11 year old won’t go to sleep alone

[Slowyourboat]

Ugh help.
DD’s never been a particularly good sleeper. I’ve been pretty sleep deprived for the last 11 years but now later bedtimes as she gets older means DH and I barely get any time alone in the evenings.

About 4 nights a week she desperately wants someone with her as she goes to sleep. She will take any punishment-removal of screens, etc. as a fair price to pay for having someone (mainly me) with her. I don’t mind staying in her room and reading for a bit or something most nights but if she doesn’t go to sleep fairly quickly the majority of the evening’s gone.

We have tried just asking her to stay in her room whether or not she’s asleep so that dh & I can watch a programme or something but then she gets panicked that she won’t be able to sleep until late and creates such a fuss that it’s not worth it.

Obv things are a bit different at the moment and there are elements of anxiety about virus, not having the same levels of activity and interaction in the day but I think it is more of a control thing.

Dh has got really cross/upset with her this evening and told her it seems that she doesn’t care about anyone except herself.

Really need a strategy. Have tried so many things over the years but feel like we’ve failed spectacularly!

I have wondered about ASD before.
It’s not just time with Dh. I need time in the evenings to sort the house and work. (Currently not an issue but will be when back at work) Wasn’t a problem when bedtime lasted from 6-8 but now it lasts from 8-10. There’s no point starting earlier because she’s not tired enough and it’s counter productive.

Another Saturday, another crap night after her being ok all week-dh Or I settling her down and one of us popping in and out.
Tonight she’s crying again that she can’t sleep even with me in her room.
I know it’s horrible not to be able to sleep but she just won’t help herself. I’ve suggested she reads, or listens to a story or even gets up and colours.

This is screaming anxiety. She IS controlling - because she is anxious. She doesn't care about punishment because no punishment is as bad as being left alone with her anxiety.

You need to get her some help.

Have a phone appt with therapist booked for next week

My DD is 12 and we had years of her being anxious going to bed and me sleeping in her room or her sleeping in our room, not all the time but on and off. She can still get anxious now, sometimes she will say she can’t breathe and worried she is going to die in her sleep. It really is hard. I don’t have to stay in my DDs room to get her to sleep anymore, but it definitely helped when she was younger to say I was going to just go in another room to do something and pop back and then make it longer and longer. Until eventually she started falling asleep on her own. We don’t have to do that at all now but if she’s having a wobble I will still sit in her room and chat to her and reassure her. Maybe you could try letting her bedtime be later, or just letting her read in her room until she’s really tired and not pushing her to switch her light off until she’s ready. It won’t last for ever but if she’s genuinely anxious no amount of threats or punishments will stop it.

I’d look into CBT for the anxiety, it is generally very effective and considered the gold standard treatment for sleep difficulties. I saw a doctor who specialized in CBT for sleep and it was amazing. I also had anxiety about not being able to fall asleep which in turn made it harder to sleep, it’s a really vicious cycle. 11 is way too old not to be able to sleep alone, I think addressing the underlying cause is really important here for her to develop good sleep habits long term.

She is saying she doesn’t want to speak to anyone else about it and that they won’t be able to help anyway.
The therapist does an hours conversation with me first anyway and I think that will probably be helpful even if dd won’t engage.

This is the issue I have as well. Dd won’t do any of the things you need to do to tackle it. Eg listening to relaxing cds, visualisation, etc. Op I’ll pm you later as you certainly aren’t alone!

Definitely talk to the therapist yourself, your DD almost certainly will not be the first pre-teen the therapist has seen who doesn't want to engage! Is your DD scientifically minded at all? Would she be interested in reading about the science behind sleep? There are great resources online and a lot of CBT is about understanding why and what will help you. You may find as well that she responds better to the therapist, sometimes it's easier to talk to a stranger about your fears.

One of the best things my Dr said to me was "you won't die from not sleeping," subconsciously, I did feel like I would die from insomnia and that fuelled a huge amount of anxiety.

It could be an idea to see if the therapist can recommend any forumns/support groups. It might help your DD if there is another child of a similar age who has successfully tackled sleeping to know that it WILL help.

In the short term, something that really helped me was essentially placebo medication (taking a low dose of melatonin), I told myself that it would help me sleep and since I'd taken it, I would be just fine, that was enough to remove the anxiety. As a child, I also had worry dolls that I told my worries too (little tiny wooden dolls) and put under my pillow, this helped a lot with childhood anxiety - it's sort of the child's version of writing down what you're worried about to relieve your mind.

One of the first things a therapist will do too is have your DD keep a sleep diary and also work on good sleep hygiene, these are both low pressure things that you can start to do with her before she sees anyone, you can probably do some of them without her even knowing, although it would probably help to understand that good sleep hygiene usually helps people sleep. A lot of CBT is helping you realize that the awful thing you thought was going to happen either 1. didn't happen nearly as often as you thought it would and 2. wasn't actually that bad. A therapist would have your DD write down or write down for her what she thinks will happen when she tries to go to sleep, or wakes up in the night, how often she thinks it will happen and how bad she thinks it will be and to do this every night for a week. She would then have her write down what actually happened, how often and how she felt about it in the morning.

Lastly, I would really try baby steps, don't try and get her to do everything at once. Start small with a sleep journal and worry dolls, or try a placebo pill and maybe read something together about sleep science and try and build from there. Or agree a few sleep hygiene things you're going to try for 3-4 days. Try and take the pressure off her sleeping - I truly dreaded going to sleep every night, I cried just thinking about it.

Thank you. That’s helpful.
Might do us good to revisit sleep hygiene. Maybe go back to nightly baths rather than shower or wash. She knows not to be on her phone close to bedtime but it’s hard as her friends are all messaging at that time. We have some rescue remedy somewhere. Might try that as a placebo if nothing else.

My 8 year old is the same.

Confident and happy during the day but hates being alone at night

We've ended up moving her back in with her sibling (which has its own problems), which helps a lot.

We are in a 4 storey house and she simply cannot sleep if she's not on the same level as our bedroom.

Punishments just don't work. We still get the odd night when she reappears.

I just remind her that sleep will come when it's ready and just to relax and plan her. Ext birthday party etc. Telling her to sleep doesn't help at all.

I've also found that she needs tiring out. She's needs a lot of exercise! When she's physically tired she barely ever gets wound up. It's when she doesn't feel shattered that the anxiety creeps in.

Not much use now but can you increase her after school activities when everything starts up again? If she's shattered then she might find it easier to drift off? X

Thanks for some of these ideas.

She’s in my bed 🙄 fast asleep as soon as she came in. I’m still so torn between going with it, especially in current circumstances and trying to help move her away from it.
The more I try to help the more of an issue it seems to makes it.

Exercise is also a great call! My sleep doctor said to think of sweat as liquid anxiety - it really helps with sleep for lots of reasons.

I like the idea of thinking of sweat as liquid anxiety. She might go for that.
Ironically I had a dreadful night’s sleep. Wide awake for hours!

I have a 7 year old who is very similar so it's been helpful to read these comments. It's so incredibly hard, so you have my sympathy.

Slow I think you have something there - “the more I try to help the more of an issue it makes it”. You are seeing DDs need for closeness from the point of view of your own needs/wants/ideals. They don’t match hers so you’re effectively telling her she’s out of whack, that there’s something wrong with her. There isn’t. Let her be. In early teenage years kids naturally develop a need for privacy and to asset themselves as separate. The more reassurance you give her now, the more confident she’ll be to separate from you when it’s right for her - which won’t be long. She’s suffering, and so are you - it’s unnecessary.

Hi OP.
Our 11 yr old dd is exactly the same at the moment. I bought her a larger bed so I can get in with her at night. She then sleeps well but I don’t!!
Just wondering how it’s all going for you now.
Xx