4 year old pretend nightmares waking every night - solutions please!?

[Tiredmummy2019]

HI My 4 year old has slept brilliantly since 4.5months but every since the conclusion of preschool and preparing for primary school, the nightmares began. At first I would simply walk her back to bed quick cuddle then leave very boring very quiet, then the wakings became more frequent and after the first wakeup I would gradually get more and more annoyed and yes would end up acing cross even shouting...the problem is she falls back to sleep no problem but I don't and it sets us up for a really bad day of me being tired grumpy and taking it out on her. We then noticed she was creating pretend nightmares and she even admitted it was just so she could get a cuddle - well that one threw me! How do you handle that? We've tried taking away daytime privileges, controlled crying after telling her to go back to bed and more reecently I get so worked up by the third wakeup I just start shouting. I know it's all bad for sleep anxiety but Im only human and her nightly wakings are having an impact on my being a good Mother during the day time. Now we hardly ever play energetic games like tig/hide and seek and sporadically manage a game of footie when I'm feeling a bit more myself but I've tried reasoning with her, explaining all this but naturally at 4 she doesnt understand. I even followed another parents suggestion of waiting til she's back asleep then wake her up, get her to sit quietly on sofa while I read a book, no tv, no talking no attention and after 20mins of discussing things with tears streaming down my face sent her back to bed but it only worked for a day or so...theres plenty more stories but I think Ive said enough already...the thing is when I return to bed myself I have real issues getting back to sleep - fast heartbeat, hunger, frustration anger all builds up and I either end up crying to sleep or getting up for the day (which is worse of course) - please help - turning old before my time and we only have one child - I really need my sleep back!

Your daughter is reaching out for some love and comfort (anxious about "big" school?) and you're shouting at her in return. This is perpetuating the problem.

Just love her. Let her in bed with you. Go and get into bed with her.

Your anger and inability to cope with disturbed sleep seem extreme

^^This, I agree. They are little for a fleeting moment. If she feels she needs the additional comfort give it to her.

thanks for your replies, the thing is in the light of day I agree with you but when Ive just been woken up my rational brain hasnt kicked in and all I see is struggling to sleep after tending to her, being tired the next day and taking it out on her due to tiredness...the thing is I tried the comforting mummy and it seemed to develop the habit further hence why she admitted to waking me for a cuddle. I can manage with anything during the day if Im well rested but she just doesnt seem to understand the impact of her wakings on my sleep...I know that sounds selfish and half of my tears are due to me feeling guilty at what I say or do when I'm tired and even now the tears are starting at feeling horrible but I can't switch it off when Im 'in the moment'. My OH and I have discussed the sleeping in our bed idea but Im such a light sleeper that I dont think it would work. Thins is he was used to this as a child I wasnt, I was led back to bed and had a fairly strict upbringing but my OH didnt so we do diasgree on this sometimes....I do feel bad sometimes but now I struggle to know whether to believe her or not as her nightmares dont appear to be that distressing for her but the hug I get says it all...The thing is which is worse, give in at nighttimes and comfort / do whatever she wants and then act crappy during the day as a tired stressed out parent or controlled crying/ignore her at nighttime then have a happy mummy and daughter during the daytime...?

Something is waking her in the night, whether it's a nightmare, anxiety or whatever. She's not just waking up to have a cuddle. The wanting a cuddle is the result, not the cause. She won't understand the implications of waking you up, she's 4. All she knows is that, for whatever reason, in the darkness at 2am, she wants her mum.

Can you have a chat with her to try and see what it is that may be worrying her? What may help? (extra night light, monster spray, checking on her and extra cuddle whilst she's asleep to "top up the cuddles" until morning etc.) and apologise and try and explain (in 4 year old terms!) that Mummy gets a but grumpy when she's tired. Obviously this depends on whether she's a young or old 4 and her understanding.

Could your partner get go and see to her instead of you? Wonder whether that may break the cycle a bit.

I'm similar to you with regards to struggling to get back to sleep when disturbed. My DS (although much younger than your DD) had a very disturbed night last night. I had to get up 4 times between 10pm-4:30am to resettle him, then he had a bottle at 4:30 and didn't go back down until 5:30am. In my head, I just think that he's little and he wants the comfort of his mum. All too soon, he won't be wanting the sleepy cuddles, the hand holds and the pat on the head (seriously, 4 times just to pat him on the flipping head!), so I'm just making the most of it now whilst he still does (and before he becomes a teenager and hates me!)

She may not be having nightmares, but something is waking her. She might be saying nightmares as she can’t explain anxiety or just suddenly waking and being scared.

I can’t believe you woke her to punish her! That has to be one of the cruelest ways of dealing with night waking I have ever come across. Please don’t do that again, it will only make it worse.

I think looking into ways of dealing with your anger and frustration should be the starting point. That way you’ll be able to fall asleep quickly too.

Also could you set up a little bed in the floor of your room and say to her if she wakes up she can come and get in it without waking you?

Hi thanks for the response, I talked with my DH this morning and he has agreed to give it a go. The problem is Im a bit of a control freak so find it harder for someone else to deal with an issue when I believe it should be me but at the same time I know when to admit defeat and accept that the resulting grumpiness and tension thats reflecting in my words and actions with her are not helping so gonna try for the next week or so with my partner getting up. Its hard though cos he already gets up early for work and I dont work at the moment but he can fall asleep quickly, and can survive on much less sleep than me so its worth a shot.he won't get shouty or annoyed but I will have to work on staying in bed while he goes through and focus on getting back to sleep (much easier if you stay in bed and dont get hit with the emotional aspect of wakeups!) so fx this works!

We have talked today about her nightmares, even had the bright idea (surprising considering lack of sleep) of her drawing a picture of what she sees in her nightmares...common themes - spiders biting her, monsters pinching her food. Thought we could then try and make the pictures look silly and by bringing them to life in daytime hopefully help her at nighttime. Its a start...

Yes the sleep issues are a real bug bear of mine and as you say she doesnt understand the impact of her wakings although she is an older 4 as in she's switched on with a lot of things and understands a lot for her age.

Ive heard a few ppl using your suggestions about monster spray etc but interesting one you mention about a top up cuddle when asleep - Id have to be brave to do that one and not sure it would help as would wake her up...

The anxity part seems most likely couples with an awareness of scary things (I think I can link the spider one to showing her a video of the spider ride at legoland - where we're going on holiday in two weeks, and straightaway that night it was scary spider nightmares...). The monster one is interesting as at first its a fluffy purple monster cuddling her and sharing snacks with her but then I think the monster turns nasty and steals her food...(yes Ive had the 'No, don't take my cake...' nightmare before) but those are definately real nightmares, when I get woken now all I hear is 'Ive had a real nightmare mummy' and when I go through she's barely crying just reaching for a cuddle hence the pretend nightmare phase...But back to the anxiety thing its likely cos at the same time as the nightmares appeared she acted out massively so in one week, to the point where I wondered where my sweet well behaved girl had gone, tantrums, talking back, hitting etc etc...I did read that those signs couples wirth nightmares means anxiety but she generally settles fine for bed and sleeps well, its just the wakeups and sometimes I dont think she knows why she has woken up...

Hi wildboar thanks for your response, I think you're right anxiety of being scared is more likely than nightmare,

Yes the ideal is very far fetched but I was at my wits end and for two nights it worked - no wakeups! But then it returned again hence not solving the problem...hey Ive tried all the typical methods and nothings worked...you cant blame me for trying as she does respond to situations empathetically and this was one way of making her understand what tiredness feels like...but it didnt work in the long run so won't use it again...Im just guessing her with trial and error...theres no rulebook and I thought wakeups when she was a baby was hard but this is soo much harder...

How to deal with anger and frustration at 3am when you cant get back to sleep...hmmm...wish there was an answer for that one...

As far as bed in our room no way, that would create a sleeping with parents crutch and I always swore Id never do that as my parents didnt and I learnt to sleep in my own bed...I think that would create a problem not solve it...

This is what I would do-
I would set up a bed on the floor of her room and return her to bed and then sleep on the floor.

That way you're getting sleep and she's getting comfort but when she no longer needs it you don't have another habit to break where she won't sleep in her own bed.

She probably doesn't know why she's woken either to be honest!

Try the "top up cuddle" to keep her cuddles full until morning. Tell her that you'll come and tuck her in, check on her and tell any bad dreams to to away (dream catcher could be a good idea too? A make-your-own kit could keep her occupied for a bit. Find some magic spell poem or something online) and make sure she's safe when you come up to bed. You don't actually give her a massive bear hug, it's more the thought that you will that may help her.

Agree with other posters - the fact that she's not really having nightmares and sometimes doesn't even know why she has woken up doesn't really matter. She's just little and worried and wants a cuddle. It reminds me of the summer before starting school when my DD who had been reliably toilet trained for years suddenly began having lots of accidents - I really wasn't expecting that!

So I would focus less on why is it happening and more on how best to deal with it. Your DH going in is a really good idea. Also (I know this is hard) I think you need to try and just accept it and get less annoyed as I'm sure you feeling so wound up is stopping you falling back to sleep.

Remember it's a phase and it won't last forever.

Monster spray (lavender water in a labelled spray bottle) before sleep and again if she wakes in the night.

Visualisation before sleep is brilliant - I did it for me for months when medication I was on was giving me nightmares every single night (proper wake up sweating, shaking and screaming ones - I was exhausted the entire time). Talk to her about her favourite beautiful place or an imaginary one, help her picture it in her mind with her eyes closed. It's a bit like hypnosis - speak in a slow, calm voice, maybe stroke her hair etc as you describe the beautiful park / beach etc - it's a lovely sunny day, blue skies, warm sand, lots of other children to play with, it's a beautiful quiet place with mum and dad on their towels just a little distance away so she can call them or get them to play games with her, look at the lovely bike for her to ride, isn't it a pretty bike.... Lots of nice things to plant in her head for her to dream about. she doesn't talk - you do that!

As far as bed in our room no way, that would create a sleeping with parents crutch and I always swore Id never do that as my parents didnt and I learnt to sleep in my own bed...I think that would create a problem not solve it

How many teenagers do you know who still sleep with their parents?

She's 4, she's about to go through a big and scary change (school), let her be little.

Wait, that's a song, let me find it. It is a good principle to follow
m.youtube.com/watch?v=jb1kyOeFHLk

I doubt she does know why she’s woken up. I think she’ll need reassurance and kindness to get her through this phase. She’s only 4 and probably anxious about starting school. Parenting comes with a certain amount of sleep deprivation and it sounds like you’ve been lucky up to this point.

I know how you feel about getting back to sleep. I’ve got the Calm app on my phone and would really recommend. It has a getting back to sleep meditation on it which has helped me so much (I have a frequent waking 8 month old and a toddler!)

How on Earth did you manage the newborn stage then? Serious question.

If you coped ok with the baby stage then you need to change your attitude back to how you felt almost 4 years ago. Your poor daughter needs you just as much now for comfort as she did then. She hasn't just got to 4 years old and can totally take care of herself while you get a great nights sleep.

This awful attitude is just crazy to me. My youngest two are (almost) 4 and just turned 2. My 4 year old still occasionally wakes in the night and the 2 year old only occasionally sleeps through. I just can't imagine shouting at them and not being able to play with them through the day. You need to get a grip and stop stropping around like a sulky teenager.

Too much emotion OP! You are extremely stressed out about this and exaggerating everything. Let her co-sleep. If you can't sleep with her in the bed go to her room and let her sleep with your DH.

Our two year old has hardly ever slept through the night and I struggle to get back to sleep when woken. We drift between her sleeping in bed with OH and I sleep elsewhere or I bunk down on her bedroom floor holding her hand. Needs must. I can't worry about bad habits, I just do whatever gets the most people the most sleep!

Well you can work on your anger and frustration. You can’t put the whole solution on to changing her. Her behaviour is typical for her age.

A mattress on the floor in your room would only be used if she woke up. Not to fall asleep on in he first place. I’ve done it for my children and they’ve always gone back into their own beds once the phase is over. If you’re very against that, then what about a mattress in her room for you or your husband that you can fall asleep in from the start. If she starts to unsettle you can easily settle her back down before she wakes fully. Plus you are disturbed less.

I think the key thing here is that you think she can control this and this is making you angry with her. Try to shift your thought pattern to that of her needing you then it may help you. Like she needed you when she was a baby.

Your DD seems very anxious about starting a new school in September.

I think that rather than tackling the “waking” problem, you should try to tackle the root of her anxieties about starting school.

Could you take her uniform shopping?
Do you know an older child who is already at primary, who could talk to your DD about school and what he/she likes about it?
Can you walk/drive the route to the school a few times to get her used to it?
Could you actually go to the school, look through the gates and talk about the playground, entrance doors, etc.
Can you show your DD photos of the school on the schools website? They may also have nice smiley photos of the teachers.
Ask your DD about her worries and try to reassure her.

I think once the anxiety is lessened, you will find your DD will probably sleep a lot better.

Good luck OP.

Hi OP, you're obviously very stressed out by this and I hope your partner doing the wake-ups gets you some much needed rest. Just wanted to say my mum did the little 'make-shift bed' on the floor in her room when I was a child and I was a very good sleeper - I mainly used it as a toddler with early wake ups (I'd go and lie on the pillow in her room and go back to sleep without waking the household) and I went through a nightmare phase (as in, having bad nightmares) probably about the same age as your daughter and would go and sleep on it then. It was relatively short-lived according to my mum and after that I was absolutely fine sleeping on my own and have always loved bedtime! I think sometimes people are a bit too strict about not letting kids have comfort at night when really it's totally natural and doesn't mean she will still be climbing into your bed at 16yo. Maybe try to relax a bit about it and just offer that extra bit of support while she is struggling. I expect once she's settled at school and is feeling more secure this will all blow over anyway.

I wonder if this is reminding you of when you were little? Did you feel comforted or were your parents quite stern with you? I’m only asking because you mentioned them, and that you ‘learned to sleep in your own bed’. Feeling upset and stressed is understandable when you’re tired and your child won’t sleep, but you seem to be very distressed.

I would stop worrying about the illogical rules of where children "should" sleep and let her sleep in your bed. You say you're a light sleeper but this surely can't be worse than having to physically get up several times a night!

One she feels her needs have been met she'll probably only need to do this for a short time, she's only 4!

4 year olds seem so grown up but they're not. They are still tiny. Going to school is huge for them and a source of anxiety. There might also be a change after she starts. Give her cuddles, let her sleep with you (or you go in with her).

I think you need to give yourself a bit of a shake. Some kids are only starting to sleep through around 4 so if you've had 4 years of sleep then you are ahead of the game.

Take her in to your bed for a night to break the pattern and let her know you care, ensure she's getting lots of physical contact with you- hand holds, cuddles, spend a day with her.

She's so little and needs her parents.

Hi everyone thank you so much for all your comments and suggestions. I managed to take a nap to take the edge off the tiredness so feelin a bit better.

Dreamcatcher - good idea and she is very creative atm so will work on that, I've got one that she can decorate/make her own.

You're right talking about School good idea, I must admit Ive never asked if shes concerned/worrried about going - she tells me no but think its helped just talking about it.

I dont know if I was treated sternly as a child with sleep and hence why I have sleep issues never really asked but will do now! Calming music etc all sound great but would have to use earplugs so OH can sleep!

Actually letting her sleep in our room (in our bed or on mattress on floor) would be worse than getting up as would have longer to wait until can get back to sleep, mattress in her room, interesting idea but I also can't just sleep anywhere, it has to be just so whereas OH squeezed into her single bed with her and actually slept when she was ill once time.

Hoping when she starts school it will blow over but just need to survive til then lol...

When she was a tiny baby we at first took it in shifts 4hrs each and set alarms so we each got basic sleep from 9pm til 5am then later took it in turns seeing to her during the night in her own room but pretty quickly it became just me dealing with her cos thought that well, im awake anyway, I may as well...but when she was tiny I understood it more and was supportive and loving but for some reason I can't tell my sleepy irrational mind that this is normal too...however bad the attitude and emotion feel, I cant just switch it off! Sorry if that makes me a bad person but to my mind a well rested mummy and child means happy mummy and child during the day whereas I struggle if im tired during the daytime. Yawn...only another 5 weeks til she starts school but if this sleep pattern keeps up will be wishing it over rather than enjoying the time with her, which I badly want to be able to do....

Try your local library. I've seen lots of books about anxiety, fear and starting school that are age appropriate.