Controlled Crying - Broken baby?!

[1NuDad]

Hi.

What a difference a weekend can make.

We started sleep training on Friday. We took advice from someone who came recommended. Essentially, controlled crying; putting him down awake after a nighttime routine and then going in every five minutes. No feeding until the morning. First night was OK. He settled himself after 25 minutes or so of moderate crying. Second night was better; he was asleep after about 9 minutes and woke up once to self-settle and got back to sleep until 6am ish.

We thought we cracked it.

Then his mood plummeted the day after. He was miserable. We guessed teething, but he started getting apprehensive when going into his room, in the day, even for nappy changes. His last nap of the day was a battle, he screamed to sleep but eventually went off.

At bedtime, it was fine. Asleep straight away. I thought, "great, here comes the third night sleeping through" that everyone talks about.

Nope.

At 23:45, he woke and got more and more upset. This lasted for two hours and we cracked. Couldn't take it. He was inconsolable, there were no gaps in his crying. It was getting worse and nothing like the first two days of moderate crying. We gave him granules. We gave him Nurofen. Nothing worked. Going in seemed to traumatise him more. We wanted to feed him, simply to sooth him. I know this was wrong in our advice, but he is such a happy baby. Seeing him upset was the worse thing we've experienced as parents. I also had been reading these forums about how dreadful it is and traumatising for the children, so I wanted to abandon the plan fully. We fed him and he slept until the morning. Temporary relief, but I knew we'd made a mistake with our plan.

Today has been even worse. We don't know whether we're coming or going. He's probably confused and very scared. Loud crying every time we try and even entertain the idea of a nap. The old techniques aren't even working! Not even rocking to sleep. We've had to let him fall to sleep on the breast twice. Otherwise, he wouldn't have napped.

It's really affected all of us. All three of us are upset and feel nervous, especially ahead of tonight. I'd do anything even to go back to what we had pre-training; being rocked to sleep etc. At least we knew we had a baby who never cried.

But now what on earth do we do? Try again? Come up with a compromise? We feel like we've broken him. It's horrible. My partner is back at work next month and can't keep feeding him in the night, hence our decision to sleep train.

It feels so inhumane to have upset him so much to the point where he is scared of something. That's not right.

So sorry to hear about your experience @1NuDad 😢 but thanks for sharing it on here! I'm sorry I don't have any solutions for you, but just want to offer support/hug/tea/gin!

My baby is just over 3 months old, he only either falls asleep in the sling, or on the boob. He's never slept through the night and gets up at least 3 times a night to feed. We bed share with him and I feed him lying down so don't have to get up - it's tiring but it's what works so we are going to carry on for now... We have been told that we would 'need' to sleep train him when he is older, as he can't feed to sleep forever, but we have been apprehensive about letting him cry (he almost never cries right now) and hearing your story is definitely making us think twice - so thanks again for sharing.

I really hope your LO gets back to his former self (how old is he may I ask?) - I'm sure it's just a phase from the shock of it all maybe, but getting lots of kisses and cuddles from mom and dad must be helping. All the very best to you and partner!! xxx

Thank you, nice to have that support. It feels pretty scary at times, especially when we're clueless in the middle of the night.

I should've said - he's eight months old. He sounds similar to your baby. Fell to sleep in the sling or on the boob at that age and never slept through the night. We now just think, "well, it was tiring, but at least he was happy". He wasn't even too bad. He took to his cot well, he took to his own room well, he just needed rocking/feeding to send him to sleep.

I just wish that we had gone for a more gradual method, through someone, I guess, like Andrea Grace.

This just felt like, one night he's having love to get him to sleep, the next he's having absolutely nothing apart from a tame pat on the back while he's distressed every five minutes. I feel like it's been far too abrupt for him.

As you say, we hope it's just the shock of it. Now, ridiculously, we feel like we at least want to go back to how it was last week! We are dreading tonight. Easily the worst feeling of being parents so far. Even when he had his horrible vaccinations, at least he knew he could get love and comfort from his mum and dad!

If I could speak to myself from last week, I'd just say to approach it more gradually and slowly. It feels too extreme and too intense with how we've done it and not suited to his temperament at all.

Thank you for your reply though and good luck with yours. :)

Would you consider co-sleeping for a while? We have found that when DS is unsettled, we all get a better nights sleep if we bring him into bed with us. That way we can soothe him when he half wakes and get him back to sleep before he wakes properly and gets upset. DS is a year now. I dropped his night feed (usually around 1am) at around 10 months and it didn't improve his sleep. Until a few days ago, he fed to sleep every night. He then just stopped feeding to sleep and was awake after his feed. This evening I fed him before his story and put him to bed awake. I stayed with him until he went to sleep, it took about 10 mins (and lying him down about 10 times as he kept standing up) - I was amazed. Anyway my point is, I was terrified that he wouldn't be able to sleep without the final feed and he is managing it much better than I anticipated.

In my opinion he is too young for sleep training. If it’s traumatising you all then stop. It doesn’t sound like it’s working.

Also feeding to sleep at that age is fine, he is still a baby! How many times was he waking in the night?

I fed DD to sleep until 13 months when she just decided she wasn’t doing it anymore. From then she just laid down and I would pay her back and make ssshing noises and she would be gone. Honestly he won’t be feeding to sleep forever.

Thanks for your post, MyNameIsJune. Interesting to hear you say eight months is too young - I'm regularly seeing people talk about sleep training at six months?

The main issue isn't feeding to sleep, it's just we need him to sleep through the night as soon as possible. My partner returns to work next month and I just can't see how we can both work full-time, intense jobs (and in London!) with hours waking up in the night.

He wakes in the night every two/two and a half hours I'd say. So maybe three/four every night. My partner's welfare is as important as anything. I just want them both to be comfortable. It's so difficult.

If there's such a way to feed to sleep and to have them sleep through the night, then great. But they feel mutually exclusive?

Thanks cedartree12 too - we've never really entertained the thought of co-sleeping. He is such an active baby that we'd feel as though he'd wriggle all over the place. And we've been worried about SIDS risks and being too tired that we'd roll over on him etc.

But now we'd entertain any idea. He's currently feeding, post-bath, on the breast and crying . He's never been that upset before. He always takes the breast. He probably knows he's about to go into his room and go through all that hell again. Awful.

I thought my little girl would wake in the night forever for as long as I breastfed. She was at her worst from 7-9 months I'd say, waking every hour some nights. But she did eventually cut down to just one or two wake ups a night after 12 months.

I stopped bf 2 months ago when she was 16 months and she sleeps through the night the majority of the time now. We still have to cuddle or rock her to sleep though then put her in the cot ! Not really sure how to stop this, I never fancied sleep training. I'm hoping she'll just naturally not need it at some point. Because she sleeps so well we don't mind at the minute!

We did a similar technique to sleep train our then nearly 1 year old, we were desperate, and he got so distressed that he would make himself sick. This became a learnt behaviour and he'd be sick on purpose when getting upset at other times of the day, he had a sensitive gag reflex which didn't help, but it was so so stressful.

Our situations aren't entirely the same, but similar and I empathise, it's awful.

We had to go back to basics, lots of comfort and time. We spent months doing a gradual withdrawal process, followed the policy of 'if he's not crying leave him', didn't rush in to him in the mornings or after a nap to help him feel happy in his cot alone.

Does yours on have a dummy or other comforter? Our son has a soft toy which he uses to help soothe him independently. We still use a lullaby to help too.

Baring illness and teething DS is now nearly 2.5 and happily goes to bed and settlers himself for naps and bedtime. It will get better, unfortunately there may not be a quick fix, in the meantime plenty of wine/cake/coffee/whatever helps!

Good luck!

I have posted recently about extinction bursts. Here is a couple of links that may potentially be relevant:

www.preciouslittlesleep.com/extinction-burst/
drgeraldstein.wordpress.com/2010/03/11/what-children-need-from-parents-iii-beware-the-extinction-burst/

To add DS wasn't breastfed so can't help there but when we're trying to cut out his overnight bottle we set a time to feed him first wake up. So first wake up after 2.30am, any wake ups before then resettled without feeding. And then gradually extended the time, first wake up after 3am, 3.30am etc. That did work.

@1nuDad most people I’ve seen on here say no to training before a year but it’s a personal choice.

DD didn’t sleep for more than 1.5hrs at a time from 4 to 9 months. But then started sleeping again by herself and only waking up once. She is nearly 3 now and has slept through from a year old. I was lucky though that I didn’t have to go back to work until DD was 13 months. It’s tough, full time work and young children it’s jusf hard work sometimes.

Have you looked at other methods sleep training? Like gradual retreat rather than controlled crying.

I feel your pain, having experienced similar. I have come to realize that sleep training is fine, co-sleeping is fine, in fact all of the approaches are 'fine', but babies are all different, and there's no one size fits all approach. Ultimately, you know your baby...if he is distressed then sack it off and go back to basics. You can always try a more gentle approach at a later date. Yes I know it would be great to have it all sorted by the time your OH goes back to work, but babies just aren't that accommodating. For some, sleeping for 12 hours straight simply isn't going to happen yet. Mine is now 20 months, and we eventually had to do a more gentle version of sleep training to get him to go through, sometimes he does sometimes he doesn't. You'll get there, don't force it...or you'll all end up distressed.

The Facebook group beyond sleep training project is a lovely supportive community of people with suggestions/solidarity for people with babies that don't sleep well. Second the advice to try co sleeping. It's an absolute game changer as you don't have to wake up fully and the sleepy hormones from bf will help you get back to sleep too. Also sounds like your baby could use the cuddles now. My lo feeds to sleep and then goes anywhere from 2 hours to 8 in her cot then comes in with me, some nights she'll wake twice, other nights is maybe 6+ but I try not to count. Sleep is developmental and they get there when they are ready, I don't believe you can teach them to sleep by ignoring them. I went back to work at a year commuting an hour fifteen into London and it's been fine, surprisingly. Work is energising. Good luck.

I just wanted to say that feeding to sleep and feeding during the night are not dependent on each other. My son stopped feeding during the night at about 16 months (I told him my breasts didn't work at night anymore but always gave him cuddles and sat with him, never left him to cry) but was fed to sleep until his 3rd birthday. It would have been earlier but he was so happy to go to bed and fell asleep in 5 mins. We negotiated about age 3 😂 He still loves bedtime and I sit with him a bit still but please don't get worried about feeding an 8 month old to sleep, it's the natural thing to do and really doesn't mean they won't sleep through ever.

It sounds like none of you are quite ready for sleep training. We did it with our daughter at 6 months and I hated it but my husband was better at sticking to it than me and in the end it worked well for us.

Could your partner express so that you can both take a share of night feeds when she goes back to work?

My wee guy had never slept more than an hour ever he's now 13 months and we've tried every sleep training going. He's normally fed to sleep but we have been doing daddy does night times so he isn't waking and getting boob to fall back asleep on and last night he only woke up 3 times 😮 not holding out hope as tomorrow we are away from home and likely to upset everything 😂

My DD is 2 and I've recently stopped breastfeeding because she was waking frequently in the night for me but would sleep through with no problem for others. Getting her to sleep each night was also becoming a complete nightmare with hours of her wanting more milk. I knew it wasn't about the milk as she'll go to sleep without any for my parents and still sleep through. As she shares a bedroom with her older sister, I couldn't attempt any kind of controlled crying as it would be too disruptive. But what I have done does seem to have improved things. I don't leave her on her own, I hold her or cuddle her and stay with her until she's asleep. Initially she was upset that she wasn't getting milk, but it was manageable as I was still there comforting her through it. I did the same when she woke in the night. Now she will go to sleep with a cuddle or me laying with her. She is still waking occasionally in the night or up early, but it's a big improvement on what it was. Over time I intend to get her used to settling to sleep on her own, but for now she has come to the realisation that even if she does wake in the night she's not getting milk, so she just goes back to sleep.

Do you think this approach would work better for you and him? That way he knows you're still there and is likely to be less traumatic.

This is going to sound harsh and I don't mean it to but your partner going back to work is not your baby's problem. As a pp said sleep is developmental and it's hard to force children to sleep through before they're ready. Unfortunately, you might just have to accept being tired for now, many parents manage to work full time and still get up to their baby in the night, it's shit but unfortunately it's life if you can't afford to stay at home

Cosleeping absolutely saved my sanity when back at work. We had a 3-sided cot strapped to the bed (you can buy a purpose-built one or just take the side off a normal cot) so the baby had her own sleep surface but could cuddle up to me as well, and I didn’t have to get up and out of bed to feed her. Really, really recommend it.

The kind of sleep training you tried will work for some babies, but others it just won’t work for. It sounds like you’ve got one of the second type. If he’s not just grumbling a bit but full-on screaming and in real distress, I’d ditch the plan altogether. Work on getting him comfortable and calm and okay with his room now, then try a gentler method once that’s done.

If the gentler method doesn’t work, though, I really do recommend co-sleeping, I’d have gone barking mad with the sleep deprivation without it. It wasn’t my Plan A but needs must!

He is still so tiny, and not old enough to understand that when you leave him you are still there.Breastfeeding draws babies close to us but controlled crying or the like push them away, so he is probably feeling confused.Babies are not designed to be self reliant at such a young age and do not know how to manage their emotions and needs independently.Please disregard this 'plan' and trust your motherly instincts...Cuddle, rock, feed him as much as he and you need.Its bloody hard at times being needed so intensely isn't it, but it won't be forever, even though it feels it now as I was in your shoes. My LG fed to sleep at bedtime religiously until 17 months but now only has a couple of brief feeds a night.When he is older and he understands much more, it will be much easier to break the habit without needing extreme methods xx

I agree with most other posters, 8 months is young for sleep training.
My advice is: don't force it.
Go with your own gut feeling, advice is great, but you know your baby more than anybody else.

Food: when is he having his tea? How far are you with weaning? And would it be possible to give him a bottle of formula before bed?
Just thinking that maybe he is not getting enough food and giving him something like formula will help with sleeping longer as it is harder to digest.

@1NuDad your experience is strikingly similar to mine. We tried controlled crying around 5 months of age. The first two nights were not too bad: he slept through after moderate crying. But on the third and fourth nights, he cried almost non stop from 1-3am. We gave up on the 5th evening. I felt so sorry for him that I decided to never leave him crying to sleep again.
I survived the next couple of months by breastfeeding him to sleep and sleeping on the same bed. He would wake up 4-5 times a night, each time I only needed to latch him on and we could both go back to sleep within minutes.
We continued to co-sleep after I weaned him off night feeds.
After his first birthday his sleep improved to waking on average twice a night, and each time needing nothing more than a sentence of comfort from me. The improvement was gradual and steady.
Now at 15months, bedtime is really easy. I lay my pajama in his cot and put him on top and say goodnight. Then I leave the room. He just goes to sleep quietly on his own.
I think although the sleep training was traumatic for him, he was all right once we stopped training and became responsive and gentle.
Hang on there. It will get better:)

I tried sleep training yesterday on 4month old and same thing. He got so distressed.
I think just going back for a few days or a week and then trying something new.

Thanks everyone for your messages.

Pleased to say that we've abandoned the sleep training. It feels like a relief that we know we won't harm him anymore. Bizarrely, he actually slept from 19:50 to 06:00! 10 hours! But we think he was just exhausted from all the stress and needed it. Doubt it'll happen tonight.

@SazCat - I absolutely don't mind having to rock him if it means sleeping through! As said, I guess they just get to a point where they are old enough to do it.

@Tobykins - The vomiting story is very upsetting. Our sleep trainer told us he won't remember the crying and stress, but it actually seemed as though he couldn't get it out of his head! Babies are wiser than maybe our sleep trainer thought...

@gindrinkingmarypoppins - I read this to my partner and it made so much sense. Good to have that common sense approach.

@sockgnome - Thank you! Will join that group. Sometimes I think support is all we need.

Our plan is to abandon controlled crying but stick to keeping him awake during his last feed and putting him down awake, but will stay by his cot until he falls to sleep, with shushing, patting and kissing. If he can't take it, we'll pick him up and rock him. It worked last night.

We're also going to cut the night feeds. It'll mean we can share the work load at night too, for when he does wake up. He already seems to accept that he doesn't need milk in the night, so maybe we've gained SOMETHING during all this stress!

Thanks again to all.

@2littleboymonkeys - It just doesn't seem worth it IMO. Life is too short to hear your baby cry in distress.

I do have one slight worry though, having said all the above. Our son will be going to a childminder's four days a week when my partner goes back to work. I'm worried he won't nap while he's with her which could lead to all kinds of overtired and stressful situations. If anyone has worked out a way of dealing with that, it'd be great to hear!