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Sleep

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Original poster

Breaking the feed to sleep connection?

44 replies

TookyClothespin · 17/04/2018 07:19

DD2 is a big comfort feeder, unlike DD1. Every nap, bedtime, and when she wakes if I'm there, she wants boob. If I'm not there, she'll settle for someone else without even a cup of milk or water. Not every time at night, admittedly, but one or two of her 3 wake up she will.
So, my question - if she'll settle for others, how do I get her out of the habit and get her settling for me without boob? She shares a bedroom with DD1 so need to keep crying to a minimum so she doesn't wake her. Moving to own rooms is not an option as we don't have enough bedrooms. Moving her back to our room would mean she wants feeding even more.
I don't want to totally stop BF, just get more sleep at night.

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Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

Original poster

TookyClothespin · 17/04/2018 07:22

Forgot tonsay, DD2 is 13 months

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Missonhartbaby · 17/04/2018 10:42

I don't have any advice but am in the exact same boat as you, DS will only be fed to sleep and if I try to rock him off instead or let him settle himself he just screams bloody murder!! Naps I can get him off by rocking in his pram but ideally I want him to sleep in his cot for naps too. I feel like my entire life at the moment is just trying to get him to sleep! How often does she wake up at night? DS wakes up at least 5 or so times a night Zzzzz

Missonhartbaby · 17/04/2018 10:43

DS is only 6 months though unlike your little girl

Original poster

TookyClothespin · 17/04/2018 11:07

She's awake 3 times a night generally, sometimes more.
She won't often nap in the pushchair, wish she would sometimes!

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Missonhartbaby · 17/04/2018 11:21

My OH can get him off to sleep with just rocking but if I try it he just roots and gets himself so worked up if I don't give it him... So frustrating. I'm going to be trying the 'pantley pull off' so not letting him fall into a deep sleep while latched on and hopefully then can start to disassociate feeding to sleep... And maybe even self settling!! Wouldn't that be the dream

Original poster

TookyClothespin · 17/04/2018 20:40

What's the pantley pull off? Sorry, not one I've heard of.

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Missonhartbaby · 17/04/2018 20:42

I hadn't either till the other day... But apparently you let them have a comfort suck when they want it but take them off the nipple once they are settled, don't let them fall asleep latched on, and then you can make the comfort suck shorter and shorter until they don't need it. Apparently!

drinkyourmilk · 17/04/2018 20:50

I've just trying to brake our feed to sleep association. My lo is almost 13 months.
I changed her bedtime routine so she now has milk, story, into grobag, cuddle then bed. (We've always coslept so I'm moving away from that too).
I settle her first wake up with patting and shushing - then it all goes to buggery. She's up every 1-2 hours after an initial 3-4 hour sleep, and I always end up with her back in bed with me at some point.
like your lo, mine settles for others but demands boob from me. So I had to bite the bullet and break the cycle myself. I'm not a believer in cc or cio- so it's taking a while, but she will get there in the end. The first few nights were awful for me as I spent much of the time shushing patting, carrying her, quick feeds- but not to sleep. So so so tired! But improving.

Smurf123 · 17/04/2018 20:57

Hi can I ask if you feed to sleep do you still burp them?
My ds is only 6 weeks and while a week or so ago he was self settling after his 9pm feed I now can't put him down until he is asleep., and often he wakes up as soon as he touches the moses basket and then gets upset and wants fed again (comfort really I think)

Original poster

TookyClothespin · 17/04/2018 21:04

Will have to try the pantley pull off then. Bizarre thing is she will some time feed but not to sleep at 7pm, then settle in her cot with me sat next to her. But during the night and nap time- no chance!

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Missonhartbaby · 17/04/2018 21:14

Smurf123 Yea sounds like he just wants the comfort to go back off to sleep. He's still so young so I wouldn't worry too much, I personally. Wouldn't do any sort of sleep training really until 6 months ish. Do you swaddle him? That may help, they don't notice the change in temp so much then when they go into their own bed.
TookyClothespin my LO has very occasionally gone off to sleep in his own too, one time randomly in the travel cot at my mother's. I thought I had cracked it then and he was gonna be self settling from then in but no!! Ha

Missonhartbaby · 17/04/2018 21:16

@drinkyourmilk sounds exactly like my nights at the moment! So exhausting isn't it! I couldn't do cio or anything either, but sometimes unless I feed him he'll be screaming and crying even though I'm there holding him so it seems almost as bad!

Oly5 · 17/04/2018 21:23

Smurf at that age they are all like this! They like to be held and omdont self settle really. It’s all normal.
My third child will also only
Feed to sleep (six months) or with a dummy. With my second child I waited til she was 16 months and then moved to cuddles and offering cups of cows milk. It eventually worked with her in my arms. We then moved to me doing gradual retreat to get her to go to sleep without me holding her. It all takes time. I think 16 months was perfect for her as she understood more

Original poster

TookyClothespin · 17/04/2018 21:24

Smurf - at 6 weeks their sleeping patterns keep changing so much! Don't try to sleep train yet, growth sports and development leaps will throw it all up in the air anyway.
I would burp both DD's at that age, but not now.
Swaddle, and white noise might help

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Teaformeplease · 17/04/2018 21:28

I found this helpful...
drjaygordon.com/breastfeeding/night-nursing-the-older-baby.html

Smurf123 · 17/04/2018 21:43

Thanks, I'm not sleep training, it just so happened that for a few days in a row last week I put him down awake (tbh mainly as I needed the Loo the first day) and he shuffled about and went to sleep himself with no tears or crying, I thought it was too good to last.
But he does see to struggle with wind so I worry about putting him down if I haven't burpef him , or tried.. Doesn't always work. But the process of trying to get wind up seems to wake him and means we just end up staying the whole process over again.
I haven't tried swaddling yet. He was in NICU for a week following birth and they told me they only swaddle as they have all the monitors to keep a close eye on baby and that swaddling at home want recommended.
Can you tell I'm a first time mum?
I've had my mother in law here for the last 5 days visiting from abroad (husband is from Europe and his daily still live there) where she has spent the time telling my husband how I'm doing things wrong. Things like ds is crying with wind and not sleeping or settling himself because I'm feeding him too much. Or because the house is cold (is always 19/20 degrees by the room thermometer)

Oly5 · 17/04/2018 21:53

Oh just ignore her. Do you breastfeed? It’s pretty impossible to feed a baby too much if they are breast fed. All three of my children have suffered with awful wind up to the age of six months. I’ve winded them all after feeeing them but they still have woken up frequently either for feeds or because they have trapped wind. Young babies’ digestion is not very good.. these things get so much easier once they are older.
Hang in there I am sure you’re doing fine.
Young babies mostly want to be held and fed. Just sleep when you can try to just get through it. Eventually they do learn to sleep I promise!

Smurf123 · 17/04/2018 22:02

Thanks Oly! Yes he is breastfed so that's what I thought! He sleeps brilliantly if he is in your arms, just not so fond of the moses basket

Missonhartbaby · 17/04/2018 22:30

Sounds like your doing great! Try not to listen to what other people say, I have a cousin in law who was the worst for telling me what I shouldn't and shouldn't be doing. I got really down about it until a friend told me to just ignore her! Only mum knows what's best for her baby so just go with your gut :) I tried to wind but it kind of just wound him up, sometimes if I gently rocked and burped him at the same time that would help. Other than that feeding lying down I found helped with wind. :)

SpectacularAardvark · 17/04/2018 23:20

I'm trying to do this too, DS is 20 months and still wakes once or twice every night for milk. He spends ages feeding and it takes hours to settle him on a night too as he just suckles for ever and screams when I take him off, it's so hard. I feel like I'm doing it all wrong but not sure what else to try.
I've been giving him extra cereal and cows milk before bed to make sure his tummy is full and have tried offering water but it doesn't work.

BentleyBelly · 18/04/2018 09:16

I read Solve Your Child's Sleep Problems by Dr Ferber and reluctantly tried Progressive Waiting sleep training which is basically controlled crying. I know it's unpopular here but ds cried for 15 mins the first night with checks and reassurance at 3, 5, 7, 10 mins. He cried for 17 mins the 2nd night, 3 mins the 3rd night and went straight to sleep with no crying the 4th night. He still wakes twice to feed but then settles on his own after. My evenings and nights are transformed and he wakes happy, refreshed and in his own bed. He shares a room with his older sister and we moved her in with us the first night but she went back in from the second night after he had settled. He was crying and unsettled on and off all night before...more crying in my arms or me trying to soothe him with him in the cot or with him attached to my boob for hours...less crying by training in the long run. Dr Ferber talks about sleep associations and how they just need to learn to go to sleep on their own...it really is worth a read.

QueenAravisOfArchenland · 18/04/2018 09:21

smurf all that is just normal. I cosleep at that age so when baby falls asleep beside me (I do all my night feeds side lying) I just gently detach and roll away, so I usually don't wind if baby is asleep at end of feed. Or I turn them upright in my arms and gently pat back. But I would try getting a cosleeper cot if you haven't already, feeding lying on your side and then gently sliding him back into cot.

Ignore your MIL - it's their job to say you're doing it wrong :) and she's talking bollocks.

Missonhartbaby · 19/04/2018 07:31

@BentleyBelly thats interesting... What do you do when you go in to check, do you pick him up or touch him at all or just let him know your there and then leave again?

BentleyBelly · 19/04/2018 11:41

@Missonhartbaby we don't pick him up, I stroke his head, pat his chest, shh him, tell him it's bedtime and I love him and give him a kiss before I leave again. Stay about 30secs. The crying normally escalates a little as you leave again but the whole point is that they learn to fall asleep without you there so they don't learn to depend on it. He now naps in his cot and settles quite quickly. We do still sometimes have a few minutes protest crying. Last night I really messed up, the day ran away with me and he missed his last nap so he was over tired, I then attempted to listen to my dd read while I fed him before bed and then messed around with what he should wear to bed as it was so hot in the kids room. Basically I screwed up his bedtime routine and he screamed bloody murder when I finally put him down. I ended up going back and fed him to sleep as he was completely hysterical. Still managed a good night with his usual 2 feeds... lesson learnt though, it was horrible.

Original poster

TookyClothespin · 19/04/2018 12:22

Been doing the pantley pull off. Seems to be working. Actually got her down for a nap yesterday with no BF at all! And then teething started again and she was up all last night. Oh well. Even with teething, each wake up she had a feed then pulled herself off before falling asleep. Keep going I suppose.

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