Do I have anything to lose from sleep training early?

[AllesAusLiebe]

Hi folks, has anyone attempted sleep training earlier than recommended? Did it work?

DS is 3 months and I’m at the end of my rope. He takes an eternity to settle, sometimes upwards of 2 1/2 hours and doesn’t stop crying when he’s picked up. He only stops crying when he’s able to look at things (lights, pictures on the wall etc), which leads me to believe that it’s not contact that he wants.

He’s a very cuddly little boy usually and loves contact, except when it’s time for sleep.

I’ve tried the baby whisperer EASY method, swaddling, white noise etc. He has fallen asleep in the sling before but even that takes a long time. I wonder whether he actually needs to learn to self settle and whether that would actually make him happier because even when he’s rocked to sleep he still screams and cries until he wears himself out.

Any thoughts?

Op all babies are different and you know yours best. Remember guidelines are just a guide - not the law! Some babies are definitely ready to self settle before others.

You say he likes looking at things so one of those projector things that put a pattern on the wall or ceiling might help. Leave him for 5 minutes and see how he gets on.

I sleep trained both mine about 3 months. I have no regrets.

The 2-3 hours of being unsettled just before bedtime is exactly the same as my 7 week old but she’s breastfed and cluster feeds through this time, I can get a short break if DH holds her and is moving but that’s all. She then sleeps a stretch of 4-5 hours, which I think is awesome for her age so I guess she’s stocking up. During the day she actually does sometimes settle herself if something wakes her when she’s napping - I thought this was a myth as my first would always go straight to crying (although I guess I leave my 2nd longer because if I’m doing something like a nappy change with the older one I can’t go straight to her) so I don’t think self settling at this age is a myth. However, if I leave her a few minutes during that unsettled time she gets hysterical, she definitely needs me then and I wouldn’t leave her any longer than I absolutely had to, I certainly don’t think she’d settle herself to sleep without screaming into exhaustion.
Your baby (and mine) are still very tiny and need us to comfort them. Doing a 6 hour stretch of sleep at that age is amazing and is probably because he has the long awake period before. It’s def not 4 month sleep regression territory, that’s when they start having short sleep cycles that they can’t link well so waking every 45 mins to an hour! That hit with our first over Christmas, at about 15 weeks, he was up 12 times the first night we were at my mums, within a few weeks it had settled to every 2-3 hours and that went on for around 18 months. At 2 he still doesn’t often manage a 6 hour stretch!
So in short, no, don’t sleep train! Your baby is currently a great sleeper! Just try to find ways to make the unsettled time more bareable, stay uo with a movie on rather than being bored and stressed in a dark bedroom?

Mine self-settled at 3 months - he just did it, we never left him to cry or anything. He then stopped at four months - I suspect because he was getting more social and could also just see better, so knew more about whether or not we were there! He's now 5.5 months and we're trying very gentle no cry methods - we've managed to wean him off being rocked to sleep (thank god, it wrecked both our backs!) but we're still stroking and singing to him to get him to sleep in the cot. This has only been possible in the last couple of weeks, though - it's like something clicked and he suddenly found our voices sufficiently soothing rather than needing vigorous movement. I bet it goes when he next has a bout of teething, though (he's just got over one). If you're doing no cry things then I don't think it can actively harm, but it might be a waste of time because they change so fast that any 'progress' might be fleeting.

My baby self soothes at night, she's 5 months and has done from an early age so it's definitely not a myth, Although she won't self soothe in the day (weird, eh?)
We put her upstairs to bed with a monitor and regular checking from 5 weeks old, was expecting to start at 6 months as per guidelines, but we had a week solid of her screaming the place down alllll evening, and I mean continual crying, until we put her upstairs and it stopped instantly. Turns out she likes a bit of peace and quiet of a nighttime and problem solved. She's too nosey to sleep with things going on, she actually wants to go to bed and have a bit of peace, no tears, just bottle, put down and she's asleep!
Yes I'm sure some people will say we did it too early but it was a toss up between putting her to bed where she is happy or keeping her downstairs to get hysterical, IMO the latter was the crueler option.

Worth a try (if I've read it right that he's downstairs in a Moses basket currently)

0310star ours also were much more settled in their own space and went into their own room at a couple of weeks old. I know it's not recommended but we had monitors and checked on them lots.

soydora I don't think it's a bad idea tbh to sleep train. It's not a happy existence for anyone to have a baby who doesn't get enough rest. I didn't experience the crying and can imagine it must be distressing.

Thanks so much for the advice folks. Currently fighting yet another sleep battle and honestly don’t know how much more I can take.

My quandary is that he cries when I try and settle him, so it’s a no win situation.

I’m going to try and get a mobile that projects pictures onto the ceiling, maybe that’ll help.

it was a toss up between putting her to bed where she is happy or keeping her downstairs to get hysterical, IMO the latter was the crueler option.

This is exactly my situation. He’s going to get hysterical regardless of what I do. He isn’t comforted by the presence of either me nor DH and I can’t think of anything I haven’t tried. I’m not motivated by simply wanting a quiet life, I just want him to be happy and at the moment, none of us are.

Does he go to sleep happily when left on his own in a separate room?

@AllesAusLiebe have you tried putting him up to bed on his own?
We also have an Ollie the owl which we have found to be great! It's very similar to the my hummy with the cry sensor and I do feel that's had a positive impact on her bedtime routine.

@AssassinatedBeauty (love your username, by the way! Lifelong MSP fan myself! 💋) I’ve never tried it because I’ve always been a slave to the guidance from my health visitor and was concerned about the potential SIDS risk. I’m going to give it a try during the day tomorrow and check on him at regular intervals. I’ve got the angelcare monitor, too, that alerts when there’s a change in breathing. He’s such a strong little boy that I don’t think it can harm to try it.

@0310Star going to try it. I’ve tried almost everything else! Thanks for the tip, I’ll try and pick that up tomorrow, too. I’ve got a dream sheep and the white noise setting used to calm him down but doesn’t work anymore. It also doesn’t have a cry sensor which I think is a good idea.

Tbh when my DD fights sleep like that, I go downstairs and switch the light on. Play with her until she's ready to sleep. She really gets irate if I try and get her to sleep when she isn't tired.

By the sounds of it, your baby is either overtired or under-tired. Have a google of both - which sounds more like your LO?

Both mine have been capable of being awake all day from very young. Ds1 from birth. I read the ‘newborns can only stay awake for 90 mons’ Stuff with a hollow laugh.

So yes they should be asleep after 2.5hr wake time but should isnt always will.

There’s no real body of science behind wonder weeks - it’s quite observational

Anyway, he’s too young for formal sleep training - they say six months for a reason, because it’s pointless doing much before their sleep architecture has transitioned from newborn to the more adult type. This happens about 4 months on average but it can happen several weeks earlier or later. Of this coincides with a fussy period, or early teething ( both mine have started teething before three months) then you will have unsettled evenings.

Wouldnit work for you to just stop trying to enforce slee before he falls asleep himself? If he’s doing six hours that’s amazing (both mine have women hourly, ds1 until 18m and ds2 still at 4m)

Basically, far too wary for sleep training - research shows that it’s best to respond quickly and not leave to cry in the early months. After that it’s quite dependent on how they are and why they’re not sleeping. With ds1 it was separation angst so any pupd/soothe pat stuff made things infinitely worse. I’d wait - sleep tends to coalesce somewhat at six months.

It's a worry when you have the guidance and feel like you're breaking the 'rules', but I spoke to my health visitor and explained why we'd done it and she just said as long as we're taking all safety measures (monitor and regular checking) then we've probably done ourselves a favour later on.
My baby is very routinely, we've been quite strict in enforcing a bedtime routine since she started going upstairs and she is much happier for it all round and sleeps very well. We've never put her in our bed or taken her back downstairs or anything like that if she hasn't settled for whatever reason as it isn't something we wanted her to get into the habit of. We never let her get to crying though, we always go up as soon as she makes a sound and generally it's just wanting the dummy back in and she's back asleep. They soon get the hang of it.

All babies are different, they advise against co sleeping but plenty of people do that so if you feel it's worth a try then go for it!

I think you're trying to get him to bed for the night far too early. Neither of my two who slept well in the night from early on went to bed for the night at 7pm until about 5 months. It was nearer 9pm at 3 months old.

Also, could it be an issue with the moses basket? Both of my boys hated being laid flat because of reflux. So I always recommend trying the cot at an angle. My eldest outgrew the moses basket by about 10 weeks (he was probably too big for it before then TBH) and my youngest was out of the carry cot (didn't have moses basket for him) by 8 weeks.

Well that was a complete waste of time! Put him upstairs in the dark and sat with him for about an hour. The screaming continued and I’ve just had to walk away because I can feel myself getting angry. I’ve left him for about 5 minutes there and he’s still hysterical so I’m going to have to go back upstairs any moment now. I’m still not especially calm and wish I had more patience with this but he completely drains my energy. Another day and evening where all I’ve achieved absolutely nothing - I’ve spent pretty much all day trying to get him to sleep.

I know that some are saying that he might not be tired, but he’s putting his hands in his mouth and his eyes are red so he’s clearly exhausted.

@Fatted I think you may be right and I’m trying to get him to sleep too early. It’s such a difficult cycle to break, however, because if I start getting him to sleep at 9 for example, I’m still doing it at 11. I thought that at least by starting the bedtime at 7.30 there would be a remote possibility of having some downtime on an evening.

I wondered about the lying flat thing as well but putting the mattress at an angle hasn’t worked either. I’ve even had him to a cranial osteopath- honestly I’ve tried everything!

@bowlofbabelfish he certainly doesn’t need anywhere near as much sleep as the books say, so I’m with you there! Thing is, he won’t just fall asleep on his own. In order to achieve the 6 hour stretch on a night I’ve spent 2 hours rocking him, holding his dummy in place (he actively pushes my hand away when I do this- that’s the extent to which he fights sleep).

@Festivenut oh god, he’s been both of these things! It’s so confusing. If I bring him downstairs for more play he just whines and cries. I’m definitely guilty of trying to put him down before he’s ready though because I dread leaving him until he’s overtired.

I didn’t know under tiredness was a thing!

If he is taking his hands to his mouth, when was he last fed? Could he be hungry?

When my kids were that age either i was in bed at 9.30pm or they were downstairs with me. Your baby needs to be with you and nearby to keep him safe.

Accept that your evenings are not your own at least for now and ensure you get enough sleep to maintain your sanity x

I also have a three month old and we have these exact issues. Went through a phase of letting him get overtired, then figured out his awake window and sleep cues better. Honestly I think self-settling at this age is ambitious and everything I’ve read agrees but Jesus Christ it is so frustrating when they’re so so so tired and won’t just close their god damn eyes.

I’ve read the Sleep Lady’s book and that’s helped me understand him a bit more, plus we’ve started aiming for him to wake up from his last nap about 5-5.30 and after that we keep things calm and quiet, short playtime, no tv or music on in the background, lights dimmed, bath, pyjamas. Watch him like a hawk and the second he yawns, I feed and settle. He falls asleep on me then we transfer to his Moses basket upstairs with the monitor on.

This is of course all in theory. It works often enough to stick with it but we also have hysterical screaming, especially if I don’t catch him when he’s ready to nap during the day. I’ve lost count of the hours of pacing up and down with him in tiger in the tree hold (really calms him for some reason) until he’s bored enough to sleep.

All to say, I feel your pain, basically. I have to believe it will pass!

Oh I hear you - ds was ninja level sleep refuser. HOURS of rocking and everything. I’m hugely introverted and it was so hard not having that evening downtime. He woke hourly for 18m then just got it one day and now he sleeps through 98% of the time.

I’d stop trying to force the sleep. Make sure you and your partner are sharing the work and giving each other equal downtime. Get through this tricky period - 4 months is classic ‘all gone to pot’ time and after six months things should settle.

I have a baby who is four months and we just got the bouncer out tonight for him. He’s had a great time in it and it’s knackered him out and he’s sleeping! Make sure he’s getting a good workout physically, loads of fresh cold air on walks (wrap up warm obvs) and then stuff him full of milk and see what happens. That’s all you can do.

It’s immensely hard having a non sleeper. I literally didn’t sleep more than an hour or so for 18m. I shudder thinking of it. This age is too young to train - you may make them worse, so it is sometimes just a case of rearranging your day to cope as best you can.

DS is almost 8 months and my only advice here is don't bother training until you have passed the 4month sleep regression as it possibly all goes out the window anyway!

There's an amazing app that helped me called Huckleberry where you pop your details in and based on the babies age will recommend times for naps based on their total days sleep, awake times etc, really helped me! You can then if you want pay to have their sleep analyzed and they then give you a plan to help them sleep better ( you can choose gentle or less gentle approaches here).

DS was a horrific sleeper until about 6 months when our sleep training payed off. At 3 months he stayed down with us every evening until we went to bed at about 11 and mostly napped and fell asleep on me. My advice is do what you need to do for now to get through and then sleep train at about 4.5 months.

It's a phase, it will pass, you will sleep again

Good grief, far to young. still a little biological needy little bod. Give him a break. You have the rest odf his life to "train" him

Don't do it. It's abuse.

I think some people’s answers are based on a very limited definition of sleep training. There are a lot of no-cry, gentle methods out there and even things like learning sleep cues, encouraging naps at certain times, a night time bath/bed routine and experimenting with different soothing methods would class as sleep training in my eyes.