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Sleep

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42 replies

MsFrog · 18/07/2021 19:35

My nearly 7 month old DS wakes up EVERY NIGHT after 30/40 minutes. Whether I settle him in my arms or in his own cot. Every night. I have to essentially do bedtime twice every night. It is doing my head in. Why the f* is he doing this?!?!

OP posts:
FATEdestiny · 20/07/2021 20:41

Similar aged baby and parents struggling with settling baby for night wake ups, they rock to sleep. See here:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/sleep/4301152-Seven-month-old-sleep-is-awful

There are loads of different ways to go about teaching baby to sleep in the cot. Some are harsh and fast, some are slow and gentle, and everything in between. But all the ways you could look at to improve baby's sleep all come down to the same thing - get baby to go to sleep where they will stay asleep, and don't move them once asleep.

The gentlest option would be to abandon the cot. Cuddle baby to sleep lying on your bed and leave him there.

The next most gentle option would be to think about ajourney towardsindependant sleep in the cot, but that this will be very gradual over many months. For example slow down your rocking until after a few weeks you're just cuddling to sleep. Then iver time put baby down at infinitesimally less states of being fully asleep. Start with cuddling for 30 mins after falling asleep before putting down. A week later cuddle for 28 minutes. Then 25 and so on, until putting down just as going to sleep and doing in-cot cuddling for the rest of the 30 mins. Then put down a few mins before fully asleep for in-cot cuddling, and so on.

There are then various ways to do the same as above, but at a faster pace. This will involve more tears and distress, but get to the end point faster. For example start off with baby in the cot awake. Baby will cry. Lots of bending into the cot to comfort. Consider a sidecar cot. Hand on baby's chest helps for reassurance. Stay calm. Stay compassionate. Stay through all the crying and keep caring. Then over time baby will get more used to going to sleep in the cot and gradually you reduce the input you need to give.

Another option is called Pick up Put Down. It is similar to above but after set periods of time (say every 5-10 mins of in-cot settling) you pick baby up for a cuddle to calm (but not sleep). Then put back down and start again. Thus helps for people who thrive on predictable routines - I do 1 min of cuddling I'm the cot, 1 min of hand in chest and face close to baby's, 2 min if patting and shushing, then pick up for 39 sec. Then start again. Some babies get frustrated by being picked up though, and it breaks the flow of going to sleep.

The harshest of options is called controlled crying. You put baby in cot with minimal fuss, leave for a set amount of time (say 1-3 mins), return, check baby is safe, brief reassure and leave again. Repeat until asleep.

blinkthreetimes · 20/07/2021 20:45

@FATEdestiny

The word unhealthy most certainly does imply that you think it is bad.

What on earth is unhealthy about cuddling your child to sleep, who then happily is placed into their bed and sleeps all night I’ve no idea.

You might “know your stuff” but you also come across as incredibly incapable of accepting anything other than your rigid ways.

FATEdestiny · 20/07/2021 20:47

I'm not here to argue with you blink. Good luck.

MsFrog · 20/07/2021 21:08

I posted at the end of my tether the other night asking for advice, so I am glad to have had some! But I am confused about it being inherently "unhealthy" to cuddle him and put him down if he then sleeps (assuming the waking after 30mins thing has stopped, it's only been 2 nights!) - is it likely to cause problems later on?

OP posts:
Elune · 20/07/2021 21:09

My DD did this at the same age. It was just a phase and she grew out of it. Sleep is weird like that.

MsFrog · 20/07/2021 21:11

I would also say, I'm happy to co-sleep too, and sometimes I do if he's a bit fussy after a bottle. So maybe I'm just a bit mixed up, not doing the same thing every night! I just did whatever was easiest with my first, but that led to loads of problems, and which is why I keep asking questions, @FATEdestiny - you seem to have done a lot of research in to baby sleep and I want to set DS2 up with good habits!

OP posts:
MsFrog · 20/07/2021 21:12

Haha thanks @Elune - maybe I'm way overthinking this!

OP posts:
Elune · 20/07/2021 21:17

We could set our clock by it - it was 45 minutes after she went to sleep every time, which I guess is to do with when they join sleep cycles or something. It really was on the dot every time! I can't remember how long it lasted but we just kept doing the same thing and it stopped. She's 2.5 now and sleeps great.

SquigglePigs · 20/07/2021 21:31

DD did exactly the same thing. At that age she was fed to sleep then rocked to sleep after that first wake up. She stopped of her own accord after a few weeks. Did it again occasionally but never for too long.

If it reassures you at all from other comments DD was fed to sleep (or rocked) for bedtime and naps when she was small and only contact napped (or pram/car seat) - she has been going to sleep happily in her cot since she was 13 months old with relatively little difficulty in the transition (think we timed it right to be honest - she was as ready as we were!).

Just want to say hang in there. He'll get there.

FATEdestiny · 20/07/2021 22:00

@MsFrog

I posted at the end of my tether the other night asking for advice, so I am glad to have had some! But I am confused about it being inherently "unhealthy" to cuddle him and put him down if he then sleeps (assuming the waking after 30mins thing has stopped, it's only been 2 nights!) - is it likely to cause problems later on?
FATEdestiny- you seem to have done a lot of research in to baby sleep

It's my day job. I'm a baby sleep consultant.

OK - The unhealthy sleep habit comes specifically from being got to sleep one way, and waking elsewhere. So there is nothing (zero, nada, zilch) "unhealthy" about cuddling baby to sleep.

The healthy way to approach that would be to properly embrace cosleeping. So baby goes to sleep cuddling you, moves around in the night cuddling you, wakes cuddling you. All good.

Now for the more detailed explanation I need to back up a bit....

Babies in the womb sleep passively. By that I mean as long as all needs are met, baby will be asleep. There are no sleep cycles. This continues through the "Fouth Trimester", the first 3-4 months of life when sleep is very womb like and passive.

Past about 4 months, sleep irreversibly progresses. It changes to be a more active endeavour with cycles of deep sleep and light sleep. Sleep is no longer passive, it takes active effort to get baby to sleep. (This is sometimes called the 4 month sleep regression).

Why do humans sleep in cycles and not just have continuous sleep? The answer is evolutionary, it's a left over from cavemen times. Mammals are at risk to preditors, even when sleeping. To keep themselves safe we developed cycles of sleep which include an "environment check". This is a largely unconscious, but partially semi-concious period check throughout our sleep to ensure we continue to be safe.

This is why humans sleep in cycles. There will be a period of light sleep when its/easy to be woken, a period of deep sleep when vulnerable to dangers, and interspersed, brief environment checks between cycles.

In modern day adults this environment check may take the form of rolling over, pulling the duvet up/down, changing positions. Semi-concious few seconds that you don't actually wake up for and barely notice.

Now imagine you want to bed as normal and at 2am you want to roll over and suddenly realised you were no longer in bed, you're now in the back seat of a car. You wouldn't just roll over and go back to sleep. You'd be immediately sat up, disoriented, thinking WTF!?, and be wide awake pretty damn fast. That's the whole purpose of the environment check, it's what it's for. Most of the time you roll over and think nothing of this pause in sleep. But when it's needed, you wake up FAST.

From 4 months onwards, baby is learning to deal with these changes in sleep. From passive sleep to active sleep and learning to deal with sleep cycles, light sleep phase and environment checks - all of this is new.

As baby gets older, if baby is triggered to wake more fully than is necessary regularly between sleep cycles, it's going to be harder for them to learn to link consecutive cycles and in the mean time sleep will be more disruptive than it needs to be.

You child will, ultimately learn to go to sleep where they stay asleep. It's a necessary skill for an older child to learn (be it preschool, school age, teenager, adult). Now that might always be going to sleep with mum in mum's bed. That's ok, nothing wrong in that. But it will not be helpful for, say, a 10yo/15yo/5yo/3yo (whatever) to be falling asleep on the sofa in front of the TV every night and being carried to bed already asleep. That is not a healthy sleep habit. That child would have an unhealthy sleep habit, that will disturb their normal natural bodily sleep cycles.

blinkthreetimes · 20/07/2021 22:21

@FATEdestiny

I don’t need your luck. I have a toddler who happily sleeps 12+ a night having been cuddled to sleep and then placed, shock horror, into their bed.

It is very good for OP to get a balanced view that includes people saying that cuddling to sleep and then not co sleeping can be perfectly healthy and work fine.

OP, is cuddling to sleep is working for you, why change it

FATEdestiny · 20/07/2021 22:41

@blinkthreetimes

DS does this still at nearly 3. It’s always always always worse when he is either over tired or hot
Can't think why?
samwitwicky · 20/07/2021 22:49

My kid used to do this. Started bedtime a little earlier. Solved the problem.

Apparently if they are showing signs of being tired they are already overtired iyswim

October2020 · 20/07/2021 22:49

Guys, it's just the Internet. It really isn't worth getting this worked up over.

I cuddle my baby to sleep too. She is a bloody awful sleeper but she can do is wake up and resettle herself... just never after that first 45min wake up, if she does. I agree with the posters saying about over/undertired - if she goes down super easy, she will without a doubt wake up 45mins later. I don't know what the solution is when naps etc are unpredictable but they're not babies forever. It does get easier x

blinkthreetimes · 20/07/2021 22:55

@FATEdestiny

Ahhh yes, my child waking up on the odd occasion when he is over tired really counters everything I’ve said.

Christ, I wouldn’t be paying you to help anyone if you’re incapable of supporting other views.

Quite a consultant you are. More my way or the high way.

MsFrog · 21/07/2021 07:05

Thank you for such a long, detailed response, @FATEdestiny. It makes sense to hear you're a sleep consultant! It sounds like ultimately I'll have to address the rocking him to sleep, as it will eventually be a problem, something that he needs to learn to do (can't rock him forever, he's already huge!). He obviously doesn't wake up and get a fright at being in the cot every time now, but sounds like he will when he's older. Thanks for taking the time to pass on all that info when you already do it all day long!

Thanks @October2020 @samwitwicky @blinkthreetimes and everyone saying they do it and sharing their stories. You're right, October, it's not forever. I just lost my temper the other night when I posted, but I know all these things pass

OP posts:
EmmaJR1 · 21/07/2021 07:14

@blinkthreetimes

Being rocked to sleep in your arms and then being put down in the cot asleep is the unhealthiest of the habits

Unhealthy for some, perfectly healthy and working perfectly for others. What a judgemental, patronising and ridiculous comment.

I thought the same @blinkthreetimes Both dc were rocked and fed to sleep and bar the dreaded 4 month sleep regression and a weird period at around 2 1/2 years where they woke stupidly early for a couple of months both mine see excellent sleepers.

Dc1 7-7 from 8 weeks bar the odd night feed but straight back to sleep.

Dc2 7-7 from About 12 weeks.

Ultimately op I think look at your naps and then do bedtime how you are comfortable.

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