Feeling suicidal with sleep deprivation - 9 month old

[tftr]

My baby has been a terrible sleeper since the 4 month sleep regression (he woke at least every hour for more than 3 months).

We did some gentle sleep training at 7ish months (shush pat/pupd) and got him sleeping in his cot in his room and for longer stretches. Before this I was co sleeping and it really really didn’t work for us, as he was latched on the whole night suckling and neither of us got any sleep.

Since then we’ve had glimmers of hope (a few nights here and there of only 1 wake up/ 1 night of sleeping through).

However, with a succession of colds and teething and learning to crawl etc he is often up every two hours still. Obviously he can self settle as he can join sleep cycles, but won’t at these times.

I have insomnia and can’t sleep when he sleeps - every time I go to sleep I get woken up and this has been happening for so long I can’t get myself back to sleep anymore. I’m surviving off an average of 2-3 hours of broken sleep a night.

This week he’s been worse than ever (waking at least every two hours, fully awake from 4-6am, lots of standing in the cot crying).

Other potentially relevant info:

• naps on me or in pram only. Hysterical about napping in cot. This is making me feel like even more of a failure and means I really don’t get any time to myself. If I try to ‘work on’ cot naps he just sleeps for no time at all in day and this makes the nights worse

• tried strict routine and it did nothing. He does one things for 3/4/5 days - seeming to fall into line with a routine - then will completely change it for no obvious reason. Eg he’ll do 4 days of 1.5 hour lunch time naps at the same time, then the next day will only sleep for 45 mins at a different time and will do this for another few days before switching to something else. So I can also never make proper plans in day as I know I’ll have a baby sleeping on me but not when or for how long. (This is driving me crazy.)

• at the moment we are therefore just roughly following a 2/3/4 pattern plus watching for tiredness cues. He has a solid bedtime routine and goes to bed at roughly the same time every night with no fuss (fed to sleep and put in cot)

• eating some solids (but maybe not enough, don’t know) 3x day. Is heavy

• ebf on demand. Has usually 1-3 feeds a night but don’t think he really needs any/more than 1

• on waking at night is now usually left to grizzle / only attended to if becomes distressed. Recently though is sitting/standing in cot howling almost immediately

• has terrible separation anxiety, although I haven’t left him for more than a few mins his whole waking life. No one else can even hold him or he howls

I can’t cope anymore. I’m so frustrated by my complete failure to parent him successfully to sleep. I’m lying in bed at night thinking about how to kill myself as I can’t see a way out of this. I slept terribly when I was pregnant and have basically given up hope of ever sleeping again. My marriage is going down the drain and I have to go back to work soon.

I’m willing to get a sleep consultant/night nanny/do whatever to fix this as it is ruining my life but too frazzled to decide what to do. The sound of him crying makes my soul hurt but he’s crying a lot at night already so I’d be open to more sleep training - but he seems untrainable at the moment. He will just cry endlessly and the sound is making me hurt myself. I’m so worried that the lack of sleep is scarring him developmentally and I feel so guilty that he’s so unhappy at night. I always believed in attachment parenting and that things would be ok if I threw love at him but despite 9 months of me doing absolutely everything for him and nothing at all for myself they aren’t ok.

I think I’ve read the whole internet and I just can’t see the woods from the trees anymore. I feel like the worst mother with the worst sleeping 9 month old in the world.

Please could someone tell me what to do.

If you're breastfeeding, you should stop now, also.

Please don't feel bad. You must stop feeling like a bad mother. You aren't.

Sleep deprivation is a absolute killer. Only people who've had it can understand.

I had a totally different sort of situation to you, but Ds2 barely slept during the night : he slept on and off and then he would wake crying. I mean really howling all the time and then he would sleep for an hour or maybe two and then he would cry like really really cry. it was awful. he brought me to my knees and most HCP's that I met were very unsympathetic.

Please get support from Dh, GP, sleep consultant, friends, anyone.

Plus Tell your GP about ds sleeping and asked to be referred to the local hospital. in the meantime you might want to consider paying to see a Paed privately.

Is there any way that you can spend a night in a hotel, just to sleep without being woken? He will definitely be fine without you for a night and you’ll feel so much better. It’ll help you decide what to do if you’ve got a clear head

How your baby sleeps does not reflect upon your parenting ability. I’ve had 2, first one didn’t sleep, second did - none of it down to me.

Some really bad advice on this thread.
Most of all - don’t do anything you feel bad about - ‘controlled crying’ is not a cure all and could make things worse for all of you.
You could try homestart for some support.
Also wrt breastfeeding- only stop if you really want to - I was pressured into giving up with my first because she didn’t sleep and always fed to sleep. The effects of this were that my depression got much worse due to hormone changes and she still didn’t sleep and I now had no way of getting her to sleep at all. She just writhed around crying for 2 hours, slept for 20 mins then writhed around again. For me this was far worse.

Op it is not you. I'm going to say it again because it's really important IT IS NOT YOU.

Some babies just don't sleep like the books say they should. Neither of mine are sleepers, they just aren't. DS1 woke at least every 2 hours for at least his first year. It's shit but is does pass, this is not your life forever, it is a temporary state of affairs that you will get through. It will change.

There are two sides to it I think. The first is can you "fix" the problem by sleep training etc. The second is how do you "manage" your life to maximise sleep in the meantime/until they grow out of it.

I've never been able to fix mine so not much use on that front although I definitely think a sleep consultant is worth a try. I would also strongly advise that you see your GP and talk about how you feel honestly.

I have found ways to manage though so this is what I'd suggest:

1. will baby settle if DH co-sleeps with him? Comfort but no boob? Might be worth a try?

2. I did most night wakings due to bf but DH took over everyday at 5am and I then got a couple of extra hours. On weekends I slept until 9/10/11 if needs be. DH gave breakfast and if absolutely necessary brought him to me for feeds and then took him back down. Use ear plugs/ask DH to take baby to MIL/the park/soft play/swimming. If baby is very attached to you the you need people to take him out so you can rest.

3. I am terrible at getting to sleep and completely understand that if every time you get to sleep you're woken up it's like your body says "did this then" and stops letting you drop off, it's awful. I have found listening to audio books/podcasts the only thing that helps so might be worth a try. If you don't sleep you are at least resting with your mind focussed on something else.

4. you said baby naps in the pram? I would use that. Everyday after lunch put baby in the pram and go for a walk to force the nap. Wrap him up warm. Will he stay asleep without the buggy moving? I would wait till he's asleep then come home and leave him asleep in the garden. Set yourself up somewhere you can see him and have a cup of tea and a rest. Don't do housework. If you can get a cup of tea and a rest every day you will feel a lot better.

5. do you have any help? Can your DM/MIL come over for an afternoon or two a week to give you a break? Get them to take him for a walk? What are you doing about childcare when you return to work? Can you start putting him into childcare for a few sessions a week now to give you some space?

6. I don't think you need to stop bf (and that actually might not make things better and take away something that calms baby) but will baby take a bottle at all? Could you work on introducing 1 bottle at least of formula/ebm per day so that you can actually have a whole day off if you need to?

7. definitely up daytime calories. Lots of butter, oil, full fat versions of everything. Worth a try!

Honestly OP I didn't think I would survive DS1 but I did (he's now 3.5 and now generally sleeps through bar illness, bad dreams etc!) DS2 is a pretty shit sleeper too but this time round I've found it easier to cope with because I know it will end and I put the coping mechanisms in place from the start.

It will get better, this too shall pass.

I think if you can afford it this is exactly the situation a sleep consultant is for - when you're so exhausted that you just need someone to tell you what to do and hold your hand while they do it. People will tell you that they won't tell you anything you can't get out of a book, which misses the point - it isn't really the knowledge you need, it's the emotional support.

I wish people wouldn't say that cosleeping is some sort of magic solution. It doesn't work for everyone, OP has said it doesn't work for her.

I have a horrendous sleeper too and bedtime is a trauma - we have 3 hours of hysterics. OP it's just the absolute worst and you have my every sympathy.

Cosleeping makes zero difference to us I still have a screaming, clambering around baby

I really hope it gets better for you x

Mine was a horrible sleeper of the kind you describe, and I was half bonkers by the time she was the age of your baby. In the end, co-sleeping was the only thing that sort of worked for us (with her attached to me and snacking every hour or so), but you say you tried it and it's not a solution for you. The first nap in her life of >45 minutes was at 8 months old, I distinctly remember that. The short naps we managed were either on us or literally running with the stroller, walking would not get her to sleep.

Go to your GP. Maternal depression and suicidal thoughts are serious! You might get a prescription of the sort a PP mentioned. Because of the sleep issues, I was sure something was wrong with my baby, and positive something was wrong with me. But it was all temporary.

What you have to realize that none of this is your fault. Right now, you need to take care of yourself first and find a way to get some sleep. Even one night of uninterrupted sleep will do you good. If you need to, leave the baby with your partner (they'll both survive) and go sleep somewhere else, outside of your home.

Mine first slept through at 17 months. By that time, she had been in her own cot for a while. She still wasn't great until 30 months, but since then, she's been a great sleeper - no night wakings, no nightmares. She's now 11 and has always been on the lower end of hours of sleep per day, but they are completely problem-free and uninterrupted. I am the opposite; as an adult, I would prefer 9 hours a day if I could, I do ok on 7-8.

This was us too OP. But things are getting better.

Turns out my daughter had a dairy and soya allergy and the reason she’d wake every 20 minutes screaming is because she was in pain. With some dietary changes, she improved a lot. We also saw a cranial osteopath and she was fab. Said my daughter had a tight head and shoulder from a quick birth. Is this something you could try?

Thank you so so much for the kind and thoughtful replies. I’m a ten year plus lurker on mumsnet and have often seen the kindness of posters but it is something else to be the recipient! Thank you.

I’m still on the first page (my reading speed isn’t what it was...), but to answer some questions so far (sorry if I’ve missed things):

• GreenGrove: HV has offered no advice about the sleeping (she just says babies sometimes sleep badly) but is advocating for me to go on antidepressants to cope. I’ve resisted this to date as I think it would be addressing the symptom (feeling shit through lack of sleep) not the cause (lack of sleep), but appreciate the time may now have come to revisit this given the very dark nights.

The GP said to stop breastfeeding, sleeptrain and then I can have a week’s worth of sleeping pills. If no improvement to mood in a week of sleep, I then have antidepressants (though he thought I would likely be ok with sleep). Obviously the stopping bf etc is easier said than done... he didn’t want to prescribe anything while bf (though I did think some antidepressants could be had while bf. But maybe not ideal? Don’t know.)

• Foxglove85: yes, I’ve read about high needs babies and mine ticks every box! Sometimes I find this reassuring, although I also have a friend who is quite knowledgable about babies and who says no such thing, babies only fuss due to underlying reason/unmet need/silent reflux etc, which sets me off on hours of googling about underlying issues which baby might have...

I’ve been down some rabbit holes with this but think weaning has ruled out allergies (no reaction to dairy etc etc). That I think leaves silent reflux as another obvious culprit. I did go through a stage of thinking he had it as a baby as he would only sleep on me, but that (other than endless crying) was the main symptom and was solved by cosleeping, and now he has no symptoms (other than the shit sleep). He’s a very cheerful baby these days and doesn’t cry anymore in the day unless I’m leaving him/trying to get him to sleep in his cot...

• Cuckoo: yes we coslept for the first 7 months. When he hit 4 months he started feeding on and off all night to stay asleep and neither of us slept much by the end - he was dozing and then shallowly latching himself off and on so repeatedly that my nipples were chapped and bleeding still at 6 months... and I couldn’t wean him at all, I suspect as he was having so much milk overnight.

• wireless: thank you, I can talk to my husband and he is sympathetic but wants to fix everything and is stumped about what to do. He also struggles to help at night as baby cries more if he goes in to comfort than if he is left by himself (I guess as he realises I’m not going in with milk).

• Elusive: agree, I wonder if it’s an age thing at the moment and I’ve got to wait it out

• Igottastartthinkingbee: I agree, he needs more calories in the day I think. He was really slow to wean and still largely picks at things. I try to make very delicious buttery etc things but could probably do more

• SinkGirl: he knows the theory of drinking from a sippy cup, but has never drunk from a bottle or cup in any volume. I guess he would if he had to

• Soontobe60: yes, I’m doing all the nighttimes as he reacts so badly to my husband going in. He’s ok with my husband in the day but not anyone else. Eg he sees MIL a couple of days a week (has done since birth) but still screams if left with her. I’m not sure how to tackle this so we’ve just been trying lots of peekaboo and little periods of being left with others. Obviously going back to work is going to bring this to a head and I’m really worried about how traumatic it’s going to be

• Sipperskipper: I’d consider stopping bf but worried (a) that my only failsafe way of comforting baby/getting him to sleep is gone; and (b) that nutritionally he would suffer as not eating enough solids. I’d be happy to nightwean in theory but weedy/guilty in practice

• Upalln1ght/UnderneathTheMangoTree: I have quite good emotional support (people to vent to) but limited practical support due to separation anxiety. I suppose I could just up and leave him for a night with my husband and he’d survive, but it wouldn’t be much fun. I will consider doing this though to get myself a night of sleep, as I do agree with all the posters who’ve said that a stretch would change my perspective.

Thank you everyone again - will keep reading.

There are antidepressants that you can take while bf. I don't think it's necessary to stop bf, all you need to do is night wean, you can keep on bf during the day. I did this with both DC and in both cases it improved sleep massively.

What kind of childcare do you have in place for when you go back to work?

It definitely won't be pleasant leaving him to someone else during the night, but if you are having suicidal thoughts due to sleep deprivation then you are no longer coping, and you should not be exposed to a situation you cannot cope with.
A suicidal mum should be putting her own needs above those of her baby (not forever, just as long as necessary).

@tftr I think unless people have cared for a high needs baby it’s likely they’ll ‘poo poo’ the theory, because it gets them feeling defensive at the supposed accusation that their babies were ‘low needs’. I truly believe it’s a thing where some babies are reliant on physical contact and motion in order to sleep/be happy. If you get comfort from it then go with it

@tftr I agree with @foxglove85 (it won’t let me tag for some reason)! My boy is 9 months and sleeps well but despite all of his needs being met in the daytime and evening he is still fussy / twisty / needs entertaining/ nothing interests him for more than 5 mins. I know there is absolutely nothing wrong with him. It’s just the way he is and a running joke in my family, which also has a baby in it a month younger who will play in his jumperoo for half an hour and play with toys in his own and the like with no fuss. It definitely is a thing.
Anyway I just wanted to say that it really isn’t you and you’re doing a wonderful job.
I’m no expert on baby sleep but in your position I think I’d consider a sleep consultant.

Oh it did let me tag!

Split the night in half with your partner and take a shift each. You go to baby between 6pm and midnight and DH from 12-6am. That way you can get some uninterrupted sleep. Put some ear plugs in and know that whilst your baby prefers you to go to him rather than DH he is crying out of annoyance rather than genuine upset. He is with a caregiver and can be offered milk/water from a cup or bottle so Isn’t going to starve and no harm will come to him. He will probably scream blue murder for a while, but your mental health needs to be a priority at the minute.

My DS was very similar, woke every 90 minutes and I could never sleep due to anxiety over having no sleep. Me and DH had to take shifts and within 2/3 days DS started sleeping longer stretches once he knew mummy and boob weren’t on tap all night anymore.

Leave him with your husband and go and sleep in a hotel. Get sleeping aid off GP and have a proper deep sleep.
Buy a new cot new bedding and re position his cot
Pay for a night nurse for one month and get her to do it. do not tend to him.
Why is he crying is he frightened?
Controversial but I'll suggest it. Stop breast feeding him. He is dependent on you for everything which is both lovely but also a total fucking drain.
My heart is breaking for you. How awful

Also is he too cold at night what temperature is your house

Please fix this and urgently. I have been where you are. Someone needs to come and take over for a week
And yes, I needed sleeping tablets. Am so glad I stopped breastfeeding and took them. I nearly ended up being a psychiatric in patient the sleep deprivation broke me so much.

You have not done any thing wrong. Some babies just won't sleep.

My daughter was a terrible sleeper for the first couple of years and then suddenly started sleeping solidly. It will end. One day you will be dragging the covers off to get them to school on time. But right now you need support and sleep. Whatever it takes to get it.

And obviously please call a friend or family member or the Samaritans if you start to feel unsafe. Lots of people have been there, it will get better I promise

This sounds very similar to our situation with DS1, five years ago.

What worked for us -

• initially, I left him with DH overnight with a bottle of expressed milk. I went right out the house and went to stay with kind friends. Not just once but on several nights, must have been about 10 in total (not consecutive). I hated leaving DS, who howled, but I was at breaking point by this stage. DS screamed a lot at DH but he did take the bottle.

Re insomnia - I had this from a few weeks postnatal and it made all DS' sleep problems massively harder to cope with. Try asking your GP for low dose Amitriptyline. Will help you sleep but fine with BFing. It's an older style antidepressant.

From 11 months or so we used a sleep consultant. I'd do this if you can afford. You're too tired at the moment to be able to make a plan and stick with it.

With the help of the sleep consultant we night weaned. Pushed first night feed later and later and sent DH in for all other wake ups. Again, a lot of howling to start with. But it worked. DS' stretches of sleep rapidly lengthened and he actually slept through occasionally by his 1st birthday.

It was horrendous but we survived!! He's now 5 and sleeps through every night, albeit with a late bedtime and a fairly early start. We've even gone on to have two more DC.

Hope that helps - do PM me if you want.

If you are at the point of feeling suicidal then your husband needs to suck it up for 1 solid night a week at least!! I mean this in the kindest way possible but please don't be a martyr to your baby. There are capable adults available. Happy mummy happy baby. Look after yourself. You matter and you need to be functioning!

It’s the child not the parent! You haven’t done anything wrong. The only way I was able to get enough sleep is by taking my baby to bed in the afternoon and co sleeping during his nap. That gave me two hours in the afternoon to top up my night time sleep. Unfortunately he’s now two and still stays awake till 11pm then wakes up 2-3 times during the night. He just isn’t a good sleeper. I went though periods of anger and distress because everyone else’s child seems to sleep, but in the end I just gave up and resigned myself to not sleeping or having any free time in the evening. Having zero expectations is really helpful in terms of being able to cope.

You've received some lovely advice and replies already and I don't have anything useful to add on that front. But I just wanted to provide some solidarity - I have a 9 month old who also is a terrible sleeper. It is an absolute killer for mental health. The one thing keeping me remotely sane is that my husband takes him after he wakes for the day between 4 and 5 to give me a few hours uninterrupted sleep. If he decides to scream for hours, DH just takes him out. I wouldn't function without it.

OP we have been there so you have my sympathies. It sounds like the insomnia, low mood, suicidal thoughts are all symptoms of postnatal depression/anxiety and this may have also started prenatally. Massively exacerbated by sleep deprivation. I had PND, had a non sleeping, high crying, reflux baby. I got to the point where I didn't want my child near me, would cry at the thought of having to be up, get anxious about bed time s as new neither of us were going to sleep. His cry would cut through me.....but I carried on as you are because that's just what you do. I wasn't breastfeeding though. In the end I spoke to my HV who spoke to my GP and I was started on antidepressants. That plus my husband stepping up and luckily my mum visited (we have no family where we live) and gave me a proper break. I still did things with him but got early nights and lie ins, after a few weeks this really helped my anxiety and the horrible thoughts enough to pull myself round to keep going. It is exceptionally hard though but you can and will do it. My child is now just over two and some nights sleeps through and some nights wakes up once but do you know what that's fine with me as it's a world away from before. He was late to wean (well later than friends babies) and loved milk, no amount of controlled crying, sleep solutions, night weaning, stopping this or starting that made a joy of difference - he just wasn't developmentally ready. Also you don't have the mental resilience at the moment to even think about anything like that, you need to look after you right now. Honestly your baby will be fine.
As for going back to work, we found a childminder who was lovely with my child and was more than happy to deal with his reflux/allergies/clingyness and he quickly formed a lovely bond with her and in 18months we've had maybe once or twice where he's ceued, otherwise he waltzes in without a goodbye!! Worth considering if his personality suits 1:1 at this age. It is definately worth considering the reflux/allergies though as we didn't find out my child had cmpi and soy allergies until 12months and he was a much happier child when it was eliminated.
Sorry long post but in short you will get there, it will get better, sending hugs xxx

If you can afford it. I'd pay. Now.

Pay for someone to look after him at night : there are options for nighttime sleep helpers and nannies etc.

I took Ds2 to a creche at the gym and a instead of exercising, I fell asleep on one of the sunbeds by the sauna!

I've got my mum to come and help for a couple of days, just so I could sleep.

I would pay and get him settled with a childminder sooner rather than later.

Even despite his attachment & clinginess, get her to deal with it!! Source it out!!

all these things cost money, and we didn't have a lot, But I would've paid anything for help, so did!

You are not a bad mum - your a great mum!for writing this post , your concern and love for him shows you are a bloody great mum! Do not forget that. I hope he settles down for you soon xx