Sleep training an 8mo

[Goostacean]

Hello hello, (which just autocorrected to “help help”, appropriately). I sleep trained our breastfed 8mo at 5.5mo using a gentle(ish) method of returning at intervals. He now goes to sleep by himself beautifully, but has started waking in the night- last night I was awake every 90mins/2hs, which is ridiculous at this age. I’m so tired that I’ve gotten lazy and have been feeding him to resettle and now we’re on a vicious cycle. Today is our last day on holiday, but from either tomorrow or Monday night, this needs to change! Any tips?

Sure it’s not juts heat related- I was up all night with my 3 year old....hellish but all down to the stifling heat!

Unfortunately I’m pretty sure- it’s been getting worse and worse over the last fortnight that we’ve been away. Thought he was teething but dribbling has stopped, no new teeth have appeared, and it’s just getting worse.

At home we have proper blackout blinds and a normal (instead of travel) cot, so I’ll see if those two things help. He was down to 1-2 wake ups and that was bad enough...

We had exactly this when we went on holiday with our 8mo. She was just really unsettled and anxious about being a new place and then that morphed into bad sleep habits! We did pretty gentle controlled crying sleep training when we got home and it passed really quickly. Although now it's so hot, it's got a bit worse again!

You can't judge baby's longer term sleep habits based on what sleep is like on holiday - sleep is always worse on holiday.

Having said that, completely normal for baby to need extra bits of help to sleep every now and again throughout the first 5 years of baby's life. There will be there regressions. Key is to not create extra unwanted habits (like feeding to sleep) when dealing with them. Better instead to establish a few in-cot settling methods for when extra TLC is needed for a few weeks

Right so we’ve been back a week and now the heatwave is over. He’s sleeping 7.30/8pm to 00.40 (almost to the exact minute every night) and then to 4am (03.40-04.30 is the window) then til 7am or so. I’m breastfeeding to sleep both times, and at 6am if he wakes then and is happy to go back to sleep til 8am or so. DH is on hand to help if necessary.

Please advise! I’m so, so tired.

We're you doing night feeds before, or is this reintroducing them after previously being night weaned?

Either way, the answer will be to night wean (and also seperate feeding and sleeping at bedtime and naptime). Then teach her to go from awake to asleep in the cot.

I’ve always done night feeds on demand. He settles at nap and bedtime in the cot by himself- ie feed, kiss, light off, and he sleeps.

What would you recommend as the best method for night weaning though? Is 8mo old enough?

Bumping for advice on night weaning, if anyone has any please...

Take a look at The Beyond Sleep Training Project. You can night wean without sleep training

Thanks, I’ve just taken a look but it goes directly against what I want and my parenting ethos as they are anti sleep training....!

3 suggestions for when he wakes overnight:

Before he wakes, pick him up c. 11pm and offer a dream feed
When he wakes have your partner give him a bottle of formula
When he wakes offer him some water (cooled down boiled water)- to see if really hungry

Thanks, I’m thinking the same - 11pm dream feed and DH offering water for the rest of the night? Maybe start with expressed milk for the first 3 nights, then water if he’s still waking?

Worried about a lot of crying initially as DH has never done a night feed so baby will be very shocked! I felt very confident with my method of choice when I got him to go to sleep by himself, and I feel like that confidence is critical to help me be consistent, which is why I’m agonising over what to decide...

Do you ever give formula?

Btw pls don’t over think this, no baby was damaged from being offered formula or a dad getting up in the night. You need to function and survive, I loved breastfeeding but I am a person too, and combi feeding saved me. So many MN think the bigger the martyr the better the mother- such crap.
I did controlled crying to settle and never left her to cry overnight- just my preference. A bottle of formula at bed time definitely helped her sleep through once a bit older.

I haven’t given formula except when leaving him with my parents when he was teeny-tiny, maybe twice ever. I have a very strong (but irrational, I know!) preference for breastmilk, but I’ve not slept more than 4-5hs in a row max (usually 3-4) in the last year as I also suffered with insomnia during my pregnancy... reaching my limit now.

@Goostacean

I’ve always done night feeds on demand. He settles at nap and bedtime in the cot by himself- ie feed, kiss, light off, and he sleeps.

What would you recommend as the best method for night weaning though? Is 8mo old enough?

At 8 months you could night wean fully. Note the emphasis on could. The thing is, night feeds at this stage are 100% about comfort, not calories. Baby can and would be fine not taking in any calories or fluids for the 10-12h of overnight sleep and daytime feeding would very quickly adjust to ensure all calories (and fluids) needed over 24h are taken during the daytime.

However...

Babies have under-developed emotional responces, just as they have limited physical capabilities and need you to help them - emotional needs are equally as important as physical needs (like calories).

Comfort is equally as important as calories.

So while your baby does not need the feed for the calories. Your baby does need to feel comforted, protected and safe in order to go to sleep. The emotional development needed to not need that comforted feeling to go to sleep comes at preschool age (3-5y). By then children can just lie down, close eyes, relax and sleep. Up until then children need the added help of feeling comforted.

That comfort can come in many forms. A dummy to suck is a normal form of comfort. A teddy/blankie can develop as a comforter over time. Some babies suck their thumb or have other repetative actions they do to self-comfort. Some babies are patted or just need to know Mummy is closeby to get the feeling. Other babies feed for comfort.

Your issue OP is, from what youve written here, you sleep trained with controlled crying but then have not established ways for baby to feel comforted to sleep.

What I'd do is stay by the cot when baby wakes and settle baby in the cot, without feeding, by cuddling, being close, patting, shushing or whatever it takes. The key thing is to establish a way to comfort to sleep that is not feeding.

Is he thirsty? He may want water, not milk.

@FATEdestiny - at what age would you say it’s the case that babies don’t need calories overnight? So much conflicting advice online about that.

3 or 4 months old, certainly by 6 months.

But as I said, night feeds are often necessary for longer than this for reasons linked to comfort, rather than calories.

He’s still very young at 8 months, and his wake up times seem very standard for a baby of his age, maybe he’s thirsty which is why he’s waking.

My daughter paediatric dietitian said most babies need milk over night until they are 1 year old. I would be wary of night weaning at such a young age without medical advice.

Comfort is equally as important as calories.

Mm, yes and no. His comfort every 3/4/5hs is now meaning that I’m becoming a distant and permanently grumpy parent, so I do want him to learn that the cot is a safe space and he doesn’t need me when he wakes in the night. If he needed the calories like newborns do, there’s no question that I’d be feeding entirely on demand- as I did.

When I settle him for his naps or at bedtime, I do give him a muslin which he nuzzles and sucks on, but he’s happy for me to leave the room. He does also have very long naps, usually 2h-2h15 in the morning and the same in the afternoon, even up to 3h15 a couple of times this week. But then wakes at similar intervals at night, after his initial longer sleep of say 8pm-12.30am.

The whole thing is a mess. With both my children I’ve always done my utmost not to wake them from naps, with the (misguided?) view that it’s probably healthier for brain development for them to self-regulate. My DS1 only slept through consistently when he went to nursery at 15mo. But I could rest during the day with him, as I didn’t have an active toddler charging around.

I think 3-5 hourly wake ups for 8 month old is pretty ‘normal’ unfortunately

Sorry, just to summarise the routine in case that helps advise:

10am-12.15pm: nap. Beforehand: milk feed, into sleeping bag in cot, white noise, blackout blinds, muslin for comfort, kiss, mum leaves room.
12.15-2.00pm: awake time, car trip to pick up sibling from nursery, lunch.
2.00-4.30pm: nap, routine as above.
4.30-7.45pm: awake time. Play, dinner, bath, bedtime routine after bath is same as nap routine except no white noise usually.
Wake at roughly 00.45, 0345, maybe also 6am? Mum enters room, no lights, picks up baby, feeds in chair by cot, puts back into cot, leaves room. Wake up for the day either around 7.30am if no 6am wake up or 8.15-8.30am if 6am wake up...

Could you settle him a different way when he wakes in the night?