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Sleep

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Original poster

Gina Ford: happily awake during nap time (day)

90 replies

Mettecation · 02/04/2021 15:54

Hello
I have a 4 weeks old baby girl. My husband and I have been using the Gina Ford CLB routine since she was about 2 weeks old.
We are already getting plenty of sleep and most aspects of the routine are a great fit for her.
However, we have experienced a few days now (only during the day time, night works without any issues at all), that when she is supposed to be awake she is sleepy and when she is supposed to be napping she is happy and awake in her cot. No crying or drama, but it just seems wrong to keep waking up the baby and then afterwards to see her awake and smiling in her cot for 2.5 hours without any long stretches of good sleep.
Have you experienced anything similar - and how did you deal with it?
And do you think it is an issue for her to be left by herself in her cot, fully awake, during nap time - and although she has been resting for all that time, should it be "counted" as nap time?

Thanks!
Mette

OP posts:

Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

jessstan2 · 03/04/2021 11:51

@chalktheblockwithglitterchalk

Oh no Gina Ford and her routines. I thought she had gone out of fashion years ago. I know mums who have almost had a breakdown thanks to her 'helpful' advice.

That doesn't surprise me one bit.

Mistressinthetulips · 03/04/2021 11:57

It's not popular on MN though & for some reason following a routine is seen as wrong.
I don't think it's following a routine that is seen as wrong, but following one that has been laid down by someone who has never met you or your baby. Most babies fall into their own routine soon enough.

converseandjeans · 03/04/2021 12:01

Oh no Gina Ford and her routines. I thought she had gone out of fashion years ago. I know mums who have almost had a breakdown thanks to her 'helpful' advice.

There's plenty on here who are close to a breakdown through lack of sleep though. Sleep deprivation is used as a torture method. People on here with 2 year olds who won't settle and still co-sleeping. Mums exhausted from broken sleep & an unsupportive partner.

I guess we're all different though. For me a decent night sleep was important & I was back at work at 4months anyway so didn't have a full year off. I wouldn't criticise anyone who just went with the flow - we're all different personalities and have different situations we need to cope with.

I think we all just muddle through the best we can don't we? I don't know of anyone with older children who is interested in how a child was fed as a baby & whether they had a routine 🤷🏻‍♀️

Breastfeeding and sleeping seem very divisive on here. I've had many snippy comments on here if I have suggested to someone struggling to try a routine. I think OP wants advice on how best to get the routine sorted rather than negative comments about what a silly idea it is.

daffodilsandprimroses · 03/04/2021 12:04

I absolutely agree converse and I’m not anti implementing some sleep training for the child’s own sake.

The problem is that GF tells you when your baby should be sleeping but if baby won’t sleep, what do you do? And then you feel like a failure!

ThatOtherPoster · 03/04/2021 12:19

Did nobody notice that the OP has a happy baby? It’s not sleeping at the prescribed GF times during the day, but it’s not distressed or upset.

If I hadn’t had the GF routine, my life would’ve been awful when my babies were small. I’m not organised and wasn’t at all experienced with babies and I had PND so it would’ve been absolute chaos. I’d have felt stressed and guilty and overwhelmed. GF was a lifeline. It gave me a structure and a roadmap into a completely new world.

I wish GF would write a book on teenagers now. 😆

birdglasspen · 03/04/2021 19:54

Honesty go and find the FB group, you'll get help tweaking your routine or hearing when people actually started it with their babies, not whether you should do a routine or not!

isuckathousework · 03/04/2021 20:04

Hi OP, you are obviously a first time mum. And lovely you are taking good care for your baby

However please BIN Gina Ford. She says to make babies cry till they sleep. Absolutely damaging to the psychological health of the baby.

Listen to your motherly instinct, if you feel something you are doing is wrong, stop! Even if Gina Ford says so otherwise.

Especially at 4 weeks the baby is far too young to care about routines! It is such a huge disservice by not letting her nap when she wants to.

Just think how would you feel if you wanted to nap and someone kept you awake for no good reason? And made you lie down when you are in a mood to play and bond with your primary caregiver!

foodtoorder · 03/04/2021 20:13

@converseandjeans you are so right! Almost daily there is someone posting about lack of sleep etc.

Like the other poster the contented baby routine gave me structure when I needed it most. Did I make eye contact etc when night feeding etc ? Of course I did! It didn't affect the routine we had. My baby slept well, ate well (admittedly bottle fed) and are now contented children who wake and sleep with good routine.
I can't see how a mother with any sense can't use this for its routine and ideas on even the basics to care for a baby. It doesn't have to drive you mad just because your own baby isn't quite doing what is suggested. The sleepless nights alone would make you feel like your not a failure.
So weird that there is so much distain for having a routine.

Gembie · 03/04/2021 22:30

Imho the GF routine thing is a red herring. What worked for me was just getting DS to sleep more - the Huckeberry app was good (calculates when he probs needs to nap) as was picking up on cues that he was getting tired. Overtired babies can be a nightmare to settle.

But it’s crazy to suggest that you can get a baby into a routine at that young an age - it’s the fourth trimester! My DS found his own natural rhythm related to what I presume is circadian rhythms

milkjetmum · 03/04/2021 22:44

I did gf for dd1 and regret it. Can't believe I spent time trying to keep a newborn awake because it wasn't nap time yet or waking them up! Dd2 was all baby led including joy of evening cluster feeds.

Hard to compare as they were both very different personality babies from the day they were born anyway (and different girls now) dd1 colicky and high maintenance, Dd2 sooo relaxed. Both still bad sleepers lol.

keepingmindful · 03/04/2021 22:54

My ‘baby’ is now nearly 13 and I still bitterly regret using GF on him when he was a baby. Caused all sorts of problems, wtf was I thinking being brainwashed into controlled crying. My youngest are much more content as we were much more relaxed and they (twins) didn’t have to worry about us leaving them to cry x

keepingmindful · 03/04/2021 22:56

I would agree on the long lasting effects, DS is still scared of dark now and anxious and it may be his personality but us leaving in alone as a weeny baby to ‘cry it out’ when he just needed a cuddle cannot have helped x

ThatOtherPoster · 03/04/2021 23:35

However please BIN Gina Ford. She says to make babies cry till they sleep.

Please can you post the part of the book that says this? I really don’t remember reading this in the book at all.

ThatOtherPoster · 03/04/2021 23:38

GF babies rarely cry. They really are “contented”. I don’t know where all this controlled crying stuff is coming from - the routine is about ensuring babies get enough food and activity during the day so they don’t have to wake up for food or fun at night. And blackout curtains to associate dark/night with sleep.

ThatOtherPoster · 03/04/2021 23:39

It was a while ago I read it. My DC are teenagers now. I’d be happy to be proven wrong with a quote from the actual book, but I don’t remember CC being part of it.

converseandjeans · 04/04/2021 00:09

thatotherposter mine rarely cried and were definitely not left to 'cry it out'. It's a long time since I read it but I don't recall anywhere it saying to leave a baby to cry. It was more about making sure that they had the right amount of sleep so they weren't over tired & the right amount of food so they weren't hungry.

If they did ever cry it was easy to work out what the problem was.

I don't know where the idea comes from that GF promotes controlled crying?

Mumoftwoinprimary · 04/04/2021 00:32

My health visitor told me that practically every mother she had ever had with PND had a copy of “that bloody book” (her words not mine) in their bookshelf.

jessstan2 · 04/04/2021 01:06

converseandjeans, I don't know that she uses the words 'controlled crying' as such but Ford says that a baby should be left to cry for an hour each day so they get used to self settling.

What mother is going to leave their baby crying for an hour? They might 'self settle' after an hour of crying, it's called falling sleep from exhaustion.

She may have had many years experience in looking after babies but I get the impression she doesn't actually like them.

boxingdayagain · 04/04/2021 08:31

I had a friend who did GF. It was so rigid. We would be out having a walk or a coffee and she would just take off home in the middle of whatever we were doing because her baby had to have his daytime nap at home in a darkened room. Meanwhile my child was quite adaptable and just slept in the pram oblivious to the noise around.
She also stressed out so unnecessarily when the clocks went back or forward because that under the entire day.
It was quite concerning to watch.
In saying that the 7,11,3,7,11,3 feeding times tended to work quite well, as my child naturally fell into that rhythm.
I don't remember reading specifically about controlled crying in her books, but there definitely was an element of learning to self- settle/no eye contact etc that didn't sit very comfortably with me

converseandjeans · 04/04/2021 08:51

jessstan2 I can honestly say that mine were never left to cry. I no longer have a copy of the book but can't recall anything about leaving a baby for an hour? Have you read the book or are you just going on hearsay?

I would never leave a baby crying alone like that. Mine weren't left to cry it out. They rarely cried as small babies.

On the rare occasion they did wake up in the night it would be kept quiet and dark and no chatting to them. But that's not the same thing as leaving them to cry.

wonderstuff · 04/04/2021 08:56

I found the problem with the GF book was that the baby can't read it.

Throw it away.

daffodilsandprimroses · 04/04/2021 08:57

Mine would never go four hours between feeds (unless overnight) - two and a half hours is a long time here.

If you think about it, four hours without a drink is a long time even for an adult.

daffodilsandprimroses · 04/04/2021 08:58

@wonderstuff

I found the problem with the GF book was that the baby can't read it.

Throw it away.

In fairness though that applies to all the books, including the ones which advocate a more gentle approach.

It’s about finding what works for you and your baby. If Gina Ford does I think that’s good but it just honestly won’t work for all babies - mine would go berserk if I made him wait four hours between feeds!

megletthesecond · 04/04/2021 09:01

I used GF from.1 month. I was too tired and in pain to figure out what the hell I was doing.

Another one whose earth mother abilities were clearly shite .

Chickenlickeninthepot · 04/04/2021 09:05

Nothing wrong with a routine but you need to meet your babies needs. Newborns need sleep, you can't keep waking them up and equally they need interaction to develop so you can't keep leaving them alone in the cot awake. You should also be following safe sleep guidelines so baby should be with you during sleep times, not left alone (within reason obviously) - it's not clear from your OP what you are doing but I think GF recommends a cot in a dark room for naps.

I've got two and they've both naturally developed their own (completely different) schedules by about 12 weeks.

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