I'm utterly broken with this. Please help me.

[OhToBeASeahorse]

DD is 8 months. She is breaking me. I've tried so so hard. I know the right things to do but it just isnt working.

She is on 2 naps a day. I actually think she needs a 3rd but she wont fall asleep til gone 5 and then everything just gets stupidly late.

We were cosleeping up til about a month ago. She was waking every 2 hrs to feed and it just wasnt working. So we tried the cot. It started off well. I gradually reduced support so often she was falling asleep just with a hand on her. I started trying morning naps in the cot and she was doing an hour. But now it is usually only 30 mins. I'm doing lunch naps in the sling so she gets a good 2 hours.

But now it's like I can't do anything. She wants me to cuddle her but then wont even settle like that. I then have to lay her down and sometimes she will settle and other times will cry again til I pick her up again. Last night I had an hour of screaming that i couldnt stop. On a good night she wakes 4 times. On a bad one could be 10.

We had a sleep consultant for our first and they said:
Go to a 2-3-4 routine doing whatever you need.to do to get good naps.
Night wean
Then gradual retreat and then once you've started do naps the same.

But I cant seem to night wean her..I'm broken from trying and failing. I cant keep doing sling naps, I have a toddler too.

I honestly want to hurt myself.
Then gradual retreat.

I could have written this myself. My DD is coming up to 8 months next week and I have a 2.5yo DS.
DD has never been a good sleeper but like you, a good night is around 3-4 wake ups whereas bad is 10 plus. We live in a 2 bed flat so she’s in with us. I BF her to sleep at wake ups as it’s the quickest thing but sometimes I can’t tell what she wants. She often gets angry and more worked up if held and rocked but can’t fall asleep independently.
I feel so stressed about her sleep and I am so exhausted. It’s really affecting my mental health. Things reached a low last week and I finally accepted that I need help sharing the load so the last 2 nights DH has gone in with her and I’ve slept on the sofa. She hasn’t needed feeding overnight and actually fed better in the day because of this so that’s given me some confidence to try night weaning although i am sure my resolve will fade when I’m back in with her. Can your DH help at all? My DD doesn’t take a bottle but she does have a dummy which helps.
Im sorry not to have any advice but you’re not alone. It’s horrible.

If you want independent sleep then you need all sleeps in the cot by now. She needs to fall asleep in the cot, not be out in there asleep. And it needs to be consistent.

But now it is usually only 30 mins

It's harder work to extend naps in the cot. You could try patting her throughout? This would help her through the sleep cycle to extend the nap.

Another option would be to focus on independent sleep for now - so she goes from awake to asleep in the cot every time - and accept shirt naps. Compensate by having more naps per day.

If neither of these are possible then how about naps in the pram (parked in the house) so you can jiggle the pram? This is better than a sling for independent sleep. It matters that baby is put down awake and goes to sleep independently of you.

sometimes she will settle and other times will cry again til I pick her up again

She WILL cry. Don't assume what you are doing isn't working because she's crying. Without the ability to suck, your baby will cry. There is no Ifs and no buts about it.

Don't pick her up and disrupt the process of settling her independently on the basis that she's crying. Crying is just telling you that she's tired and wants to be asleep. Carry on comforting her in the cot, through all the crying.

She has a dummy so can suck. She is normally awake when she goes in just sometimes very drowsy

At 8 months old I would stop messing around with gradual retreat and just sleep train quickly and properly using controlled crying.

I was a fully paid up attachment parent until lack of sleep nearly broke me at a similar age. Honestly, it is the best thing I ever did.

There is a MASSIVE separation anxiety peak at 8 months. It’s not that they are being difficult - they NEED to be close to you. It’s a phase and it will pass.

What happens when she wakes in the night?

Gina forde had mine sleeping through after about two weeks of starting it but you need to be prepared to let her cry. And stopping breast feeding, they just fill up and take more food at one time with a bottle. Not popular but work

A mixture. Sometimes putting my hand on her works, sometimes it doesnt. I feel like everything hangs on night weaning and it just isnt working.

I feel like I'm.having a nervous breakdown

Why can't you night wean, what is stopping it? Is she feeding to sleep? Needing the comfort In order to calm down? What specifically is holding you back?

Sometimes the only thing that calms her is a feed but I'm also worried she genuinely seems to need them.

I tried to take her for a drive for a 3rd nap, was t having any of it, so then she was tired at dinner and wouldnt eat anything. I'm putting her to bed early.

What's her usual daytime routine? Including sleep, meals and milk.

There's a chicken and egg situation with nighttime calories. If she's having milk at night she will need fewer calories the next day. But by having fewer calories during the day, she'll need the night time calories.

While she is capable of taking 100% of her calorie need during the daytime and 0% at night, to get there you need to break the cycle. So that means not feeding when genuinely hungry, so that by the next day baby has higher calorific need.

The can be complicated when night feeds are needed not for calories, but for comfort. Comfort is just as important as calories in terms of basic human needs. But if you have comforting mechanisms that don't involve feeding, then I would just go cold turkey and stop. This is most easily managed by Dad rather than Mum, just for the first few days/week.

Up at 7 ish. If she wakes v ealry I give her a little nap at 7am.

Breastfeed 7am
Breakfast 8am
An hours nap no earlier than 8.30 and awake no later than 10.30

Breastfeed 11am
Lunch 12
A 2 hour nap no earlier than 12.30 and awake no later than 4.

Breastfeed at 3 ish

Dinner 5pm

Breastfeed 6pm

Bath 6.15

Bed 6.45

She fed 4 times last night. Not touched solids today really

I'm another advocate of controlled crying. It works. And didn't involve much crying for my two.

@OhToBeASeahorse

She fed 4 times last night. Not touched solids today really

There's the chicken and egg situation I mention. I would go cold turkey on those night feeds. Stop completely.

Is that your aimed-for schedule or actual (on average) schedule? Im trying to figure out why you think a third nap is needed?

Yes I agree re chicken and egg.

She is always on the earliest edge of the windows, so today she woke at 2.40. I put her to bed at 6.15 and she was absolutely ready. 4 hours is just too long for her

2.40pm is a perfectly reasonable time to wake up. If you had a school run to do it would be perfect. Then either a 4.30pm short power nap and an 8.30-9pm bedtime, or a 6.30pm bedtime which is what you did. Both are ok. Particularly while getting very broken nights, am early night may well be better for her. So I wouldn't worry about this aspect of your routine.

I think you need to focus on in-cot settling. All the time. Every night wake up, every nap. So stop the sling nap and also night wean and deal with all the comforting overnight in-cot. I'd do it all together, all in one go at the same time.

Bear in mind that when baby learns to pull to standing, that this type if sleep training will be significantly more difficult. Better to do it sooner rather than later.

It's the 8/9 month sleep regression. It's a killer (much worse than the 4 month one). It'll pass OP.

Shes already woken twice. I now cant get her back and DS needs to be put to bed

Is her dad around? Get him to do the night times until she's weaned.

Maybe start by having a dream feed at 10pm - ideally pick her up and feed her in her sleep. Then if she wakes between then and 6am, dad goes in with water and cuddles.

I now cant get her back

The idea of in-cot settling is you don't puck her up. Then there is no need to get her back down.

What are you doing When she wakes up?

(Btw, if she went to bed only 45 mins/ago and has already woken twice, I put it up you that she hasn't actually "woken twice", it's more that she's still in the phase of going to sleep and isn't yet in her deep night time sleep. She needs more help to get there.

Are you doing bedtimes alone?

I'm sure you're right

Don't be despondent

Yours is an entirely solvable situation. If you are doing bedtimes alone, is aim to do the eldest first. This then gives you the time to focus on youngest. Plus you can go to bed yourself with youngest, if needed (assuming cot is in your room)