SLEEP IS FOR THE WEEK part 7 -- prop your eyes open with matchsticks here

[MegBusset]

Zzzzzzzzzzzzz...

Thanks Tibsy, its reassuring to know I don't have to slink off never to be seen again.

hi all ,my baby is 9 weeks old and recently there was a chink o flight from the doom of nightly wakings as he was sleeping from 7 am - 2 or 3am but then he would bw awake feeding constantly every hour to make up for lost time..last night though little horror woke at 11.30 the every hour until 3.45 when he wouldnt sleep at all and was wide awake fidgeting and trying to catch my eye to smile at me!!!! hes now asleep finally after fighting it from a a quick 5 min nap at 6.30!!im shattered and very tempermental this morning , and my other two decided to be very bouncy and noisy this morning at 6.00!! woke baby so were sent out into the garden at 7.30 to go and bounce on the trampoline for 10 mins to burn off steam..hope the neighbours enjoyed it[grin

CM agree with tibs.
CC/CIO are not for me and i am very opposed to it being used on young babies but i know that it gets results and every parent is only trying to do their best. you haven't made any faux pas at all. (the tone of this is meant to sound reassuring not preachy as i think it might be)

good (ish) night here
ds asleep by 7.15
woke at 3. (he had had a drink of water about 1 and then left the bottle lying beside him so it had leaked out and soaked his pj's and the pillow)
quick turn of pillow and off with pj's
woke at 8 for day

bambi we bow down before anyone on SIFTW with 2 children or more. i don't know how you do it. i keep thinking about no.2 and then panicking at the thought of getting another non-sleeper!
are you bf?
co-sleeping?

the only way i got through the first 6 months when ds fed every 2 hours was to co-sleep. we had a cot period from 9-13 months (ish ) and now we're back to full co-sleeping and most night he's sleeping through the night (in our bed)

we move house soon and I'll be endeavouring to get him into his own bed which is why i can't bare to leave my SIFTW sisters!

charlie no slinking off for you, youre one of us now

hi tam good night, apart from leaky bottle incident. the halloween party sounds fab! x

welcome bambi i would 2nd what tam says (gawd, we're an agreeable lot this a.m arent we? ).... co sleeping is the thing that got us through too. What ages are your other 2?....have you read No Cry Sleep Solution by Elizabeth Pantley?

ginger - forgot to say, your dd sounds lovely giving x's and cuddles. dd likes stroking things and says 'ahhhhhhhhh' she does it to everything, even the man in front of us in the bank t'other day ...dp reckons shes gonna be a hippy treehugger like me

oh yeah, and i'm such a numpty, completely forgot dd's MMR jab yesterday, had to phone them up this a.m to apologise and have rebooked for next week. ds has got his then hasnt he EP?

yes im bf with a top up at night to help him sleep through..me thinks...hah thinks baby i did co sleep up til last week but he kept me awake with his rooting around trying to get a feed every ten mins! so hes actually sleeping better since being in his own crib...

Morning all,

Bambi hi and welcome, and congrats on your new baby! Big hats off to coping with three

Tam for your night, you mustn't ever leave us though!

RoRo for your early start, especially horrid in winter. And at your DH.

EP glad your nights are improving. Have you found your supply is OK with just the evening/night feeds? I think I want to keep BF DS after a year but probably only first and last thing.

Tibs for yours too. Do you live in the countryside, then?

Charlie, much like Tibs and Tam, cc isn't for me and I don't think it should be used on littlies, but I can see that it works for some families, and sleep deprivation is an awful thing to go through. Certainly wouldn't judge anyone who ended up using it 'cause nothing else worked.

Beal I see you live in Ramsgate... my parents used to live there before upping sticks for the slightly more glamorous south of France! It's lovely there though, especially the walk to Broadstairs. I have a bit of a soft spot for Margate too, as we used to go there a lot when I was a kid.

Our night was OK in the end:
Bed 6.30
Woke 8 (quick pat)
Woke 10 (Medised and fed)
Woke 2 (Medised)
Woke 8 for the day.

He is a little more like himself this morning, but still not 100%, will see how he goes over the day and give him the antibiotics if he starts getting worse again.

hi everyone, sorry am too exhausted to respond to all the posts (but i've read them all promise!!)
meg, you'll prob find your supply is fine and the LO's tend to cut down gradually as the balance between food and milk shifts. lots of women do keep feeding beyond a year and it works well. think it's especially good for calming down hyperactive toddlers (not that any of us have hyperactive babies, right )

we had an alright night. a couple of wakings, i think at 1 and 3 but could be wrong.

a friend of mine is over from Aus and a whole group is meeting up, but they have not yet formulated a plan and don't even have a meeting time or vague location. how can they expect me to plan around this?? it's completely impossible with a child to not have some degree of certainty to fit naps/food etc around. i'm guessing i'll end up not going due to an awful clash with LO's need to nap or some such.

ah, the life of a mother.

tibs, the stroking is so cute. i was trying to show ds how to stroke a cat yesterday, but it just resulted in hitting and pulling fur

Hey all, just a quickie.

Sounds like everyone had a good night. I think we had a technical sleep through but can't really remember. I got into bed alongside DD at about 11 and she woke somewhere about 5.15 Pretty certain she didn't wake before that. After a few minutes cuddling it was obvious she wasn't going back to sleep so we got up. For those with eary risers have you noticed any difference when you alter bedtime? My DD is an early riser but wakes even earlier if she goes to bed late. We try to have her in bed for 7-7.15 else it gets a bit messy and she's hard to settle, restless and wakes earlier than usual.

I think my problem with CC/CIO is that some people use it / recommend it as first resort and it bothers me that they've not explored reasons for waking. I don't have a problem with people using it once they feel they know their baby and why they're waking and it's used in a way that doesn't make a baby feel abandoned but sometimes I think people aren't prepared to suffer even a little bit with a baby. (that sounds a bit sanctamonious but it's not meant to, in fact I'd only say that on this thread as we've all been here some time) Personally before about 9 months I couldn't be sure my DD wasn't waking due to hunger. I think she wakes for comfort now which I'm happy with and don't see that as a sleep problem at all. I have considered it in the past and I do sometimes get a bit envious of people who have used it with such success but something will not allow me to do it. I also do question in my own mind if it works. It may stop them shouting out for you but does it solve the problem of why they wake? Now I realise this is a very controversial debate so I just want to reiterate that this is in no means a judgement on those that have used it as a sleep training method but I suppose I do to an extent judge those who use it just to fuel an easier lifestyle (maybe I'm just jealous). So Charlie, no you're not in any trouble here

ps. charliemama, while i'm not an advocate of leaving babies to cry (esp young ones), i haven't ruled out the possibility that we may have to go down that road at some point. have been considering it a lot lately because i have been sick so much and sometimes almost feeling a bit depressed, and i know it's all down to sleep deprivation.
it's an option, but i'm just desperately trying to avoid it and hoping there is an end in sight!! so no faux pas, i like to think we are an incredibly supportive bunch no matter what you choose

x-post well said ginger

hi girls!

ginger - excellent post (as always) and a good night from dd, but another early start

amber - your meet up sounds lovely but yep, i know what you mean about planning and stuff. a couple of friends keep asking me to go to lunch after weds baby group, but i just want to head straight home, feed dd then have a sit down whilst she sleeps. i promised i'd never be a slave to naps, but its the only headspace i get during the day and i want it all to myself
for your night lovely, but youre still feeling washed out. chin up my darling ((((hugs))))

meg - nah, not in the country, but its right on our doorstep. we're right by the river, have got a few fields to walk in nearby, but am also a 5-10 min walk from town. perfect for us atm
so glad that lo a bit better. that was a good night considering he's been really poorly. what a star!!!

Glad DS is feeling better Meg

Ginger: yay for your sleeping through (I reckon that if you can't remember a waking it didn't happen ).

Amber: friends can be really irritating, can't they? I don;t think you realise pre-kids just how much hasse it is to make arrangements around naps and food etc. Tell em to get a move on!

Bambi: sorry you had a bad night. Well done on getting some longer stretches already (9 weeks is tiny!) and hope they come back soon. Sometimes we seem to have bad nights for no reason whatsoever.

Am feeling more hopeful about our nights as DS seems to be sleeping a lot better, despite the wakings. I can now turn over or stir during the night without automatically waking him up . DH and I were watching him sleep last night when we went to bed - he looked so peaceful and angelic. Despite the hassles, I'm def not regretting co-sleeping at the moment

Tibs: being near the river sounds lovely

Tam: glad you enjoyed your party . Try not to worry too much about getting DS into his own bed - deal with it when it comes! I've certainly heard of parents with nightmare sleepers who've made the transition really easily. I suppose it's another occasion where you need to be in tune with your LO.

Speaking of being in tune, don't feel bad about CC CM! Like Amber, I haven;t ruled it out definitely. I think even the gentlest forms of sleep training recommended after a year involve some crying. And leaving an older child for a few minutes when you're certain they're OK is VERY different from leaving a young baby to cry when they may well need a feed, a change or a cuddle.

Oh and Amber, hope you're out enjoying the sunshine

Re MMR, I think I'm supposed to wait another week but next Wed is the only one I have free for ages so I'm going anyway. DS will be 13 months, but it's only 3 weeks since his last jab. Am pretty sure it's OK though - the q came up on MN a few weeks back and many places give the 2 jabs together. I suppose I'd better ring to check though

So sorry ladies, I want to respond to specifically to posts but am at work and have an issue re: nanny and LO's sleep that I want to air. Please forgive.

I was home this morning and DS started to cry. This happens sometimes when he is with the nanny, but after a second she responds and it's over. But this morning he kept crying and while I knew she was in the room with him, I couldn't imagine what she could be doing that he was still crying (and at this point, it's escalating). Now we are attachment parenting our DS as much as possible with two working parents, and nanny knows this and has been told not to let DS CIO. So I go into the room, and she's standing above him, he's on the bed wiggling around and crying, holding his hands up to be picked up. And I ask, what are you doing, and she says...

I am putting him down for a nap.

WHAT?? So I say, here, I'll take him. And I rock him, and feed him a little, and he's not showing any signs of being tired. Not even a yawn! After thirty minutes, I give him back and go to work, but not before she's made a bottle and has him back on the bed with the bottle trying to get him to sleep again (he may have been tired at this point).

I spoke to her about it and she said that he always cries a little when she puts him down for naps. I said, well, we don't want him to cry himself to sleep, and he never cries with us. She says, he's used to sleeping with you, and going to sleep nursing, and I can't do that. So I say, fine, do the best you can.

But I am not so sure she gets it. And I was upset this morning for other reasons as well, so I wasn't very diplomatic over all, but now my DH says she's called him and left a message that she wants him to come home early so that they can "chat."

What??

So, what can I do? Should I be okay that DS cries "a little" every day with the nanny to go to sleep for his nap(s), or should I try to find someone else with a more AP approach (this might cost more, take time, and generally prove impossible).

Help, please.

Oh, and Meg, I am so glad DS is doing better. Here's to his rapid recovery to 100% himself!

meg - cant say you here 'margate is lvoely' all that often! the walk to b/stairs is lush have recently started doing again now i'm babywearing constantly, with 2 its no mean feat! lol

whoever aske about slings (cant be arsed to check) what did u decide one?

Hi Bambi and welcome. congrats on new baby, i'm plottin number 3 as we speak!! not literally i hope u understand

Amber for today but for last night. i'm whisper so not to jinx but is LO doing better these days?

RoRo: that's a tricky one . I guess it's more of an issue because you know he's being left to cry IYSWIM. I kind of assume when DS is with the CM he'll grumble a little before he goes to sleep, but becasue I can't see it I'm fine with it if that makes sense. I'm not against DS being left to cry ever - sometimes we have to, e.g. when we're in the car and can't stop so I can take him out of his seat. But I would be v unhappy if our cm was implementing a rigid nap system and leaving him when he wasn't tired - she does what we do and waits till he's more or less zonked out. So may be a routine issue rather than a crying issue?

Thanks, Effie. Maybe it is, and you're right, DS is going to cry sometimes. I guess I am more resentful that she's shown general resistance to our approach ("sometimes he doesn't want to be 'in arms'," "sometimes he just cries because he's fussy", "you're going to have to put him in his own bed or he'll get spoiled", etc.), and this is making me suspicious that she isn't being as careful with him as she could be.

I understand the crying when you can't get to him, i.e., carseat, but if he wants to be picked up and cuddled, aren't we paying her to do that?

Roro - having never left my children with a Cm i cant really advise, but definately think that if it's needed then that person should be doing exactly what you do and if you;re at all unsure about leaving LO dont leave them with that person. you have to be 100% of who you're leaving with and be adamant that they look after your child how you do

p.s amber stroking does turn to slapping sometimes (dd, not me )

roro - thats a tough one. imo, and i have no experience with nannies, i wouldnt feel entirely comfortable having someone look after dd if they werent going to keep to my wishes. maybe if you have a chat about how you wish lo to be brought up, you can reach an agreement. good luck

If you're unhappy with her attitude, I'd think about changing. She needs to respect your parenting style. That said, I thin kour CM thinks we're a bunch of hippies but DS really likes her so I'm OK with that

Thanks, Tibsy, Beal and Effie. DS really seems to like her, so I am hesitant to make a change, plus my mum is moving over here to live with us, and she'll be taking over DS's care part-time (CM will stay with us for a few hours a day to give mum a break). I think we'll probably keep her, or perhaps interview new people who are more AP, but the problem there is that DS is getting close to separation anxiety age and CM has been with him since he was six weeks old...

I wish I could be with him myself sometimes. This is hard!

Anyway, thanks for your advice. I think DH is going to talk to her, and if she doesn't quit, I'll probably apologize for being less than nice this morning and explain that DS is my child and she needs to act with him while we're away how we act with him when we're around. Hopefully she'll get it.

RRM, Despite my last post which made me sound like some sort of earth mother (which i'm not) I agree completely with EP. When DD goes to nursery I imagine she does cry a bit for naps but it's not the same as being put into a rigid routine whereby she's left to cry just to fit around the carers plan of what should be happening. If it's any help, my DD has cried for me on a number of occassions at sleep time and nothing I do makes a difference. It's very hard to say not knowing the exact circumstances but leaving the room shutting the door and leaving him to cry is different to him having a few tears while she's standing next to him. If AP is very important to you though then you probably do need to address it. My feeling is though that you need to tread very carefully because good and trustworthy childcare is hard to find and dare I say you may be feeling a bit sensitive about working etc?