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We need new ideas to help nearly 8mo DD sleep

45 replies

Needsleeeeepsendheeeelp · 25/06/2021 17:11

Sorry, this is long...

My nearly 8mo DD has never been a good sleeper. Things are better now than they were (she was waking every 40-60 minutes for the first 4 months) but her sleep is erratic and unpredictable, and we're just at a bit of a loss of what to do.

She is formula fed, on prescription milk for cmpa, and eats 3 good meals a day. She tends to have one bottle overnight (sometimes two), this can be any time from 10pm-2am. We've tried to not feed her at the earlier time, but sometimes once she starts crying she just won't settle, so we have to do it early.

I am not expecting her to be sleeping through yet (although of course it would be nice!), and if it was just one or two feeds I was up for, I'd cope fine. But she regularly wakes and needs settling at other times on top, and frequently wakes at 4/5am and can cry for well over an hour before going back off.

This is the routine we aim for: up at 6am, nap 8.30/9 until 10am, nap 12.30-2.30, then we do dinner at 4.45/5pm, bath at 6 and final bottle before bed at 6.30pm. All times are ish.

The issues/questions we have are, as above, she is regularly waking at 4/5am and being impossibly difficult to resettle, and we don't know how to prevent this?

I've agonised over her nap times etc, but I can't see much I can change in that, particularly because I have to work around the school run.

When we put her down for her nap, she screams the house down. We don't feed to sleep, she gets put into the cot and into her sleeping bag, and she just goes ballistic. She will go off to sleep in about 5 minutes, but it's bloody torturous. We'd love for this not to happen but I don't know how?

And the wakings that aren't for a feeding. Why? How do we stop these?

We took her to a cranial osteopath when she was little, which to be honest didn't make loads of difference. We also paid a sleep specialist for advice, a plan and ongoing support, and she did help to improve things, but not as much as we'd hoped. Possibly because DD was only 4mo when we hired her, so was too young really to sleep train?

She does fall asleep independently (after all the screaming), sometimes she falls asleep on her bedtime bottle, sometimes not, doesn't seem to make a difference. We try not to lift her out of the cot when she wakes, we ssh and pat etc. We don't rush in when she cries out, so she does have the opportunity to get herself back off.

She doesn't have a dummy - we're considering offering her one to see if this helps, but if feels like a regressive step to do this?!

Her room is really dark (two blackout blinds and blackout curtains 😂) and we have white noise on and a lullaby bear. She has a teddy comforter, and we use the same putting down method every day, so the environment is consistent.

I'm also aware she's close to the 8m sleep regression, so if she's in that early it may be behind the worsening of things of late. She's nearly crawling, so developmentally this could be impacting too.

I know there's no magic fix, but honestly any suggestions to help would be amazing. Would you offer a dummy at this stage?! Any specific sleep training methods that we could try? Would you make changes to the nap times? Please. Thank you.

OP posts:
Are your children’s vaccines up to date?
Needsleeeeepsendheeeelp · 25/06/2021 19:27

Anyone?

OP posts:
NavigatingAdolescence · 25/06/2021 19:31

You’re putting her to bed at 6:30pm. What time do you expect her to wake up? (Mine went to bed closer to midnight at that age and slept till late morning.). Have you tried moving bedtime later?

There’s also a separation anxiety peak at 8months.

Wnikat · 25/06/2021 19:34

Try to cut the bottles out overnight. Pat/ shush/ offer water. Will take a few bad nights but should make a difference.

Some babies are just bad sleepers though, sorry to say. I had a bad one and he slept brilliantly from 15 months but couldn’t crack it before then.

Wnikat · 25/06/2021 19:35

I would still be doing 3 naps at this stage. Just 10/15 minutes 2 hours before bedtime in the sling/ buggy if necessary. But mine went to bed at 7/7.30

edin16 · 25/06/2021 19:38

Your post is long so I might answer in a few comments...

You've said about introducing a dummy, what about a comforter instead?

I never really had to night wean but why don't you try reducing how much milk is in the bottle? Or will she just drain it then yell for more?

I had a rule at that age when we were going through early wakings that there was no nap before 9am, and it was no more than one sleep cycle.

Is there not an 8 month sleep regression? You said she's always been bad but could she be showing some signs of that? DS is a really bad sleeper, so much so that I never really noticed his first 2 regressions except for he woke up crying hysterically instead of just wingeing.

For putting her to sleep you say you put her in her sleeping bag and she screams...is that the only 'trigger' you give her for going to sleep? For example with DS, we go into his room and turn his dream sheep on, then I lie him in the cot and put his sleeping bag on him. At this point he knows it's time to sleep. Then once he's in his bag I get him out and we have a cuddle and a book (or two if he wants) then he goes into the cot and he falls asleep then.

DS is 12.5 and has slept through a grand total of...once (last night) so I'm by no means an expert but I know how desperate it can get and you just need to feel like you're trying something!

ApplesandBananas21 · 25/06/2021 19:40

She needs a later bed time.
I think she also still needs a third nap.
I would rather give her a bottle at 10pm than 2am and it may help her stretch longer.

FATEdestiny · 25/06/2021 19:53

Has she had a dummy previously?

Needsleeeeepsendheeeelp · 25/06/2021 20:02

Thanks all ☺️ yes, sorry I know its a long post.

Our aim is for her to get up for the day at 6am or after. She absolutely refuses the third nap of the day, has done for about a month now no matter what we tried, and I have to do the school run at 2.40 so I can't let her sleep any later than 2.30 - if we then keep her up beyond 6.30 she'll just become overtired.

@ApplesandBananas21 we tried dream feeding at 10 for a while, but it made no difference. We could try it again now she's a bit older though.

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AnnaBegins · 25/06/2021 20:08

She is still really young, at the age where 2 feeds in a night is not unusual and if she's waking for milk she clearly needs it. I have so much sympathy, but honestly it sounds like she is a normal baby. With my first baby, we tried to cut night feeds too early and it just led to longer awake stretches overnight when milk would have settled. My 23 month old (second baby) still has the occasional overnight feed, which is not ideal but better than a long awake session.
There's things you can do like a slightly later bedtime, but otherwise it sounds like you are doing a great job and she will get there in her own time.

Orangeinmybluelightcup · 25/06/2021 20:09

Personally i would do controlled crying with timed interval checks when she wakes in the night. I know many on mn don't agree with sleep training and no one wants to do it. But it sounds like you're getting a lot of tears anyway and no sleep for you or her. It's usually quick and effective.

Orangeinmybluelightcup · 25/06/2021 20:12

However it would be fair enough to decide she's too young, just re-read nearly 8m. Depends just how close to the edge you are maybe!

Needsleeeeepsendheeeelp · 25/06/2021 20:12

@edin16 she has a teddy which she sucks on, is that the kind if thing you mean?

Yes, we could try giving her a smaller bottle. Will try anything! 😂

I might try capping the morning nap and pushing it back. Again, it clashes with the school run 😐

Yes, it could be particularly bad at the moment because of the 8m regression. As you say, it's hard to know because the base level is so bad.

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Needsleeeeepsendheeeelp · 25/06/2021 20:14

@FATEdestiny she did for a bit, we stopped giving it at about 4m as the sleep specialist suggested it was detrimental for her. She didn't miss it at all. We're at the clutching at straws stage now though!

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Orangeinmybluelightcup · 25/06/2021 20:17

Worth thinking about whether her morning nap is too late, I think 1.5hrs then back to bed. Would normally think 2hrs but her night time sleep is very fractured so she'll be over tired.

Needsleeeeepsendheeeelp · 25/06/2021 20:18

@AnnaBegins I'm not in a rush to get rid of night feeds altogether - she definitely needs them still. It's the screaming when she goes down and the long stints of crying in the night that we can't do anything about that I'm trying to solve ☺️ thank you. It's so easy to feel like we're missing something or doing something wrong, but as @Wnikat says as well, some babies are just not good at sleep, and I think we might have one of those.

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Lostmyway86 · 25/06/2021 20:20

Just to say U don't agree that bedtime is too early. I have an almost 8 month old and our routine is similar....up at 6am, nap 1 9.15-10.30, nap 2 1.30-3, dinner 4pm, bed 6.30pm. She does sleep through I'm lucky I know, but my first DD (23 months) didn't and I'm agraid controlled crying was the way we cracked it. Is she in her own room? That also helped with both mine. DD2 has a dummy but I sneak in and take it out once she's asleep. We went down to 2 naps at 4 months and I will go down to 1 nap hopefully around 11 months same as DD1. Your routine sounds perfect to me. How much milk is she having? My DD2 had 7oz 7am, breakfast 8.30am, lunch 11.30am, 6oz 12.30pm, dinner 4pm, 7oz 6.30pm. So 3 meals and 3 bottles x

NavigatingAdolescence · 25/06/2021 20:21

Why can’t she sleep during the school run?

I’d add in a third nap to push bedtime back myself.

Needsleeeeepsendheeeelp · 25/06/2021 20:21

Thanks for the suggestions @Orangeinmybluelightcup the sleep specialist gave us a gentle sleep training programme, but she was too young at the time so we couldn't see it through to the end. I need to do more research into another training method.

In general, she is up 2-2.5 hours before her first nap, and she still fights going to sleep when we go to put her down, so we are starting to think that she needs to go down later. It's so hard to figure out what is right!

OP posts:
Lostmyway86 · 25/06/2021 20:22

*I don't agree

CustardyCreams · 25/06/2021 20:24

I remember the angst of naps clashing with school run , so hard. No magic solution for you I’m afraid, we just limped through!

Sounds like you are doing lots right. Nap in a baby sling for a third nap, whilst walking to school?

Needsleeeeepsendheeeelp · 25/06/2021 20:25

@NavigatingAdolescence the school is a 10-15 minute drive away, and I can't transfer her from car seat to cot / vice versa without her waking. So she'll tend to go down for her afternoon nap at 12.30, and I have to get her out of bed to go and pick up, and that's her awake then. We've tried everything for a third nap but she just screams.

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Temple29 · 25/06/2021 20:30

I think adjusting your nap times could help. I would only have her up for 1.5-2 hours after she wakes in the morning at the age in the hope it would stop her being overtired later. In terms of waking her for the school run, is there any way you could have her sleep in the buggy to let her sleep later?
My 9 month old’s schedule is:
7:00 wake
9:00 nap
10:30 wake
1:00 nap
3-3:30 wake
7:00 bed

Hope that helps!

Needsleeeeepsendheeeelp · 25/06/2021 20:30

Thank you @Lostmyway86 yes she's in her own room - it did help a bit, thankfully. In terms of feeding, she's very erratic again. She'll only take about 2-3oz when she wakes, about 6.30/7am. She has breakfast at 7.30, about 4oz at 10.30, lunch at 11.30/12, then 4-5 oz after school run (3.15ish), dinner at 4.45, 6-7oz at bedtime at 6.30, and overnight varies. Generally it's 3 meals and 5 bottles, but sometimes she'll flat out refuse a bottle in the day so we know she relies on the night feeds for now.

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Orangeinmybluelightcup · 25/06/2021 20:30

If you haven't already then look up wake times for her age rather than sleep times, the max window of time they should be awake. I used to find that more useful.

I ended up using a sleep consultant at 10m for my 2nd dc. We did controlled crying and tweaked his routine. It worked, and quickly, and with hardly any crying actually. She then helped us with our dd then 4yo who was having serious sleep issues. Both sleep through now but ds4yo still wakes at 5:45! So sending sympathy... And coffee.

NavigatingAdolescence · 25/06/2021 20:32

[quote Needsleeeeepsendheeeelp]@NavigatingAdolescence the school is a 10-15 minute drive away, and I can't transfer her from car seat to cot / vice versa without her waking. So she'll tend to go down for her afternoon nap at 12.30, and I have to get her out of bed to go and pick up, and that's her awake then. We've tried everything for a third nap but she just screams.[/quote]
And she can’t stay sleeping in her car seat because……?

(Appreciate I only had one but she didn’t nap in a cot ever so it was very easy to just fit her naps in wherever we were for years - pram/sofa/car.)

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