Tried everything?

[FTEngineerM]

Any final tips from the MN oracle before we loose our minds?

DC hasn’t slept for more than one sleep cycle, whether that be the daytime 45 minute or night time 1.5-2 hours, since 4m old and we’re broken. Mostly me now because I’m 8 weeks pregnant and the hormones are making me want to sleeeeeeep.

We paid a sleep consultant and had 1 month of follow up help and they couldn’t help, none of their tricks like white noise/stopping feeding to sleep work.

We even started trying controlled crying and it was just awful, DC was in hysterics purple crying, shaking and coughing before we’d even left the room which just escalates for the minute you’re gone.

So we’ve tried:

Stopping feeding to sleep.
Stopping rocking to sleep.
Stopping co sleeping.
Controlled crying.
Stopped breastfeeds overnight.
Doesn’t like white noise.
Regular bed time and wake up time.
2 or 3 naps in day depending on how long they are.

Since sleep consultant his naps are more predictable and his bedtime to far less stressful and regular BUT nobody seems to be able to help him stay asleep or self settle back into the next cycle. We can help him by preemptively patting his bum from 40 minutes into a nap until 50 minutes then he’s into the next cycle and we stop.

What else can we do?

Sorry he’s 8m old in a weeks time.

Also: last feed before bed is a bottle of expressed.

Does he have a dummy?

@Poppet12345 yep has it to go to sleep but he spits it out as soon as he’s in any kind of deep sleep.

The sleep pattern you've described at the top is exactly what our DS was like until nearly 2 years old and he didn't start reliably sleeping through until 3 🤦🏻‍♀️ (He's 3.5 now). Not what you want to hear possibly but we ended up accepting that all kids are different and we had a terrible sleeper! I'm pregnant with #2 now and part of the reason we delayed having a second child as long as we did was due to DS' poor sleep. All I'd say is at not even 8m I wouldn't be cutting out all feeds in the night as I'm guessing your child isn't fully weaned onto solid foods yet? So they could well be hungry and needing the nutrition in the night. Really sorry I can't be very helpful op, it's a killer I know! X

Thanks @mummabubs at least it ends at some point 😂🤷🏽‍♀️He’s definitely not hungry because he goes back with a cuddle/pat. He has 3 full meals and two snacks a day so all good there.

I hate to be this person, and I know you said you’ve tried sleep training and it doesn’t work, but I have worked with children and babies for many many many years, and I have only ever met 2 children who didn’t respond to sleep training. As in, the parents trained them in the right way, or the way they chose, but it simply made no difference and the child continued waking through the night.

I’d be very very surprised if you’ve done proper sleep training and it hasn’t worked. Which method did you use? Cry it out isn’t the only method available and is too hard for some parents to manage, but there are gentler methods out there that take a bit longer but are just as effective.

Lucy Wolfe had a no cry sleep solution which I’ve seen lots of children benefit from and in theory involves no crying. The blissful baby expert promotes “self settling” and “controlled crying” which of course involves a degree of crying but doesn’t suggest saying goodnight to your child and then leaving them alone until they eventually fall asleep. Do some research, pick a method that suits you and stick with it. I am 99.9% it will work you just need to be consistent and firm with it. I am waiting for the co-sleeping MN army to lynch me for this post, but I’m happy and well rested with a 2yoDS who has slept through the night since he was 4 months old and is one of the happiest, smartest and most well rounded children you will ever meet. I am 33 weeks pregnant with #2 and plan to do the exact same with this baby, because everyone in our house is happy and well rested, so although it may be a tough journey, it’s ABSOLUTELY worth it in the long run. For you and your child.

@Gwegowygwiggs don’t worry, what ever you choose someone will lynch you the controlled crying was only one night because he was so so hysterical, I’d never seen him like it before.

I tried the routine and things the sleep consultant advised for a month. Pick up put down we’d tried for 16 days leading up to that with no change in behaviour. If there were small inclinations these things would work then I’d carry on but there is literally no change which is disheartening.

Something odd happened last night, I woke up more than him! Once he woke with a whine and I had to intervene. Maybe he’s not seeing any point since there’s no milk anymore(?).

Is he getting enough milk? Milk is higher calories than food and general nhs advice is 3 meals a day from 9 months and snacks to be introduced after 12 months.

8 months is still very much a baby and what you have described is normal for some babies.

Yes he’s getting enough milk @Thatwentbadly

You didn't try controlled crying if you gave up after just one night.

However perhaps night weaning has done the trick if you say he woke up less.

Just be careful not to replace feeding to sleep with rocking/holding to sleep.

@NameChange30 I know it wasn’t even a full night either BUT there is absolutely no was I could inflict that onto anyone let alone someone I’m meant to love unconditionally. It was awful.

I have my fingers crossed but I’m not convinced yet

Controlled crying is awful but it works.
I "inflicted" it on DC1 and hated every second but actually did it out of love for him since sleep is important for his development and wellbeing and our sanity.
Each to their own though.

@NameChange30 DEFINITELY OUR SANITY

I could have written this

Same issues except my little boy didn't sleep from pretty much 7 days old, genuinely horrific. Tried so much & at about 8/9 months I just had enough & resorted to controlled crying. The first night was awful but by night 3 he was self settling within a few minutes. Unbelievable. He started to like going to bed & for naps & although for awhile he woke up super early 4.45/5am he was a good sleeper from this point. FYI those early wake ups are super common too!

I have friends who have used Responsive settling,Rowena Ward. A take on CC.

You have to do what's right for you but CC isn't the absolute devil if you're on the brink of losing your mind...and unless you have had a genuine non sleeping child others can't comment!!

BTW my 4.5 year old has been an incredible sleeper from 14 months, for awhile he had a 3 hour midday nap & would sleep 7-7 -- perfect for life with a newborn!! There is hope!

If you've tried everything, and nothing is working, then maybe this is just the way it's supposed to be?

I had a non sleeper until around 18 months.

It's hard so I do understand, but some children just don't sleep

He slept through the night 🥲he’s still sleeping actually.

I’m wide awake at this time because I haven’t had this much sleep in 8 months!!

I think the lack of milk has worked.
I don’t even know why I’m posting but YAY I feel emotional.

FTEngineerM congrats! You must feel like a new woman. Can I ask what you did differently? I'm looking at sleep training or other ideas for my 6mo as I'm up and down like a yoyo from 3am xx

Good for you!!!! X

@EL1984 I’m totally winging it, some things have made the situation better and some have made it worse.

Now we’re FF I completely removed breast when he reliably didn’t want it through the night. He’s been on his 7am wake up and 8pm bed time for a month consistently. He hasn’t had any pesky allergens (his are dairy and soya).

He did sleep in the middle of the bed last night but me and DP didn’t care since he slept through.

I don’t think it’ll be the same tonight he’s already woken once.

Good luck 😀🤷🏽‍♀️ Maybe it was a fluke!

Sounds like you might have it cracked now OP!

We really had great success with "wake to sleep". DS was only doing short bursts and would wake every 45 minutes like clockwork. I set an alarm to go in at 40 minutes and would gently shift him a little bit, move his position or rearrange his blanket. Enough to make him stir but not be fully awake. And he then settled himself back into another sleep cycle without waking up. I can't remember where I read it but it worked an absolute TREAT. It was for naps and not nighttime sleep but I imagine principle is the same?

Hopefully you don't need to be setting alarms though if he's doing a bit better. Fingers crossed for you

Just to say that controlled crying type things never worked with Dd BUT cry it out worked immediately. For some reason DD has never responded well when we come in repeatedly, she doesn’t get upset, she just gets excited and it seems to almost reset her and make her awake LONGER. CIO on the other hand, used at 6 months for nap training and first day we have 10 minutes of crying sandwiched on either side by 10 minutes of chatting, second day 10 minutes of morning, 3rd day and after she proceeded to nap for 1.5 hours every single day for the next 15 months until she dropped a nap.

My point is that ever kid is different, cry it out might seem worse, but if we’d used controlled crying or a “gentle” method for our kiddo, it almost certainly would have resulted in many many more tears because that just doesn’t seem to be what she needs! Every kid is different!

Definitely @Happyhappyday and every comes from it with their loved reality so advice will be different.

Just keeping going until something works is probably going to be my advice if any friends ask now.

Last night he woke an hour after going down but then was ok all night. He woke me up by cuddling me at 3:40 but that’s cute so I’ll let him off

Lived = loved