Do I have anything to lose from sleep training early?

[AllesAusLiebe]

Hi folks, has anyone attempted sleep training earlier than recommended? Did it work?

DS is 3 months and I’m at the end of my rope. He takes an eternity to settle, sometimes upwards of 2 1/2 hours and doesn’t stop crying when he’s picked up. He only stops crying when he’s able to look at things (lights, pictures on the wall etc), which leads me to believe that it’s not contact that he wants.

He’s a very cuddly little boy usually and loves contact, except when it’s time for sleep.

I’ve tried the baby whisperer EASY method, swaddling, white noise etc. He has fallen asleep in the sling before but even that takes a long time. I wonder whether he actually needs to learn to self settle and whether that would actually make him happier because even when he’s rocked to sleep he still screams and cries until he wears himself out.

Any thoughts?

I did a routine from about 6 weeks old. The night wakings were absolutely ridiculous and the crying was for absolutely no reason. By 8 weeks we had a happy content baby who slept 11pm-9am and ate every 3 hours on the dot at day time. Hardly ever cried as well unless he was ill because he never got to the point of being hungry/overtired etc. Worked out much better for me in terms of my health and sanity and made sure my baby wasn't absolutely heart broken and crying all day which IMO effects them a lot more than a routine will.

I know 99% of MN won't agree with me but at least I can look back at the newborn days and enjoy them instead of viewing them as stressful/draining and horrific.

OP just to let you know my baby was also one of those who would rather be left swaddled with a dummy in a dark and quiet room other wise I would rock him, sing, play music, do absolutely everything for hours and hours and he would just scream. I had health visitor actually tell me that was a good thing as he was still getting comfort from me while screaming his bald head off, not sure where she got that logic from

Might be hungry? Have you tried hungry baby milk?

Yes, under-tired ness is a thing! How are his naps? If he's napping too much in the day it may be messing up his night sleep.

We did

Awake at 7
Nap 9 - 10
Nap 12 - 2 (that long nap is very important!)
Nap 4 - 4.15/4.30 (ish)
Bed 2 hours after waking from the last nap.

To be honest, at that age we just let baby sleep on us downstairs until she was ready to go up though, rather than trying to settle her in a cot.

@WhatTheFuckRichard that’s exactly what I’m wrestling with. He’s miserable! Crying all day, not getting enough sleep, not in the mood for play because he’s too shattered. Did you follow gina ford or something similar to that?

@converseandjeans definitely not hungry. His hungry cries are even worse! I run around the house like a lunatic every time I suspect he’s hungry to avoid the agonising noise when he decides he can’t wait any longer!

@FestiveNut thanks that’s really helpful. His naps are a bit hit and miss but still every single one involves a ridiculous battle. It used to be the case that his first nap was pretty easy (put him in the moses basket with his dummy) but that’s all gone out of the window now.

Yeah we’ve done that too, but I’m not totally happy with him sleeping on us (it still also involves a fight to get him to sleep in the first place). I did it for the first couple of months and consequently got little to no sleep myself and I’m keen to break the cycle.

No fad baby book was followed. I just figured out what routine I needed that worked for our family. What time do you want to wake and go to bed? Will you be out until late or home early to do the bedtime routine? Are there any places you visit regularly at X time which you wouldn't be able to give a bottle? Work around all that. Anything you do in your life, think about the times and places and fit baby around it all. Don't fit your life around your baby.

I was happy to go to bed at 11 as we were usually out for meals/visiting family or just up late but as he got older I wanted my evenings back so I had a few more hours other than his naps to have me time. The 11pm bedtime has gradually gone to 7pm. I remember when he was 3 months old and I needed my evenings back so he then slept 9-9. At about 1yo I put it to 8-9 and now he doesn't nap in the day (2yo) he sleeps 7-9. Appointments could be scheduled to times where I knew he would have been fed and had a sleep so he would sit there happily and just stare at nothing. Nearly every single person we come across told me was was the happiest and most content child they had met and I genuinely put it all down to a brilliant routine.

@AllesAusLiebe if it's any consolation my baby is terrible for naps too! She's good at night but we always worked on a good nighttime routine as this was most important to us, and let the day go as it was and I've only in the last few weeks started on a bit of a daytime routine with naps.
But as a previous poster said, you need to work things out around your day as you don't want to be tied to the house if you have other things that you need to be doing.
I have started a bit of a 3 times a day routine but it's very hit and miss as to whether she has the right amount. She has her first nap 2 hours after waking and I try and time that with walking the dog, that way I know she'll sleep in the pram and it makes my life a little easier. For her, the first nap is the one that will determine how the day will go, they others aren't as big of a deal.
Also timing a nap for bottle time I find helps for her as it helps send her off, only if the dummy goes instantly after she's finished the bottle, made slightly difficult a few months ago as she didn't time her naps or bedtime at all with her bottles.

Honestly try not to stress too much, it will come you just need to work out what will work best for you and try and stick it out as best you can. Maybe work on either day time or nighttime one at a time to relieve some stress. All babies are different, and if something works then just go with it

Op I started off cosleeping and breast feeding until 5months. He then went into his own cot in his own room. Sleep trained by picking up, then patting, then shushing. First time didn't work. Prevailed second time as I was prepared. Did it over a weekend with nothing planned so I could catch up on sleep during the day. He's now coming up two and sleeps through 7-7. Odd occasion wakes up cause he can't find his dummy, but soon settles. Never slept in my bed since.

And still naps 2-4 hours during the day. I landed a good sleeper

Pupd doesn’t work for all. I think it works well of the child is waking from habit. Ours was waking and being frightened he was alone, so all the pupd/shhh pat/gradual retreat stuff just drive him into a frenzy and he never calmed down. It took me all night to calm him down after our first try at pupd and from then on he refused the cot entirely.

These methods can and do work, but they don’t work for everyone and for some they make things worse.

Before I had kids I’d have said that you just need to sleep train gently. Now I’m firmly of the ooonion that sleep is largely a Developmental skill.

In my experience of two kids most need something to soothe themselves. I reckon he’s trying to find his thumb or something to do repetitively to fall asleep (mine rubs a muslin over his eyes and has been doing so since tiny- he’s now 2). I would offer a dummy, a cloth, whatever. He needs a comfort object I reckon.

Ah I see he does have a dummy. So will he not suck on it or will he throw it out and scream?

A comfort object is a great idea, DS has a comforter that I wore in my bra for a day so it smelt like me (only had to do this once). He rubs it all over his face to help him sleep each night. At 8 months he still has it and I'm afraid to wash it in case I ruin his smell

Also if he has a dummy we found it became a hinderance as he was pulling it out and couldn't put it back in. He was waking us about 10 times a night crying for us to put it back in. One day I binned every single one of them and we went cold turkey. It took 2 naps to get rid of it and now he sucks his thumb which thankfully he can't loose and easily puts in his mouth himself. Apparently if you want to get rid of the dummy you need to do it before 4 months, after that it can be harder to get rid of it (we did it at 5 months and we're very lucky he was ok with it). A dummy reduces the risks of SIDS so it's a personal choice to get rid of them.

Thanks for all the replies. Currently fighting yet another sleep battle with dh rocking DS to sleep in the dark in the kitchen. The screaming has gone on for at least 20 minutes already and he’s starting to lose patience which probably means I’ll have to take over.

@KoshaMangsho yeah I definitely think he’s trying to soothe himself already. He keeps putting his hand in his mouth and I’m pretty sure that he’ll be sucking his thumb as soon as he’s figured it out. I’ll try a little blanket or muslin though thanks for the tip!

Sometimes the dummy works and other times he throws his head around and I keep it in place. That seems to piss him off even more.

Screaming for half an hour continuously can’t be good for him, surely?

I’m definitely going to work on a routine.

May be a long shot, but have you tried a different shape of dummy? My baby will only use a cherry top dummy, any other shape she won't have at all. Even down to when I opened a new pack, they weren't as soft as they ones she'd been using so having to use the old ones for night time until the new ones soften up.
I had no idea they even came in different shapes and sizes, was purely luck that I'd been bought some and tried them!

@0310Star ah there’s something I hadn’t thought of! It does seem to fall out of his mouth pretty easily so I’ll try a different kind.

Eventually did pick up put down and after the 10th attempt he accepted being put in his basket. Still not asleep but he’s quiet and I’ll take that for now after the evening we’ve had.

To those who’ve successfully managed pupd, did you stay with your child after for reassurance or leave them to it?

Thanks again.

Just take a step back, your doing a great job & the best you know how in hard circumstances.

It sounds to me as if your baby may have colic, repetitive inconsolable crying at around the same time every night for around the same length of time. It is absolutely nothing you are doing wrong or havn't tried (been there, literally got every gizmo!) and no amount of sleep training will help improve it - evidence tells us that sleep training at this young age can be detrimental to your little ones psychological health so personally I wouldn't go down that route just yet.

There are a few things I would rule out first that may contribute to the crying such as reflux (any pattern of crying after feeds?back arching?screaming type cry after feeds?lots of spit up?) And cows milk protein allergy (loose foul smelling poos?eczema?mucus or blood streaked poos?). These are the most common. If your happy your baby is fit and well, gaining weight and developing then it may be colic - it can persist past 12 weeks for some babies.

My tips on surviving colic: get some wireless headphones, stick the tv on and just hold your baby even if they are crying, the headphones help to drown the cries out.

• take it in turns to do half the night each if possible, this way you both get some rest. The other one stick some good ear plugs in.

• maintain 'good' sleep habits like darkened room, quiet/white noise etc but dont be a slave to it, at this age you are not going to spoil your babies sleep ha its, most still dont get the whole day night thing.

• try not to obsess over routine, sleep, what they aren't doing, how long they are awake for......the list goes on. You have never done this before and WILL learn as you gain experience and so will your little one. For now, just try and go with the flow if you can and get as much help as you can or are offered.

• you will get through this nightmare and it wont be too long.

I hope that helps x

(My son had colic 7pm - 11pm for the first 4.5months, he hated being rocked and was much more settled left alone and was pretty miserable, and so were me and his father! he also had reflux and CMPI however this wasnt diagnosed until later. I have been where you are, my son is now 15m and I look back and shudder at those tines but it does pass).

@SlB09 that's a very valid point! My baby had a bit of colic, thankfully it only lasted a few weeks but we found infacol to really help, so could be worth a try?

You have nothing to loose by trying, if it doesn't work after one week of use then its unlikely to be of benefit x

I think @SIB09’s take is what I’ve found. In my experience, my baby just wasn’t developmentally ready to sleep in any different way then he slept. Until he was about 5/6 months a routine was just window dressing. When he was about 9 months I could settle him sometimes in his cot. It doesn’t hurt to try alternative settling methods or routine but I do think they’re more about helping us to cope and don’t really have that much impact.

Just to play devils advocate actually yes you can have something to lose by trying. Ds1 was so upset by it that he refused to go into the cot at all. It took me six weeks to get him in it at all , even just sitting in it , and he never settled in it again. We didn’t even do any of the less gentle methods - we tried pupd and a couple of nights of controlled crying. Absolute disaster.