Gina Ford: happily awake during nap time (day)

[Mettecation]

Hello
I have a 4 weeks old baby girl. My husband and I have been using the Gina Ford CLB routine since she was about 2 weeks old.
We are already getting plenty of sleep and most aspects of the routine are a great fit for her.
However, we have experienced a few days now (only during the day time, night works without any issues at all), that when she is supposed to be awake she is sleepy and when she is supposed to be napping she is happy and awake in her cot. No crying or drama, but it just seems wrong to keep waking up the baby and then afterwards to see her awake and smiling in her cot for 2.5 hours without any long stretches of good sleep.
Have you experienced anything similar - and how did you deal with it?
And do you think it is an issue for her to be left by herself in her cot, fully awake, during nap time - and although she has been resting for all that time, should it be "counted" as nap time?

Thanks!
Mette

[converseandjeans]

foodtoorder

Agreed - so many people moaning about it and claiming that you should leave your baby crying for up to an hour - yet haven't read the book. There are so many threads on here with people struggling to get their baby to sleep and they are exhausted. Yet just get told 'that's how babies are'. It honestly doesn't need to be like that.

An over tired parent is actually more of a danger to a baby than attempting a routine.

[foodtoorder]

Lots of people who clearly haven't read the book.
It isn't strict, explains perfectly well it's adjustable.
No controlled crying whatsoever.

Poor OP, looking for advice from people who have used it and gets thread taken over by opinionated posters who haven't the book.

[ThatOtherPoster]

Gina Ford goes in for the four hourly feeding business too, starting at 7am with last feed at 6.15pm. Blimey.

You haven’t read the book.

[daffodilsandprimroses]

I would love anyone try to get my ds go more than two and a half hours between feeds

[jessstan2]

Gina Ford goes in for the four hourly feeding business too, starting at 7am with last feed at 6.15pm. Blimey.

[itsgettingwierd]

I don't know GF but I do know that babies don't read these books in the womb.

I'm not a caller of "bin the book" but more "read the books and find advice that suits who you're baby is".

I did actually have to sack if baby books quite early but as my ds has a rare neurological disorder (and autism) he just didn't fit into most peoples ideas.

He's 16 now and I'm still making it up as I go along

[Mumoftwoinprimary]

@converseandjeans

mumoftwo

But that's an article about the book. It's not the actual book. It's honestly not how the routine works. Because of the routine they're tired at 7pm so don't cry but go to sleep.

I think you have come up with a link to a Mumsnet thread claiming that this is what GF suggests. But it's untrue.

There's lots of people claiming things about a book they haven't actually read.

But there are loads of articles - many of which (including the one’s I quoted) that are stating that GF is a good routine if you want a strict routine (so not anti GF at all) but they do state that letting the baby cry in the early days is part of the routine.

I have read the book. Many times. I am very very very routine driven so pre dd’s birth it seemed the right way to go for me. Admittedly it was many years ago now (and I can’t find it now to check one way or the other) but my memory is that leaving the baby to cry was part of it. (That - and fact that dd was rubbish and kept pooing at the wrong moment! - was what put me off it.)

[daffodilsandprimroses]

I did read it.

I don’t think she recommends an hour but I do think she recommends leaving babies to cry. Which goes to show it won’t work with some babies - my ds just winds himself up into a huge state if ignored (I haven’t done it on purpose but have had to when driving for instance.)

[converseandjeans]

mumoftwo

But that's an article about the book. It's not the actual book. It's honestly not how the routine works. Because of the routine they're tired at 7pm so don't cry but go to sleep.

I think you have come up with a link to a Mumsnet thread claiming that this is what GF suggests. But it's untrue.

There's lots of people claiming things about a book they haven't actually read.

[jessstan2]

I read 'up to an hour a day'.

Oh who cares, honestly; I doubt anybody sticks rigidly to books about parenting babies.

I'm old enough to remember Dr Spock and his four hourly feeding, fifteen minutes on each side. Some hopes with a new born!

These are guidelines only with some useful suggestions.

[Mumoftwoinprimary]

[quote ThatOtherPoster]@jessstan2

Ford says that a baby should be left to cry for an hour each day so they get used to self settling.

No she doesn’t. I think it’s probably libellous saying that she does, to be honest. That is not in the book that I read!

I haven't read the book ... I have however read many extracts from the book over the past few days.

I’d love to see where you got that one-hour controlled crying idea from. Can you share the link?[/quote]
I’ve just done a speedy google of “Gina Ford Controlled Crying” and found loads of links including this:-

“Here’s the tough part. You can’t always respond to your baby when she cries. Ford’s method recommends that you leave her to cry for an hour each day, something which isn’t for all parents.”

Here. www.motherandbaby.co.uk/first-year/baby/crying/routine-gina-ford

And this:-

“Ford also recommends that leaving your baby to cry is a good idea for around 1 hour a day. Doing this should train your little one to self-soothe and therefore sleep through the night around the 8-10 week period.”

Here:- babymori.com/blogs/baby-stories/baby-sleep-gina-ford-vs-baby-whisperer

[ThatOtherPoster]

@jessstan2

Ford says that a baby should be left to cry for an hour each day so they get used to self settling.

No she doesn’t. I think it’s probably libellous saying that she does, to be honest. That is not in the book that I read!

I haven't read the book ... I have however read many extracts from the book over the past few days.

I’d love to see where you got that one-hour controlled crying idea from. Can you share the link?

[converseandjeans]

foodtoorder I agree with everything you say. It is basically a routine which means all needs are met so there's no need to cry.

It's quite an old fashioned approach I guess

I personally think babies, toddlers, young children and teens all need some semblance of a routine.

I presume these babies who don't have a routine at hone end up in a routine as soon as they go to nursery as they all have to nap same time at lunch?

[foodtoorder]

@ThatOtherPoster I don't remember it either! Certainly didn't need to leave babies to cry as I knew they had been fed, dry nappies and had been active/had interaction. It's about letting babies settling themselves that doesn't mean they cry themselves to sleep. It means you don't have to go through nightly routines of sitting with and settling children who are school age like so so many posts from parents who have a nightmare every night with bed time routines.

All this nonsense of babies don't read the book etc is rubbish, babies learn behaviour so has nothing to do with them knowing the book.
Additionally the "you have to meet your babies needs"... it's literally a step by step guide to meeting a babies practical needs. It literally does not say anywhere don't cuddle, don't play etc. Such small mindedness.

[jessstan2]

I'm sure you didn't leave your baby to cry, converseandjeans, I wasn't suggesting you did; most people wouldn't stick to a book rigidly. A baby needs to be near mother and if they cry more than a few minutes, they want some comfort. Being in a separate room is not comforting.

I haven't read the book, it wasn't around thirty odd years ago as far as I know. I have however read many extracts from the book over the past few days.

There are some babies (I am thinking of one amongst my acquaintance particularly), who are quite contented; only wake up to be changed and fed and then go back to sleep. It doesn't always last but it happens, a cousin's child was like that in the first few months. She would have been that way with or without any book and it was lovely. Their second child was different.

Working with babies, and children, professionally is very different to having your own. I would always trust a mother's instincts first and foremost.

I stand by what I said earlier, I get the impression Ms Ford does not really like babies that much; she doesn't empathise with them. They are individuals like us.

Four hourly feeding is a joke for new babies too. Dr Spock advised that many more years ago, now demand feeding is the norm when they are little.

[Chickenlickeninthepot]

Nothing wrong with a routine but you need to meet your babies needs. Newborns need sleep, you can't keep waking them up and equally they need interaction to develop so you can't keep leaving them alone in the cot awake. You should also be following safe sleep guidelines so baby should be with you during sleep times, not left alone (within reason obviously) - it's not clear from your OP what you are doing but I think GF recommends a cot in a dark room for naps.

I've got two and they've both naturally developed their own (completely different) schedules by about 12 weeks.

[megletthesecond]

I used GF from.1 month. I was too tired and in pain to figure out what the hell I was doing.

Another one whose earth mother abilities were clearly shite .

[daffodilsandprimroses]

@wonderstuff

I found the problem with the GF book was that the baby can't read it.

Throw it away.

In fairness though that applies to all the books, including the ones which advocate a more gentle approach.

It’s about finding what works for you and your baby. If Gina Ford does I think that’s good but it just honestly won’t work for all babies - mine would go berserk if I made him wait four hours between feeds!

[daffodilsandprimroses]

Mine would never go four hours between feeds (unless overnight) - two and a half hours is a long time here.

If you think about it, four hours without a drink is a long time even for an adult.

[wonderstuff]

I found the problem with the GF book was that the baby can't read it.

Throw it away.

[converseandjeans]

jessstan2 I can honestly say that mine were never left to cry. I no longer have a copy of the book but can't recall anything about leaving a baby for an hour? Have you read the book or are you just going on hearsay?

I would never leave a baby crying alone like that. Mine weren't left to cry it out. They rarely cried as small babies.

On the rare occasion they did wake up in the night it would be kept quiet and dark and no chatting to them. But that's not the same thing as leaving them to cry.

[boxingdayagain]

I had a friend who did GF. It was so rigid. We would be out having a walk or a coffee and she would just take off home in the middle of whatever we were doing because her baby had to have his daytime nap at home in a darkened room. Meanwhile my child was quite adaptable and just slept in the pram oblivious to the noise around.
She also stressed out so unnecessarily when the clocks went back or forward because that under the entire day.
It was quite concerning to watch.
In saying that the 7,11,3,7,11,3 feeding times tended to work quite well, as my child naturally fell into that rhythm.
I don't remember reading specifically about controlled crying in her books, but there definitely was an element of learning to self- settle/no eye contact etc that didn't sit very comfortably with me

[jessstan2]

converseandjeans, I don't know that she uses the words 'controlled crying' as such but Ford says that a baby should be left to cry for an hour each day so they get used to self settling.

What mother is going to leave their baby crying for an hour? They might 'self settle' after an hour of crying, it's called falling sleep from exhaustion.

She may have had many years experience in looking after babies but I get the impression she doesn't actually like them.

[Mumoftwoinprimary]

My health visitor told me that practically every mother she had ever had with PND had a copy of “that bloody book” (her words not mine) in their bookshelf.

[converseandjeans]

thatotherposter mine rarely cried and were definitely not left to 'cry it out'. It's a long time since I read it but I don't recall anywhere it saying to leave a baby to cry. It was more about making sure that they had the right amount of sleep so they weren't over tired & the right amount of food so they weren't hungry.

If they did ever cry it was easy to work out what the problem was.

I don't know where the idea comes from that GF promotes controlled crying?