happened. Is that where I'm going wrong, do you reckon?

Yes, I think so. I am also trying to see where the consistency comes from in all 9f those different methods, seems very inconsistent to me (sometimes you try and leave him, sometimes in cot settling, sonetimes/usually rocking).

Being rocked to sleep in your arms and then being put down in the cot asleep is the healthiest of the habits. It's very important baby goes to sleep where he stays asleep. So if you're going to get him to sleep in your arms you'll develop better habits if he stays there - ie contact naps long term and cosleeping.

If you want him sleeping independently in the cot, he needs to go to sleep in there. Every night and always using a consistent settling method.

His naps (which are currently too short to consider dropping the third nap) could well improve if you follow similar methods for daytime naps too.

"Being rocked to sleep in your arms and then being put down in the cot asleep is the unhealthiest of the habits"

My son started this at 4mths old, I could have set a timer by him after going to bed with no problem he would wake up 40 mins later inconsolable. Turned out to be silent reflux.

@FATEdestiny

"Being rocked to sleep in your arms and then being put down in the cot asleep is the unhealthiest of the habits"

An analogy I heard/read about this that helps it make sense is...

Imagine going to sleep in your nice cosy snuggly bed and then waking up on the grass outside. You are going to be alarmed.

Hence the go to sleep where they'll stay asleep.

I know the logic and yet am about to transfer my sleeping newborn from my chest to her bed so I can have a shower, so I'm a raging hypocrit!

I remember my 1st doing this, though I think it was a bit earlier. Can't for the life of me rememeber the solution so am following as 5 day old DC3 is currently asleep on my chest. You have my sympathy, its infurating.

Thanks everyone for your input, especially your very considered response @FATEdestiny. Rocking him to sleep then putting him down has never been a problem, he's always slept really well from being little, so that's how we got in to it - but I can see how now he's older that might be a problem. I never thought about how inconsistent it all it (which is often due to having to put my toddler to bed at the same time), that's really eye-opening.

Yes, @Muststopeating, I know the logic too, but it's very hard to put into practice!

I also didn't think about his daytime sleep improving - the short naps are hard, he gets very tired and cranky A LOT, and we end up with an inconsistent routine all round. It's difficult, though, isn't it? They aren't (well, mine aren't!) robots, and he wakes up at different times in the morning, naps are different lengths, he's not great taking milk so we are having quite a lot of solids so there's a lot going on for him, poor little thing. Now that I think of it, I barely have a bedtime routine for him, and some nights I'm just trying to settle him and bung him down asap to get to the toddler

@Muststopeating, I meant my comment in solidarity with you, btw! Sounds a bit arsey reading it back 😂

[quote MsFrog]@Muststopeating, I meant my comment in solidarity with you, btw! Sounds a bit arsey reading it back 😂[/quote]
Don't worry at all, I was just re reading mine too to check I didn't come across as being a know it all!

You don't sound arsey. Sleep deprivation sucks and is definitely not condusive to trying to find the right tone in text form.

Being rocked to sleep in your arms and then being put down in the cot asleep is the unhealthiest of the habits

Unhealthy for some, perfectly healthy and working perfectly for others. What a judgemental, patronising and ridiculous comment.

Going to sleep in a different place to where waking up is an unhealthy sleep habit blinkthreetimes. There is no judgement in saying that, just factual.

You will note that I did not suggest being rocked to sleep or cuddled to sleep in the parents arms is "bad" or place any judgement on it. There are well established ways to make attachment parenting work to develop healthy sleep habits in the long term. Being rocked to sleep and them put down to sleep independently isn't it.

I can go into the biological reasons for it if you like? It's not dissimilar to the analogy Muststopeating gave above.

(I do, in fact, know my stuff).

@FATEdestiny is it unhealthy even if it "works"? Or does it never really work, does it always come back to haunt you?

Tonight I sat by him in the cot for ages letting him wind down and try to fall asleep. Eventually, he was just exhausted and his crying was ramping up, so I picked him up and rocked him. (I know) But he went down easily and hasn't stirred since.

Until he started the waking after 30mins thing, I always rocked him to sleep and he sleeps through lovely, waking twice briefly to feed.

But I don't know my shit. I messed up sleep with my DS1 and had a bit of a nightmare with him for ages. He still needs one of us to be with him to fall asleep and wakes at some point nearly every night needing/wanting a cuddle. I'm trying to do better this time.

Learning to go to sleep where you stay asleep is a necessary skill to learn from the Fourth Trimester onwards.

If you like cuddling to sleep, why not cosleep? That is helping baby learn to go to sleep where they stay asleep.

I've just wrote a post with a very similar issue to yours. Hold up, I'll copy and paste it to save me writing it again.