SLEEP IS FOR THE WEAK PART 8 -- Pack the bags under your eyes and join us!

[RoRoMommy]

Well...I had to think of something! DH's suggestion "Eyes wide shut--the art of sleepwalking"

Not bored at all CM - just glad to be lending a virtual ear (heck, it's not like I never whinge on MN!), so rant away if it helps

Sorry you're having such a rough time. It's cruel when you feel like things are on the up then they go backwards again. I hope you get some rest and he feels better soon

right - was supposed to be going to sleep but thought i'd try and catch up on this mammoth thread!

beal - congratulations what will the age gap be? did scan go ok? bet you're glad you didn't sell the double pram now eh!?...also (not that it's a consolation) but my dh also hates the newborn stage (part of the reason why we had 2 so close together)...i've taken to sleeping with LO in the spare room as I just cannot bear another night of him moaning that ds2 was making noise (uh, no shit, he's a baby - that's what he does!!)...and holy moly, waling at 6 1/2 mths!

roro (only just realised you had a different name) Nothing to add that others haven't except that we're here for you

teeth probs here too...though, thankfully only seem to bother him around 10pm

right, really am off to sleep now...my new years resolution is to keep more updated with you guys!

peaceful sleeping everyone

skirmish - i still wont use the double as i'm a babywearer through and through. i'll have a 18month gap this time, its 15months between ds1 and 2, so should be all fun.

last night was horrendous. i went to bed at 8:30 to compensate for the night before, ds2 up at 11, 1, 3, 4, up for day at 5:30pm grrrr

happy new year lovely ladies.... sorry its so belated

havent had time to catch up, but think i caught ambers got a birthday boy, so happy birthday!!

will try to get back on when dd asleep. shes teething, so a bit mardy

Oh dear Beal . Hope things improve soon.

CM: we're also having probs getting DS to eat enough during the day. Teeth do not help, plus he's picky at the best of times. He just makes up for it at night (sigh).

Right, one of my resolutions for 2008 is to post regularly on the blog, so remember ot check it occasionally and add your own thoughts

DS not too bas last night, failed to get him to sleep at about 7, finally went to bed with us at about 10 but I only remember one waking between then and 5am. Left him sleeping while I hauled myself to work: need to get used to the early wakings again!

Hello all, crapola night because we've both got colds and poor DD can't breath. Wouldn't be so bad if she didn't insist on sucking that blinking dummy which means she can't breath or sleep. I'm tempted to chuck them away, I've never liked them but they do give me some sanity when she's really grumpy. Ahhh

Anyway, glad to see you all back.

Skirmish, I was thinking about number 2 for the same reason. Not sure I'm a 'baby' person either really. Think I'm too needy myself . Wish I was more relaxed and earth mothery.

Ho Hum, anyway must dash

Ginger for colds. TBH I am really glad we managed to ditch the dummy as I never liked it but I couldn't really give you a rational reason why! But I guess you aren't too far away from being able to bribe her to drop it?

How is DH by the way? When is his hospital appt?

Tibsy nice to see you, is DD still sleeping well?

EP hope your boiler is fixed! Ours is on the blink too.

Hi everyone else, hope the babies are all sleeping well tonight

Oh I'm so not looking forward to teething - skirmish, EP, tibsy, CM you have my sympathies! Sorry to hear you're still being disturbed a lot beal, I hope things settle down. You need your rest young lady! And I hope health improves in the ginger household too, I think you've had more than your fair share of bugs already.

DS has been a delight recently but his sleep is still pants. Last night he slept for 2 hours and let me watch "Stranger Than Fiction" - what a great film by the way! - then woke when we went to bed and spent the rest of the night waking every 45 minutes to shriek and strain - either wind or weirdy refluxy type goings on because he has puked gallons the last couple of nights and he also had some huge farts this morning. I am dairy-free ATM and I had hoped it was helping the wind

Anyway, I must go and wash everything because there's a pervasive odour of vomit in my bedroom and it's not pleasant [eeeew emoticon]. Happy napping

hi all
beal i hope you had a better night last night.
meggy how is the sleeping going?
EP hope you managed to get the boiler fixed
ginger hope you all feel better soon
skirmish - you sound so proud of your boys
i had a lovely cuddle with a little tiny baby this a.m. i really enjoyed it!!
csb glad you enjoyed your film lovely, but for the vomittastic lo
hi to roro, tam, charlie, amber and all you other lovelies

yes, meggy, sleep still going well thanks, although last night she woke briefly at 3.30am, then 5.30am and finally 6.45 for the day. but on the whole, its generally pretty good. keep your chins up ladies, you will get there!!

Boiler fixed by lovely plumbers who didn't suck their teeth at us and tell us to get a new one . Good thing too cos DS NOT happy atm, temp last night, vomiting, teething, the works. Am guiltily enjoying day at work while DH struggles with him at home (am instructed to bring home more Nurofen). Ginger: I thought we'd got over the colds and bugs and illness season but apparently not.

We've had a new question on the blog about non-sleeping toddlers: if anyone has any thoughts please add your comments!

Ooh EP please can you email me your plumber's details? I need one to fix ours...

I keep getting 0 threads when I go to 'Threads I am on' which reminds me I haven't posted for a while .

DS2 and I are reaching a truce. I accept him for who and how he is and he is just the adorable baby that he is.

Sometimes when I am really low I forget how wonderful he is and that he is not doing this deliberately. I was thinking yesterday that I must stop seeing everything as a problem and look at how great he is. He has the most beautiful smile. He is really cheeky. He loves me despite my faults.

This stage of life will pass quickly. My mum keeps telling me not to wish his life away. I am not. I am wishing this horrible time away so I can bond properly and be the best mummy I can. When I am sad I am not the person I know I am inside. Does that make sense?

Beal I am thinking of you. I hope you are getting some rest. The 3rd pg is really tiring.

Ginger: How did your DHs appointment with the neurologist go?

Tibsy: Hello. You are such a wonderful lady thanks for all your continuing support.

CSB: I am glad you got to watch your film. It makes a difference doesn't it when you can have some time which is for you.

RoRo: Sounds like things are tough for you at the moment. I hope you and your DH reach a place where you can both be happy.

Amber: How have you settled back into the rain and the dark?

EP: Teeth. Aaaargh! You have my full sympathies. I never had a prblem with the first 2 Dcs. But DS2 has been non stop teething for weeks.Plus it has given him weapons to use against me in the middle of the night. Ow!

Skirmish: I think I ordered your baby. maybe they got mixed up in the post . Seriously, I am really glad things are going well for you. I told my HV today that DS2 obviously hasn't read GF maybe yours did?

Wow I haven't written so much for ages. I am off to have a choccie biscuit to recover.

Disn't mean to forget you meg. Hello .

CM: I know what you mean on enjoying the good times with DS. Have been reading Toddler Taming (a v good book btw) and he says that the worst behaved toddlers are angels 95% of the time

Am feeling strangely guilty writing this, but we're trying CC tonight . I was tryingt o get DS to sleep earlier (in our bed) and he was yelling and trying to escape despite the fact that he was too tired to stand up and he needs to be up early tomorrow as he's at the CMs. DH and I have been discussing how to give iup the night feeds and get him to sleep in his cot (it's getting really uncomfortable in bed with three of us, especially as DS has tken to sleeping horizontally). So I gritted my teeth, put him in his cot and left him for 2 minutes, then 4 etc. etc. It only took 30 minutes of angry, rather than upset, and intermittent crying for him to get to sleep (which he did sitting up, very cute) but we have yet to see what the night brings... We're going to try it for 3 nights and see how we get on. I always said never say never with CC and frankly I can't see much different with trying to get him to lie down in our bed with him yelling and this, so...

That said, I wouldn;t have tried it with DS much before now, as I just didn't think he was ready. And I don't regret the year or so of co-sleeping we've done until now. And I'm not assuming he won't make his way back into our bed at some point! I just need more sleep, and so does DH (and so at the moment does DS). So we shall see what happens. I don't think I'll be getting much sleep tonight in any case as I will be listening in fear for the slightest peep.

Meg: we used these people

snheating.com/default.aspx

EP: hope tonight goes well for you . It is very tough but hopefully will make a big difference to you soon. DS did the outraged crying too. I have to say that for us it really was worth it for the transformation on his sleep. I hope it is for you too

Also I would recommend having an easy-to-read book by the bed, that you can distract yourself with between visits if he wakes later in the night -- 10 mins can seem a long time at 3am if you're just staring at the clock! If he has conked out within 30 mins on night 1 then I confidently predict that by the weekend you'll all be getting a full night's sleep.

Hi everyone else . I am mostly just lurking these days as seems a little smug to keep posting about DS's new-found sleeping abilities. But I'm sending sleepy vibes to all the babies...

How was the rest of the night, EP?

morning all
how did it go last night EP? hope you all managed to get some rest without too much argy bargy [hopeful emoticon]

charlie i think youre doing a great job and yay for yours and ds2's truce

meg, glad ds is sleeping. bet you feel like a new woman

and hi to all you other siftwers

dd had a restless night last night and kept crying out in some, frankly, quite strange positions.... may have been teeth

Well, I am astonished! Our night went like this:

8pm put down in cot, sleepy but awake (and yelling)

Went back in after 2 mins, then 4, then 6 etc.. DS asleep in about 35 mins.

Checked periodically - yes, he was still breathing. Tiptoed in at 10:45 before getting ready for bed and lowered a blanket over him - MISTAKE. Woke up, yelled. Quick exit. Left 5 mins. Picked up and cuddled, yelling stops immediately. Put back down. Yells. Left. Asleep in 5 mins.

11pm: I tiptoe into bed.

12pm: DH tiptoes into bed.

3am: DS wakes, yells a few times, DH and I play dead. He stops and we can hear him thumping about in his cot (what IS he doing in there? Has he climbed out? Is he hooking the books off the shelf? Is he digging?). After a few mins, we hear a big yawn and snores.

6:30am: I wake up, DS dead to the world.

7am: DS wakes up, has a feed and a cuddle, all bright and cheerful.

I am prepared for it getting much worse the next few nights, but I was surprised at how quickly he caught on - looks like we might have chosen the right time. I really don't think we could have done this any earlier: I didn't want to before a year, then DS was ill and/or teething for months, so this has been our first window.

The downside is that I didn't really sleep until after 3 as I was waiting for every snuffle and snore to turn into a yell. And I kept worrying that he'd stoped breathing . Hopefully if the improvement continues I'll get my sleep problems sorted out as well...

Well done you and DS!

Well done EP. Glad it wasn't too painful.

DD slept through last night too but because she thrashed about a bit it meant I was waking still. She still only slept until 5.30. It seems that if she sleeps undisturbed then she wakes really early. The only time we get up later than 5.30 is if she's been awake in the night. Bahh.

I periodically think of the CC approach but not sure how it would work for us (or if I could take it) Thing is, I love cuddling DD to get her to sleep. It's generally a really peaceful time and I love watching her drift off and feel really close to her. Especially if I've just got in from work and 15 minutes later I'm putting her to bed. I know that I'm doing it for my sake and she would learn to sleep on her own with cc. I don't know I just wish there was a half way house. Do you think it would be confussing to cuddle her to sleep and then just comfort her in the night when she wakes rather than cosleeping? I've been waiting for DH to get better before I tried that but he's not so I have to face the fact that he might not and therefore my approach may have to change because I don't have the energy to do it all on my own. I'm thinking out loud a bit but I did say to DH this morning that I might try sleeping in our bed tonight and just attending to her in the night and sneaking back rather than getting in beside her when I go to bed.

Anyway, sorry this is so self indulgent. Hi to everyone and thanks for all those enquiries about DH. He has an appointment at the end of the month. I'll keep you posted.

Hello everyone. I've been MIA for a few days, but I thought I'd check in to say that DH and I have a therapy session tonight that I am very hopeful about, and DS slept like a dream last night. I think I woke two, three times, just for feeds. I was back to sleep very quickly. DH is still on the couch, but he was so sweet the other day to say that he doesn't resent it at all and he understands how I want this closeness with DS because I am away from him all day, and he's quite happy to sleep on the couch in the lounge until DS starts to settle down a bit in the night.

It made me think of the old days and love him sooo much. Not that I don't anyway, but it was like a surge iyswim.

Ginger, I am really thinking of you and DH and hoping for the best. I didn't realize things were so serious, it must have been my slacker approach to skimming posts.... Hugs to you, love.

Tibs, good luck with the teething. Your DD is such a fine little sleeper.

CM, your post was magical and uplifting and I think you're doing / thinking all of the right things. Good for you. I can't even imagine three kids, and you're still my hero so chin up sweetie!

Beal, I hope you're getting some rest these days.

Amber, belated happy birthday to your LO! I can't believe mine is going to celebrate his in just two short months. How does it go by so fast?

CSB, I've seen you around on a few other boards and you're such a great voice. I really appreciate you. I hope things are getting better with your little DS!

Meg, how is your little lovely? Is he back to his solid nights?

EP, good for you. I wish you continued success!

Skirmish, I hope you're settling in with your little DS and loving your time together. I was looking at pictures of my DS when he was small, and I can't even believe it's the same baby.

Some of you might have seen my co-sleeping post. I thing of putting him in his own cot from time to time, usually when teething gets really bad, which it is now. Last night was an exception to the rule that feels like it's been lasting forever, but I know it's only been a week or two. Funny how a week or two when you're sleep deprived can feel like an eternity!

Miss you, kisses

Ginger: I don;t see why you can;t cuddle her to sleep and then comfort her when she wakes up. Maybe try it for a night or two and see what happens? I'm not doing the 'strict' CC as I'm picking DS up and cuddling him when I go in until he's quiet (apart from the first time because he was arching and wanting to be put down so I did). I'm happy to let him know that when he is upset and I am there he'll get a cuddle, though he still needs to sleep in his cot and not feed at night. I really don't think following one approach slavishly works for most babies. I think I'm right in that Meg hasn't used CC for daytime naps, only at night? I wouldn't use it during the day either, as DS is actually napping pretty well atm. And if he was happy to settle with a cuddle at night and sleep with us, I'd be doing that. After last night, I think one of the problems was that he was getting too hot and uncomfortable sancdwiched between us and often under the duvet. He was in a vestr and pjs last night but no covers and he slept much more deeply (and he wasn't cold when I picked him up).

If you're interested, I used the technique described in Toddler Taming as it sounded pretty sensible, was recommended for babies between a year and 18 months and he claimed a 93% success rate within a week .

oh and did you get your referral to the GP in the end? Sorry to hear things are still tough . Do email me for a rant if you want . Also, if you fancy meeting up for coffee one weekend I'm occasionally in Chelmsford as I have a friend who lives there and I like the shopping!