Teaching 10wk old to self-settle - is this achievable and if so, how?!

[amazonianwoman]

DS has been hard work settling since day 1 - won't ever sleep in car or pram, goes from happy to meltdown in seconds, will only sleep in cot after I've rocked/fed him into a deep sleep, which can take ages and rarely works because I have DD either running in & out of his room or screaming if I try to leave her downstairs. Even if I do get him in his cot he often wakes and needs resettling several times.

I don't have the luxury of just holding him for naps like I did with DD (who was exactly the same ) I do carry him in a wraparound sling at least once a day, and he does sleep well in that, but even that is restrictive with a toddler - she's getting increasingly jealous and hence playing up a lot.

With DD I spent probably 2-3 weeks doing gradual withdrawal at 4mths and she became an excellent sleeper after that, but I just don't know how I'm going to find the time to devote to this this time - I remember spending HOURS in her room practically in her cot, then sitting next to cot etc.

So, can a younger baby be taught to self-settle? Should it take less time cos he's younger? And how do I do it??!!

aw, I suspect you might recoil in horror at what I am about to suggest
(quite a few MNers might but hey! at least your thread will get noticed )
but to answer your OP completely truthfully:

Gina Ford, 'The new contented little baby book'

Quite a few people from our NCT group followed it and achieved
exactly what you ask for in your OP.

Thanks for your reply, thought we weren't meant to mention GF

I don't have a problem with GF or the book at all (DD ended up in pretty much the same routine) but not sure how I can practically work with it this time with all the toddler groups, nursery runs etc? Plus I try settling him drowsy but not asleep (watching his sleep cues) and he just starts fussing then eventually goes into meltdown, so not sure how the book could help there??

I was in exactly your position with an older DS running round the place when trying to settle the baby. I did GF (loosely) with DS1, but it is impossible with 2 children, when you have playgroups etc to attend. other than the feeding every three hours and keeping them up for 2ish hours, i didn't use that book at all 2nd time round...
I don't know if this helps at all, but with DS2 (who is now 8 months) I have to feed him to sleep or rock him to sleep at this age, he did evetually learn to settle himself (i think the routine of closing the curtains, putting him in his sleeping bag and turning on the mobile has helped with this as he knows then it is sleep time). But at this age it is still very young and sometimes they just need that closeness with mummy, I was very reliant on CBeebies to occupy DS1 in the early days, but pleased to say we hardly turn it on these days!
Good luck...it does get much easier!

Thanks Mabel Yes, I stick with feeding every 3ish hours too. He can't even stay awake for 2hrs yet!

I don't mind feeding/rocking to sleep if I can then put him down, but he always seems to wake after 15mins Can you remember what age your baby sussed self-settling?!

Know what you mean about Cbeebies - although Finding Nemo seems to be the fave right now. I know it word for word, so does DD

Hi amazonianwoman (and thanks for yr post on my cloth nappy q thread). I don't have any advice but am in an identical situation so wanted to make contact.

Ds2 is 9 weeks and EXACTLY the same! Won't sleep in car or pram, goes crazy if I miss his exact tired window and then it takes me twenty years to get him to sleep, won't sleep anywhere except on me.

I think three times in the 9 week he's had a decent stretch of sleep in the bed (we're co-sleeping so his bed is our bed, though we also have bedside cot that is currently full of books!). Even if he is in what seems like a deep deep sleep he either wakes up as soon as I try to put him down, or else 5-15 mins after.

So I let him sleep in the sling, which is cuddly but a bit hot and sweaty, and I don't want to do it for ever.

Ds1 is maybe a bit older than yr dd - he's 4, and not so jealous, but I think he is sick of me saying that I can't do this and that cause I've got a baby on me. And like you, I can't imagine devoting time to any sleep strategy when ds1 is going to be running in and out of the room the whole time.

ds2's even woken up on me in the sling now, after just 20 mins, cause I'm sitting down and not swaying or bobbing around.

I'll be watching this thread with interest. Maybe we'll find a miracle solution? Or maybe we'll have a long hot summer of babies strapped to our fronts?!

Ah, sorry aw, I had not thought of that!
I, too, hope someone will provide inspiration here as dw and I are going to be in your shoes in a couple of years time..

I'm in a similar kind of situation, dd1 is 3 and dd2 is 13 weeks. Just this week we've started putting dd2 in her hammock awake instead of feeding/rocking her to sleep. I got the of my life when she ... gasp ... fell asleep with no help!! She grizzles for 3 or 4 minutes sometimes, if she cries properly I go in to her and give her a cuddle until she stops, then put her back in her hammock, still awake. It's working so far.

I've been looking at CLB but not following it strictly. I ignore the feeding part completely and just look at the sleep bit for an idea of how much sleep she should have in the day. Like you I can't have a strict day time nap schedule due to dd1's activities but I try to make sure dd2 doesn't have more than the suggested maximum of day time sleep.

It's kind of working, although dd2 is currently sound asleep on her playmat so bedtime will probably be b*ggered up tonight! Hey ho...

Thanks PY, that's very encouraging I guess I'll just keep trying and hope that he works it out in the next few weeks!

I too keep a check of how many hours DS sleeps during the day, tho' at this stage it doesn't really seem to have too much effect on night sleep, as he wakes every 3hrs (sometimes 2) regardless. So much for them almost sleeping through by 12wks

DS was the opposite tonight - didn't have a nap late afternoon, so was so wired that it has taken 2.5hrs to get him to bed in his cot. Aaaarrrghhhh!

Manoo - I have a couple of Gypsymama bali baby breeze wrap slings which are quite cool www.gypsymama.com/shop/breeze.htm

Am watching this thread with interest (ok, desperation) ladies - I had just started one of my own. And I have caused the whole problem by making dd dependent on my finger to suck, so that she now goes ballistic when it is withdrawn - how stupid am I??

daddyJ - feel free to shout 'GINA FORD' at me.

you could try 'the no cry sleep solution' if you want to take a more gentle approach to things. written by elizabeth pantley. it too has guides for amounts of sleep etc but is far more gentle than GF.

my ds is only 6 weeks, but I'll be watching this thread closely as he sounds just like some of the slightly older babies you've all been talking about - only goes to sleep on me; has to be rocked/cuddled into deep sleep, then wakes once he's put in the cot. (Perhaps I shouldn't complain as he's only like this during the day - he's brilliant at night. ) I know it's early but I am finding it hard to spend the entire day with him attached to me!

Oh no - another one here. am doing this one handed in dark as am finally bfing ds2 - 8 wks - to sleep after an hour of screaming. until last week we were both very happy with him having his daytime and evening sleeps in the sling but it just doesn't suit me or him any more now that he weighs almost 13lbs and his big bro literally pulls him out of the sling mid-sleep. daytime's fine in the pram or carseat he's pretty good. but last night he didn't settle 'til 1030 and he's certainlt not doing the 8 hour stretches of sleep as often as he was.

think i just have to find anew routine and stick to it 'til he gets the message. but what????

8hr stretches of sleep - I can only dream! We still haven't managed more than 3

I have a copy of the No Cry Sleep Solution, and I guess it's a similar approach to the one I used with DD. I'm still struggling with how I'll find the time to devote to DS with DD running around or complaining that I'm ignoring her.

I wish DH could have a couple of weeks off work...

I suppose I'd recommend a trip to the cranial osteopath to determine whether there is a reason why they are finding it hard to sleep deeply.

am part of the way through reading ncss and i dont get it. it seems to say accept it and you wont get as stressed but so far has very little in the way of actual advice other than pick him up if he cries, then put him down again problem is mine screams the second he realises he is going down so i dont even get him in the cot before he is crying most of the time. will carry on reading but have finished the 0-4m bit and am no wiser, if anyone can explain it to me would be v grateful - might be the sleep deprivation preventing the info getting in i suppose

i know! what a good boy, which is why it's heartbreaking that the sling wasn't working for us any more.can't help thinking "I've broken my baby!"

any birth trauma that might be causing the restlessness? I know I look back and wish I'd taken ds2 to a cranial osteo - he was appalling and wouldn't sleep hardly at all but i'm sure now it's cos he was in pain after a ventouse delivery.

Goblin: perservere with NCSS, it has quite a few solutions but mainly for older babies Her take is that up to 4 months there's bugger all you can really do as they sleep when they want (I'm paraphrasing here). The later stuff is useful. And she has some good stuff about the amount of sleep babies need and getting into routines.

SMML: could be a growth spurt as they have one at 6-8 weeks. Just keep feeding and it should settle down

only a month to go then! thanks swizzler i have not read the older stuff yet so thats sounds hopeful

interesting about birth trauma, ds was em cs as he was breech. after ds3 was born (wonderful calm water birth) i was told calm birth = calm baby, no one has said nightmare birth = nightmare baby but it does make you wonder

No great advice but same problem here! 10 weeks and dreadful at settling. Just like his older brother.

He seems to be getting the hang of getting a fist in his mouth to suck which I hope will make a big difference. And the amount of milk he puts away is ridiculous so can't imagine that I'm not 'getting the feeds in" through the day. Have to go - he is screaming again...!

Hi again Amazonianwoman - thanks for the sling link, they look great and much cooler than the one I have at the mo.

Don't know about you, but I feel better knowing there are lots of similar babies out there. I'm hoping things will settle around 12 weeks, as my ds seems to have dodgy digestion, which wakes him up a lot of the time.

Worth us all remembering that this time will go very very quickly.

You're right about the dodgy digestion Manoo - DS has terrible wind, wakes him 5.15 every morning without fail, and often at other times too.

We've already seen a cranial osteopath - 3 visits at 3-5wks, but didn't help at all I thought it helped with DD, but we saw him later (from 8wks) and I'm wondering whether she was just getting easier anyway. She was delivered via crash section with forceps with cord wrapped round middle and seriously distressed. DS was born by emergency section and his heartrate was up slightly, so neither were exactly calm births!

I think I'm just going to have to ride it out then start using NCSS/gradual withdrawal methods from 12-14wks - hoping DH can have a week off so that he can entertain DD!

Thanks all for your replies

GPWM re growth spurt. In the hot weather he was feeding every 2 hours in the day. I'm sure he'll settle down. I just remember DS1 being completely brilliant and self-settling at 8 weeks, then being ghastly until he was 8 months. And not sure I can cope with that... especially with DS1 being nightmare.

Last night we settled on new strategy which is to rock him in his pram downstairs (that way I don't feel isolated and get to watch some telly and he gets to go to sleep) until he's really dead to the world then transfer him to the cot when we go to bed. It's a modification of the thing that worked with the sling. And if it works, we'll just start moving him upstairs earlier and earlier. Which was the plan with the sling.

Will let you know how it goes...