11 year old won’t go to sleep alone

[Slowyourboat]

Ugh help.
DD’s never been a particularly good sleeper. I’ve been pretty sleep deprived for the last 11 years but now later bedtimes as she gets older means DH and I barely get any time alone in the evenings.

About 4 nights a week she desperately wants someone with her as she goes to sleep. She will take any punishment-removal of screens, etc. as a fair price to pay for having someone (mainly me) with her. I don’t mind staying in her room and reading for a bit or something most nights but if she doesn’t go to sleep fairly quickly the majority of the evening’s gone.

We have tried just asking her to stay in her room whether or not she’s asleep so that dh & I can watch a programme or something but then she gets panicked that she won’t be able to sleep until late and creates such a fuss that it’s not worth it.

Obv things are a bit different at the moment and there are elements of anxiety about virus, not having the same levels of activity and interaction in the day but I think it is more of a control thing.

Dh has got really cross/upset with her this evening and told her it seems that she doesn’t care about anyone except herself.

Really need a strategy. Have tried so many things over the years but feel like we’ve failed spectacularly!

I agree that even if there is a manipulative element to this, it may well be because your DD is so wracked with anxiety that she is desperately coming up with any way of keeping you close.

Looking at it from another angle, your average 11 year old is generally wanting more time to themselves, and see their bedroom more and more as their private haven where they can chat to their friends online, rather than have their mum sitting there. I suspect that deep down your DD could be desperately sad that her anxiety isn't allowing her to do these things and is forcing her to behave like a little girl.

IMO she needs your help, not punishment, as much as this must be frustrating for you. Please think about finding out some options for counselling.

@Sausagefingers yes the solidarity helps thank you-sounds very similar and well done to you for getting so far (i recognise the feeling of going back to square 1)
I have (almost) Fond memories of sleeping on a mattress on her floor and moving it a tiny bit every day for weeks until we finally made it back into our room when she was about 5. How proud we were that we’d cracked it! How little we knew!

Bless her. That must be so hard. I used to be like this. My mum had a still born and I was literally terrified I'd die in my sleep because the baby had died and my mum couldn't give me any reason for why it had happened. In my small head it just made sense. I still sleep with the lamp on sometimes! I hope she overcomes her anxiety x

Take a look at the paediatric sleep council website lots of resources on there. My local children's hospital has an excellent children's sleep team which specialise in sleep disorders. First stop would be your gp if you wanted further clinical intervention.

Funnily enough my 11.5 year old DD is going through the exact thing at the moment.

I suspect there is some insecurity with her BFF.

I watch 1 hour tv with DH then come up. It means she goes to bed later but school is shut so I don't mind.

Does it work if you pop in every so often? So say 10 mins, then 15 mins or "just making a drink and I'll come back"
When I was little we lived above the pub and I found weirdly the sort of hum of chatting and glasses and noise very comforting, it was silence I didn't like. Podcasts to listen to?

slowyourboat that sounds plausible. She may need help to deal with what sounds like emetophobia to be able to knock this on the head, and possible general anxiety tendencies, too.

Just out of interest, how does she react if/when she actually vomits and do you know what the trigger for the emetophobia (if it is that) was?

My DD13 has OCD and sleep has never been good but she's needed someone with her for the past 18 months. The Headspace app helps if she's got into a real tiz (Cat Marina is her gave sleep cast) or listening to Enya.

As PP have said - she's only little once (although taller than me now!) and we don't mind providing comfort. I see it as part of the job description.

My dd is exactly the samed suffers from anxiety-had a panic attack before bed the other night. Will post again tomorrow but just know you aren’t alone.

My 11 yr old is like this. Sometimes I give in and stay, often though I fall asleep in his bed which is a bonus for him.

Other times I will stay, snuggle and massage him before leaving him alone listening to podcasts. He will routinely keep coming down to find out when I am going to bed and he will stay up. If my dh want time together, I explain we do bedtime and he will settle, though sometimes he wants to then sleep on the floor in my bedroom.

It is frustrating at times, but I keep reminding myself he is just a child and I am trying to meet a basic need. In a few years, he will be a fully fledged teenager and I doubt he will want me, so I cherish the time he needs me now.

My ds 11 is doing exactly the same at the moment. He's had me up until the back of one in the morning on occasions because he's so worried he will be the last one awake. We had my mum living with us for a while, and even with her in sharing his room, he still wanted me to be awake until he fell asleep. It's so tiring.

What happens when she does say at her grandparents/other houses? Does she settle?

Or what about if you want an early night and go to bed first? Would DH put her to bed or would she try and get into your bed?

What about DH trying to put her to bed (without getting frustrated) so she doesn't use you as a 'comfort blanket'?

Tbh I remember sleeping in my mums bed until I was about 14 but my dad worked nights so I don't think she minded

As someone with anxiety disorders, you really need to get her some professional help to give her some strategies to start dealing with her anxiety before this cripples her her whole life. And staying in her room because she is anxious is not helpful. You are providing reassurance and this will feed the anxiety long term.

She needs some strategies ASAP and you need to stop any behaviours that feed her anxiety.

You said yet mediation stories help but she "prefers" you in the room. Well then you have to be clear that she needs to use the things that help that don't involve you. She needs to learn to self soothe. It's a very important life skill. You can't be there forever.

@littlefawn on the odd occasion she stays at grandparents she does tend to settle but she’s in a room with her brother and grandparents close by.
Staying with friends/school trips-she’s really nervous before hand, tends to be one of the last ones to fall asleep but enjoys it once she’s there.
She did have one trip away with guides which was a bit of a disaster and reinforced all her worries about being away.
@Tolleshunt she hasn’t actually been sick for years and years so don’t know how she’d react if she actually was. I suspect like most things the idea of it is worse than the actual event. The trigger was either me having an awful sickness bug a few years ago and or her brother being sick outside the bathroom when she was in there so she felt ‘trapped’.

Any recommendations for online professional help?

She will settle for dh but often creeps into our bed during the night. I don’t mind this as it doesn’t disturb us.

Oh I feel sorry for her. You talk about "punishments" she just needs some reassurance.

slow I’m afraid I don’t have a personal recommendation, but there is somebody I heard is good. I will DM you their details. Whoever you decide she should see, have a good chat with them beforehand and make sure you feel comfortable with them.

She might be resistant to seeing anyone, but with the level of anxiety you describe I really feel it would be in her best interests.

All sounds very familiar: DS12 suffers from anxiety, and three main manifestations are selective mutism, food issues and sleep. For about last three years he won’t go to sleep unless either someone in his room or in room next door. So that usually means one of us stays next door (our study) and does something on the PC. So could be worse but means we don’t spend much of the evening together.

We initially refused to give in to it but just spent whole evening going up and down the stairs as he called for us. So this works best for us. Occasionally we go out for the evening and only way he will even turn his light out is if his older sister sleeps in his room.

We can sometimes get away with being in another room upstairs and have so far been trying to do that a bit more but for now have given up trying to both be downstairs.

We have found that for all his anxiety issues we have to take minuscule steps so suspect that is the way to go here - so like when they were little you started off cuddling them then maybe just touching then other side of room then by door then outside door. What I’m not sure is whether at this age is whether to agree that with them or just do it.

Have had a chat and yes the worry about going to sleep too late was about being sick.
Have tried to explain that me staying with her isn’t helpful and she needs other ways of relaxing.
Have also contacted a local therapist who says she will work with us.

Having said she’s normally well behaved, today she has been pressing every button trying to get a reaction, being very controlling with her brother and generally miserable.
I’m sure this is in response to DH’s reaction last night. He is also miserable today so it’s not a good day in our house!

Not going well tonight. I’m in her room and she keeps checking I’m still here so it’s not actually helping her get to sleep at all.
Feel so shit that I’ve enabled this insecurity. I’m tempted to just go to sleep myself.

I guess she’s got wind that you are planning to help her move away from this. It might make her anxiety ramp up a bit, if she is viewing the idea of sleeping by herself in the context of how she feels now, and finding it hard to imagine that she could actually feel ok about it.

Re the sickness, it might be that because she hasn’t been sick for years, she hasn’t had the opportunity of finding out that although it’s not pleasant, it’s bearable and ends reasonably quickly. So she’s built it up in her mind as a really big deal.

Yes you’re right. And, as always, things that seem eminently sensible and doable during the day aren’t as straightforward at night.

Reading your posts reminds me so much of DD (12). We also have issues with sleeping and for a while DD wouldn't go to school as she worried about vomiting at school - DD has almost never been ill but someone at school had vomited and DD became paranoid about it.

After a lot of therapy and discussions DD has been diagnosed as autistic. Not saying your DD is but it may be worth checking. Girls show it in ways which people don't expect (even professionals) such as anxiety etc

Just comfort her. You’re her parents, that’s your job. She’ll have left home before you know it and you’ll have 30-40 years to enjoy your relationship with DH.
DS2 slept with me or DH until he was 13. Never begrudged a moment of it. It was what he needed. So what?