HV said I’m doing my child a disservice if I don’t let him cry

[CosmicComet]

I told the HV that DS doesn’t sleep, and said I’m feeling down because I want my evenings back and to sleep at night. She suggested controlled crying, or lying him down repeatedly without making eye contact until he gives up.

I said it seems cruel not to comfort a crying baby. If he was an adult who was distressed it would be considered terrible to avoid eye contact and let him cry and repeatedly force him to lie down. And I’m not convinced he’d stop being distressed or needing me - he’d just stop crying out because I wasn’t responding.

The HV said sleeping is a life skill that you have to teach your child, like riding a bike. It will benefit him in the long run and be detrimental if I fail go teach him. He won’t just start sleeping of his own accord, and the older he gets the worse it will be because he’ll be able to shout for me or get out of bed and come downstairs. She said if I don’t leave him to cry I’m creating a rod for my own back. If I ever want to sleep and have time for my relationship then I need to leave DS to cry.

It just seems very harsh. I do want to spend time with DH and sleep at night. But I don’t want my baby to be distressed. I don’t think it’s fair to say that my misery is my own fault if I don’t leave my child to cry. But on the other hand I don’t have any other ideas for how to make him sleep? And I’m worried that the HV was right and I’m a bad parent if I don’t let him cry because I’m not teaching him to sleep.

Imo ultimately you have a responsibility to your marriage as well as your dc.
My ds was in /out of hospital for the first 9 months of his life. My gp talked me through getting him to sleep..
Third night he did.
Absolute minimum tears.
Ask for help.
And try and take the advice that seems would suit your baby /family.
Don't try anything you aren't comfortable trying. It won't work!

I daren’t leave him on the mattress in case he wakes up and pulls the cable on the nightlight, or pulls his play tent over on himself, or climbs into his toy storage sack, or climbs on the chair and falls off, etc.

Agree with others that one is a good age to do some sort of sleep training. Hate that phrase. There are gentle methods. I did gradual retreat (or disappearing chair method) with my DD at 1 year old and it honestly felt like I was teaching her how to fall asleep by herself.

Agree with PPs that you can tell the difference between their cries / shouts. I would never leave my dd to cry if she was upset or distressed.

Tonight she cried for about 20 seconds when she was trying to get to sleep. I can read her so well, I can tell she was just frustrated because she was tired and wanted to already be asleep! I can’t fix that for her . But she fixed it herself and lay down and has been peacefully sleeping since.

Also I found 1 was a good age because they can understand you very well. I explained to dd very very clearly that tonight she was going to go to sleep in her cot, but mummy would be sitting right next to the cot and I wouldn’t leave her until she was asleep. It was tough, she was confused at the new way of doing things but I constantly reassured her and comforted her, kept saying “lie down darling, it’s time to sleep.”. She eventually did and it got easier and easier . Took weeeks and weeks if not months, but she was fine with the chair moving gradually further and further away, then out the door, then with the door closed but me still talking to her, then less talking, etc etc you get the idea until eventually it was the dream: story, kiss and hug goodnight, put her to bed, leave, she goes to sleep, DH and I have a few hours to ourselves. Honestly this method was not cruel in any way and I highly recommend it.

Just read that back, very garbeled and non sensical, sorry.

She was 1 when we started the above method, the last paragraph is describing what we did and how I explained it to her on the first night etc.

She is now 20 months

We co-slept till 10months and then she went on a double mattress in the floor in her own room. I always attended to her cries and she still slept through from about then anyway.

As other people have said it’s totally down to the temperament and personality of the baby as to what the response probably needs to be. The HVs advice is therefore unhelpful as it won’t suit everyone (and is outdated thinking now we have far more evidence about child development).

One thing I will say is that I was always quick to try and make the crying stop but a good cry before bed is the way babies let out their stresses of the day. I now ‘let’ her cry but am alway with her hugging her etc until she’s got it out her system :)

I also recommend Sarah Ockwell-Smith.

I did the same as @Magpiefeather and then when DD woke in the night I did the pick up/put down method. So picked her up to soothe but put her down to settle again. I didn't make much fuss in the night, very little eye contact or speaking, just made soothing shushing noises or hummed lullabies to soothe and reassure whilst firmly reinforcing its nighttime so sleeptime.

Then remove everything which would be unsafe for your baby to have your room. There are no need for toys in the bedroom anyway.

Just get a video monitor so you can see if he’s awake & causing mischief

I 100% agree with your health visitor.

My parents never taught me to sleep, there were no consequences for me getting up. I didn't sleep in my own bed until I was about 12. I didn't have a set bedtime. I was not a happy child, I was often grumpy and over tired. All the crap people spout about letting a child sleep in your bed to help them feel secure and how co-sleeping until the child is 8 is a great idea is utter bollocks. We were all exhausted. My parents were exhausted, I was exhausted. I had horrendous sleeping problems until I met my DH who got me into a routine

Now I have my own baby we have been very strict with sleeping. He is a great sleeper! And he is much happier for it. It is a life skill that babies need to learn.

You can still have a strict bedtime and no getting up before a certain time with cosleeping and no crying.

My parents did teach me good sleeping habits. It’s bern a life long battle and had a very negative effect on my life.

*didnt teach

My younger 2 kids sleep in my bed. They have a strict bedtime and a getting up time.
The toddler is going through a phase of waking for several hours in the middle of the night, but it's a phase that my other 2 have gone through and they now sleep through fine.

I just had to respond to this even though there have already been a lot of responses but it really annoys me how you get so many judgy comments about what you should and shouldn't do! Everyone is different and every baby is different. There are those that will do full on cry it out, some will do various controlled crying methods and some will sleep with their children until they are 12! I take it you asked for your HV advice? and she gave it to you. It's up to you as a parent to do what you think/are comfortable with. If you are going to cave at the first wimper your child makes then letting him cry is not for you and wont work any way. There are people on here that are telling you how unhealthy letting a baby cry to get to sleep with one person even saying it causes brain damage, but they will happily put their children in supposed danger by co sleeping with them which is not recommended as it's a risk factor for SIDS amongst other things. I'm not saying I'm against co sleeping but I wish people would stop saying how dangerous letting a baby cry is but encouraging something that has also been suggested is potentially dangerous. The bottom line is you are this child's parent and it is ultimately up to you to research and pick something that the whole family is comfortable with. ANYTHING else won't work! After trying many different things with my baby, 3 nights of full on cry it out worked. I am yet to know if this will have effected her life in 20 years time or 50 years or even next year but at the moment by baby is a happy and content little girl who sleeps 12 hours a night and knows she is loved. Babies cry, it's what they do, sleep IS a skill that has to be learnt and you have to teach it, you just have to choose your teaching style, good luck mamma x

I agree with the hv although I think it's easier to look at it as you teaching your child that it's ok to be by themselves. I don't think you can make anyone sleep but it's great to teach a child when they should be in their bed and that they have to be content to be there alone.

My ds (14 months) used to take ages to fall asleep, usually screaming and making a fuss as soon as I put him into his cot. He would then wake every 45 minutes - 90 minutes all night long. My evenings were spent going up and down stairs and coaxing him back to sleep. It was utterly draining as I couldn't socialise with anyone, couldn't go out for evening, and wasn't spending any decent time with my dh.

I was told to try controlled crying as it would sort the problem out quickly. However, when I attempted controlled crying with my ds I found that it made him angry and didn't really improve his sleep despite me being very strict with it.

Then I read a really good thread on here, all to do with gradual retreat, and I decided to give it a go. It was a slow process and you've got to be patient but my ds has gone from screaming as soon as I put him into his cot to falling asleep within ten seconds of his head touching the mattress. Bedtime is so easy now. It took maybe 2 weeks for him to fall asleep on his own with no crying or whimpering and not needing any intervention from me. This technique helped improve the first half of the night however the second half of the night was still fairly bad.

Other things I've done to improve his sleeping was to always give him his bottle of milk downstairs to break the association between sleep and sucking/milk. I also stopped feeding him when he woke in the night as I'd got into the bad habit of feeding him back to sleep as it was the quickest way to get him to go back off in the middle of the night. And the final thing I did was recommended to me by a lady I vaguely know who suggested entering his room just before his first awakening, doing it loudly enough to bring him out of deep sleep but not enough to wake him. I was dubious about this suggestion tbh but I did it for 3 or 4 nights and within a few days he managed to go from 3 wake ups between 11pm and 7am to sleeping a solid 12 hours.

In the past week he's slept through the night for 3 out of the last 6 nights. Before this week he'd never slept anything longer than 4 hours. Unfortunately he's now developed a cold which made last night a bit iffy but I'm hopeful we'll get it back on track again quickly and tonight already seems a lot better compared to last night.

Anyway, sorry for the essay. The long and the short of it is that there is nothing wrong with controlled crying if you feel comfortable doing it but if not then there are gentler ways to go about sleep training.

It's very difficult to make use of the advice you are offered when people insist on presenting opinions as though they were facts, and even harder when those opinions come from people in trusted professions such as your HV. I never had much time for mine because she thought (much like yours, by the sound of it) that her experience as a mother meant that she knew best for every baby under the sun. Not so. Your HV is talking utter shite. You do not need to leave your baby to cry if you don't want to. Not all parents do this and lots of us still manage to have time alone as a couple and spend evenings together.

Could you get a video monitor? We co-sleep in our bed with DD who is 2. Have done since she outgrew her Next2me. Once she is asleep, I can go downstairs and just have the little monitor screen on the arm of the sofa or whatever and keep an eye on her. If she wakes up, I can see straight away. Obviously you would need to remove any immediate hazards like the lamp (ideally you would properly baby proof the room).

@herbertdibdab can you share the link to the gradual retreat thread?

@HarrietM87 sorry I know you were asking herbertdibdab and it may be a different thread but this is the one that helped me:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/sleep/1394888-What-worked-for-us-Hope-this-helps?pg=1&order=

Yep that's the one, Magpie. It really helped a lot.

I would report the HV tbh 🤷‍♀️

Reporting the HV is completely unjustified. The OP asked for advice, the HV gave it, OP does’t have to follow it if she doesn't like it.
The child in question is 12 months old, not 12 weeks old! I don’t think what the HV suggested was bad advice (I might try it in OP’s shoes) but to each their own.

@Laureline she asked for advice and was told to do controlled crying. She said she didn’t want to go down that road and was told she was doing her child a disservice. How dare she say that?! Reportable in my eyes.

Oh gosh, a one year old! Listen to your HV. She has given you some very good (albeit old fashioned) advice.
Unless you want to be a Mumsnet matyr!

I think she has a point tbh. But then sleep evokes polarised opinions.

If you want things to get better then I suggest you do some kind of sleep training. There are lots of more gentle approaches than CC, none of them worked for us mind you. You might want to consider a sleep consultant.

I'm of the opinion that babies need to be taught how to sleep. But it's entirely up to you.