Sleep train a 9 month old?

[Darkestseasonofall]

Please help, I'm at my wits end and absolutely hating being a mother at the moment.

DC 2 is a 9mo boy who is an absolute sleep dodger.

He goes to bed at 7, and is up throughout the night, sometimes as frequently as 2 hourly. He absolutely demands milk, no amount of rocking / offering water etc works. His will is strong, he absolutely won't go back to sleep til he gets milk.

He's been a good napper, but lately refuses naps unless punched in the pram.

I'm due back to work soon and just can't function on the broken sleep.

I've read various websites and blogs etc, but everything is so contradictory.

Please help a desperate woman....

It's so tough when they don't sleep, especially if you are going back to work!

It could be teeth or a sleep regression or he might be transitioning to drop a nap? I sleep trained mine about 7 or 8 months as his night sleep was getting worse and not better. I absolutely would in your case, both you and your DS needs better sleep in longer chunks.

Dies he eat well? Is he breast or bottle fed? How many naps and for how long? Does he have any sleep associations like a dummy or white noise?

@bingaling30 thanks for replying.

He's formula fed and was doing well weaning. He's now spoon refusing as well though so his intake probably isn't great, as enthusiastic as he is about eating not much actually gets into his mouth.

His naps are erratic, some days 2, other days 3. He has white noise but no dummy.

I hear you about the teething but he's permanently teething and may be for another 6 months, I can't wait that long, I'm at breaking point.

How did you sleep train and how long did it take if you don't mind please?

It's frowned on on Mumsnet but I did controlled crying. Basically started a short bedtime routine so he knew what was coming, put him in his cot and said 'night night it's sleepytime', put his white noise on and his dummy and left him. He cried straight away so I went in after a minute, said sleepytime and left, then increased the time gradually like 1min, 2mins, 4 mins etc.

He cried for nearly 2 hours the first night but it was his angry protesting cry as opposed to a properly upset/scared cry. Second night he cried for half an hour and the 3rd night he lay quietly and went to sleep in about 10 mins. Since then we have been able to just put him in his cot and leave and he is perfectly happy falling asleep himself. He will also go to sleep no problem for other people as long as they follow the same routine.

It didn't completely stop the night waking but he definitely woke less, maybe a max of twice a night and would go back to sleep without us going in to him. He started sleeping right through at 11 months when he also dropped to 1 nap a day, and he's 16 months now and sleeps 12-13hours a night and a 2 hour nap before lunch.

Thanks again for the advice.

It's really hard isn't it because you need to be feeling quite mentally strong to do it, but you can't feel strong when you're exhausted, it's a cruel irony.

I think I'll try it on the weekend, a few nights of pain in return for more sleep seems like a good deal.

Leaving your baby to cry may increase their risk of anxiety and depression in later life.

Leaving a baby for two hours until they're passed out and exhausted is cruel.

We did gradual retreat at this age - so staying with him but not picking up and then, when he was used to that, gradually making our way out of the room night by night. If you Google 'mumsnet what worked for us' you'll find quite a detailed thread explaining almost exactly what we did. However, we used a sleep consultant, pretty much because of this:

It's really hard isn't it because you need to be feeling quite mentally strong to do it, but you can't feel strong when you're exhausted, it's a cruel irony.

We absolutely could have done it without the sleep consultant - as I said, almost exactly the same routine is online for free - but we felt so ground down and unsure of ourselves that for us having someone supporting us and to give individual guidance was worth the money.

There is, incidentally, absolutely no proof that this is true, if by 'leaving your baby' to cry you mean a few nights of sleep training and not sustained long-term neglect:
Leaving your baby to cry may increase their risk of anxiety and depression in later life.

Sorry, that made it sound like I wrote the 'what worked for us' thread - I didn't, I just happened to stumble across it and it describes what we did almost exactly!

We'd already reduced night feeds to almost zero, though, and I think you need to work on that before you do anything else because although he doesn't 'need' night feeds anymore if he's used to getting a lot of milk during the night he will be genuinely hungry without it.

@IloveBeefJerky it's statements like yours that lead women to have PND and feel like absolute shit about themselves. So please don't comment further.

@Hardbackwriter thanks for your posts, if only I had the spare funds for a sleep consultant right now .
The thing with the milk is that I think it's more that it sends him to sleep, so when he wakes after his sleep cycle he wants the milk to sleep, rather than perhaps genuine hunger? I think it's a catch 22, I can't stop the milk without him being able to self settle, and I can't imagine a way of him settling without some sort of sleep training. Your posts are really helpful, I'll look up that other thread now.

I can comment on what l like, that's what happens when you post on an open forum.

Hi @Darkestseasonofall when my friends little girl was waking during the night she gave her water instead of milk and soon enough she was sleeping through. Wish I could be of more help but my DS has been a great sleeper. X

@IloveBeefJerky you sure can, and if you get your kicks out of sticking the proverbial knife into someone who has described themselves as desperate and at their wits end, then I should probably feel charitable toward you as you clearly have psychological issues.

@nutterpotter thanks for your post, I'd sell my withered old soul for a good sleeper we've tried the water trick, I should have mentioned that sorry. He was furious!

Nope! There are studies that suggest leaving your child increases their stress and can lead to an increase in anxiety and depression. Have a read for yourself online.

I think you should do what's right for you and your baby, if they're not sleeping at all then that isn't good for them either so I can understand why you would want to do it. But just know both side of it.

And I do think PP leaving their baby to cry for two whole hours is very cruel. If you do it I hope you set a time limit on how long you'll keep it going for.

Nope! There are studies that suggest leaving your child increases their stress and can lead to an increase in anxiety and depression. Have a read for yourself online.

Go on, then, link to one. I'm confident if you do that it either won't show what you think it does or it'll turn out to be about serious neglect, not sleep training. I did a lot of research (and I'm a trained researcher) and I kept just finding more and more blogs that claimed 'evidence' that sleep training was harmful that turned out to be no such thing on further inspection. Their guru seems to be Sarah Ockwell-Smith, who has a particular penchant for misrepresenting research to make it fit what she already thinks.

@IloveBeefJerky

Leaving your baby to cry may increase their risk of anxiety and depression in later life.

Leaving a baby for two hours until they're passed out and exhausted is cruel.

I agree. I can't imagine doing it! We co slept and it worked well, we all had sufficient sleep.

@IloveBeefJerky I never once said I left him to pass out exhausted from crying, but thanks for that lovely judgement on my parenting. He stopped and started for a period of approximately 2 hours while I reassured him I was there and never left him for more than 5 minutes. Thankfully I have a very well rounded, happy and confident child and don't have to justify myself to you at all.

@Darkestseasonofall I agree with the previous poster who said about cracking the night feeds first, my DS dropped his night feeds quite early although did take the odd bottle during a growth spurt later on. Can you give him his bedtime bottle earlier with a bit of a gap between it and bedtime so he gradually stops associating it with getting over to sleep?

@IloveBeefJerky Citation please. You cannot just make bold (nonsense) claims then suggest people find their own evidence to support them.

@Darkestseasonofall I hear you about just wanting a plan and not knowing what to tackle first. So hard to unpick it when you’re tired. At 9 months he’s definitely suckling for comfort not hunger so as long as you’re confident in his bedtime routine I’d just crack on with the cc.

My third dc is 6 months and I’m struggling all over again but will definitely be sleep training soon. I keep thinking I’ll address Short naps, no start with night feeds, no focus on not feeding to sleep, no get naps consistently in cot (and on and on) but it’s all one Gordian knot!

We co slept and it worked well, we all had sufficient sleep.

Then you don't really have anything relevant to say to people who aren't getting sufficient sleep. I tried cosleeping with DS multiple times and he simply didn't sleep in our bed, he thought it was playtime. Just because something worked for you and your children doesn't make it a magic bullet.

We co slept and it worked well, we all had sufficient sleep.

Tried that, DS slept brilliantly however I definitely did not. Then he got too big and we were waking each other up all the time. Cosleeping is hailed as the answer to all baby sleep issues on Mumsnet but in real life it rarely works among the mums I know.

The fact is there is no one size fits all when it comes to babies, Bingaling, as I'm sure you know well. We just have to play it by ear and best not to have too many rules or preconceived ideas. I was a great one for doing what comes naturally.

Cosleeping is hailed as the answer to all baby sleep issues on Mumsnet
I've noticed the opposite, parents generally seem anxious to put their babies in cots to 'self settle' from a very early age.

We found controlled crying worked well with both our boys - we were at wits end, as you are.

Other methods work for other mums/babies, but this is what worked for us.

We also found that a strong bedtime routine before bed - particularly a book for our second - helps enormously.

Good luck!

Is he in his own room?

We did bath, book and milk and placed in cot, kiss goodnight and leave room.

We let baby cry for no more than 10 minutes at a time. After ten minutes go in, cuddle and reassure , put back down. The first night it was about 50 minutes of crying (with a pick up every 10) Second night baby was asleep in 20 minutes. Night wakes drastically fell, just a quick cuddle and place back down. By 11 months baby slept right through and continues to do so.

Whilst I HATED hearing baby cry, I knew they were okay and could view them on the monitor.

Whatever method you choose, make sure both you and partner are committed as the first few nights are the toughest, when I wanted to crack my husband was ready to step in. I breastfed during initial night wakes (then just cuddles or a back stroke) but if I were you I'd offer water and a cuddle instead of making a bottle.

Don't listen to anyone saying some sleep methods cause long term damage to children, it's rubbish. babies need to learn how to sleep and parents need sleep too.

I had so much great advice and support on here from other mothers that really helped. Good luck!

@Darkestseasonofall how is his milk intake in the day? We didn’t have a problem at night but did with naps. He would often wake after one sleep cycle and wanted more milk to resettle. We found moving his milk from before his nap to after helped. Took a week to have affect and it was hard initially as he associated milk with sleep but now he naps well and if he does wake at night resettled without milk.

I did it at 7 months with my son, controlled crying as per previous posters.

Does he eat well during the day? My sleep consultant seem to basically follow the Gna Frd plan for meals and naps and it actually worked- before I'd BF on demand so he'd never be hungry for meals. When I cut it down he BF really well and had a lot more solids.

Good luck. My husband helped me - it was difficult to hear him crying but two night of a bit of crying on and off and he slept through- 7 til 5.

Thank you all for all the lovely supportive posts.

He is in his own room, albeit one of us is in there with him in a single bed, with him in his cot.

I've coslept on occasion when I'm beyond desperate, he seems to like it but I get very little sleep still, and I'm not entirely comfortable with it as a method.

I'm going to do it this weekend, it's decided. My DM has kindly offered to have dd sleep over for a weekend so she isn't driven mad by it. Hopefully DP and I can just be strong and get it done, and nap in the day if needed.