SIDS, newborn & toddler naps

[Wingingthis]

Hello,

I have a (very noisy/clumsy/energetic) 2.5 year old and a 2 month old. I’m aware all 2.5 month olds naps are meant to be in the same room as me but how on earth am I meant to do this with a toddler around? The sling works but is breaking my back (I have a very sleepy baby who needs big naps) pram walks are fine as well but find it hard with the toddler who isn’t great at not running off. And obviously we’re not going to any toddler groups at the moment so no car naps really! Help please!

Confused as to why child needs to nap with you in the same room? I understand infant death of course, but you'll drive yourself crazy. If it's causing stress then perhaps a Baby monitor with video would suit you, so you can see eldest child when they're napping

So you can see you youngest asleep not your eldest.. Or have 2 and see both

Mine just slept through older siblings noise, usually I kept them in the room with me often in the pram carrycot or in the sling. If your sling is hurting your back you might need a better fit or a different sling because it shouldn’t be painful.

Video baby monitor for the newborn? Buggy board or reins for the toddler when on pram walks to stop him running off? Could you let your toddler run around and burn off energy when baby is awake then encourage quiet time when baby is sleeping (read stories, painting, colouring, play doh, ice some biscuits, water play....). What kind of sling do you have? I found a fabric wrap one was much more comfortable in the house with a small baby, rather than my outdoor one.

I always put my babies in their own rom, or outside in the pram. I am aware this is not the current advice, but advice changes and in many countries this is still the norm. As with all things baby related do what you feel is right for you, and what you are relaxed with. Chances are the advice will change again.

Mine napped in the carry cot bit of the pram downstairs.

Mine slept downstairs with me with loud white noise on.

I have similar ages and I use the sling. If you’re finding that uncomfortable I would suggest trying a different one. My baby won’t nap for long in the pram bassinet that we have downstairs, and my toddler does disturb her except when in the sling. People go on about “get them used to napping with normal noise” etc which is all very well but some babies manage and some don’t.

Mine used to sleep in the bassinet part of the pram, either attached to the pram, or unclipped and in the room with me, or in a bouncy chair. The bassinet was great because it fitted in with school run, nursery run etc. I could go out to the park or shops. I've never been chained to the house all day because of nap times. Night time in a cot but not always in the same room though, eg. I might be washing dishes with the baby cam not in the bedroom too. Toddler in their own room

I did also use a sling

I never followed the advice that you stay in same room with them at all times. I also have 2.5 year old and to me it seems impossible. That's my choice tho and so far it's worked for me.

@BabySleepTeacherUK

In a bouncer??? And you are a Sleep teacher?

No!!!!! Never let your small baby sleep in a bouncer

@BabySleepTeacherUK

That is VERY unsafe advice and you should not be telling anyone to do that

I'm very wary of the advice from the (apparent) 'sleep teacher' poster. She pops up on practically every thread in the sleep topic with some bizarre sounding advice.

Is @BabySleepTeacherUK formerly known as fatedestiny

Who has exactly the same advice for every problem ever?

And independent sleeping is essential. Tapping the dummy. Bladeblah

Yes, it's me. Championing independant sleep on the sleep board of Mumsnet for years and years!

Regarding Bouncers - nothing to be alarmed about, they are not considered unsafe by the Lullaby Trust (which is the advisory body on SIDS for the NHS and UK government).

Lullaby Trust are fairly more about this aspect of safe sleep than they are other aspects, for reasons I'm happy to explain in more depth for anyone interested, because it's not black and white and considering this aspect of safe sleep requires some view of managing risk (as opposed to eliminating risk).

There's a list of items considered unsafe and would not recommend parents buy (see attached image). Note that bouncers are not on this.

There is also the very clear advice from Lullaby Trust that "The safest place for a baby to sleep is a separate cot, crib or Moses basket. We recommend a firm, flat, waterproof mattress."

There are a lot of sleep instances that are in the middle here that Lullaby Trust accept are not the "safest" answer, but are equally not considered "unsafe" and therefore are options to parents, in a risk managed way.

The are many very examples to this but here are a few:
● Cosleeping
● Sling
● Pushchair
● Carseats (for under 2h)
● Holding in arms (when not tired)
● Asleep on a carpeted floor (the joy of babies who do this... just fall asleep while playing!)
● BOUNCY CHAIR (caps deliberate)

It comes down to understanding that safe sleep is not a matter of eliminating risk to zero. It is about managing risk in a way that makes it as low as possible. This may mean the risk management is not "safest" but it is equally not "unsafe".

So @DontWantToAdult, for this and the several other old threads you decided to search for of mine yesterday: That is VERY unsafe advice and you should not be telling anyone to do that

No. No it is not.

Wingingthis specifically asked for suggestions on managing baby naps while also entertaining a 2yo toddler.

The answer is naps in a bouncy chair.

This allows for supervised naps in a very practical and useful way. It allows baby to nap right next to you as you're on the floor playing with toddler. It allows for movement to help baby sleep easily.

It is not unsafe.

It is also not "safest", but neither is cosleeping. Or sling. Or holding baby. All these are offered as answers without outrage.

My child slept in a bouncer as did her two older cousins who we inherited the bouncer from. I was told it was fine by Midwives, Health Visitors and my Doctor.
Eldest cousin is 19 now so it was an old style bouncer. It could be laid flat or various sitting up levels. Modern bouncers do seem a lot more 'fussy' - vibrations, music playing, toys attached, head rest in the shape of animals etc. Maybe those style are considered not safe for sleeping? The type I had was essentially the same shape as the seat of a pram. Flat for sleeping and sitting up for awake time.

Yeah, old school z-frame ones are best - not least because you can sit on the sofa and use your foot to keep them bouncing.

I know the Fisher Price ones have a "play arch" type thing with lots of lights and sounds. But the good thing is, you can remove this arch to leave a standard bouncer.

Not sure about all the expensive mechanical ones on the market though. Basic cheapie for me, all the way.

@BabySleepTeacherUK

It wasnt old posts, it was 2 posts within 2 weeks...

Your two posts have been deleted because they are unsafe advice.

The lullaby trust, may not say they are unsafe but they dont say they are safe either.
They say a flat surface.....

It's good to get baby used to the noise of their older brother/normal household.

I would hoover, watch TV, do chores, cook, speak on the phone... all at a normal level whilst DD was asleep in her Moses basket/crib in the same room as me.
She was able to sleep through anything.
DPs little girl is the total opposite; to the point where we can't flush the toilet, have a bath/shower, have the TV/conversations at audible levels or close doors without her waking up.

It might be worth getting baby to sleep in the sling, putting them in the Moses basket (same room) and then playing with the toddler, watching tv, doing something you can't do while baby is awake with them.
Mention that baby is sleeping so that we need to try and stay quiet, but continue with normal noise.

I don't understand how being in a sling is considered more safe than a baby bouncer. In a sling baby isn't laying flat. Baby is all bundled up with their head shoved against boobs. If it's a flat bouncer (or even slightly raised - recommended if baby has reflux) then I can't see why this would be an issue. But as I said the bouncer I used dates back almost 20 years so may be very different to what is on the market now.

A bouncer is not recommended.
Very dangerous

This is a similar shape to the bouncer I had. Mine didn't have an extra insert or play arch. Why is this considered dangerous when it is essentially the same shape as a pram seat? Genuine question. I am actually curious. My one was probably my most used piece of baby equipment.

Theres lots about it on the internet

Have a google