5 month old not sleeping through - any ideas

[JillyWells]

Baby was born healthy but small at 4lb 7oz. Everything is fine except hoping he would sleep through by now. He nods off about 8-9pm, wakes up to feed about 10pm then goes through till anything between 12.30 and 4 am. Can't seem to get it to be consistently 4am which I could live with for a while. He drinks about 5oz at this point.

He is my first born and I am expecting again (they will be about 11 months apart)

Is there something else I could do or I doing something wrong. Note he is still 12lb14.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Yikes. It's so hard when mum's are so mean to each other on the sleep board. We really are all trying to do our best, but sleep does bring about a lot of emotive responses.

Having spoken to various baby experts (sleep expert, my GP, HV) I think the general feeling nowadays is that there is a huge misunderstanding of baby sleep. Parents have high expectations (too high) of how and when baby should be sleeping through.

I also think bottle fed and breastfed babies differ in these situations. Breastfed babies do need to eat little and often, and bottlefed babies can obviously go a lot longer. But I'd expect at least one bottle feed in the night.

I personally (note personally! Not judging anyone else!) won't feel comfortable cutting out night feeds until my baby is reliably on 3 solid meals and snacks a day but even then I plan to go with the flow. So much growing happens in the first year.

Unfortunately what can very easily happen is a vicious cycle whereby a baby is being fed to sleep every 45 mins all night long, and so doesn't eat solids properly in the day...and so the mother feels that she needs to keep up night feeding on demand to ensure the baby is getting enough nutrition. This can go on for months and months until the baby is 14 to 18 months old and still not eating solids properly. I know this because I see it amongst my friends and on this board and the Feed the World one.
This is exacerbated by the 'food is for fun until one' contingent, the 'cosleep and breastfeed to get most sleep for everyone' contingent and the baby being totally unable to settle itself without a boob.
Result is a tired cranky child who doesn't eat properly, and an overexhausted overwhelmed mother who hasn't slept for a year or longer.

@LapinR0se absolutely agree with you in some cases but I think it's generalising to say that about everyone. I feed my baby in the night - sometimes once, sometimes a few times and she goes back to sleep instantly and is always happy in the days. But I do definitely agree that for some people this doesn't work.

I guess you have to trust your child to guide you. I must admit a mum I know has spent a month cutting out night feeds with her 5 month old. This involves every night her baby sobbing for almost 2 hours in the middle of the night in hopes she will 'get the picture'. An entire month of this. Miserable for mum and baby alike. I would say in this situation baby needs milk! If you can settle your stirring baby quickly in the night without a feed I would say that baby doesn't need the night feed. I really think each mum needs to judge by her baby alone.

Wow, so much judgement and sniping where there should be compassion and solidarity...

"If you can settle your stirring baby quickly in the night without a feed I would say that baby doesn't need the night feed."

Except that there is a fine line between Want and Need at this age.

Yes, baby wakes up hungry. That is because he is used to 2 AM and 4 AM as meal times, so he Wants milk. But does he Need milk twice a night? As in, physically, for his health and development?

The answer is No. You stop night feeds, there's some crying for a few nights (2-3, ime) and then his body adjusts to meal times not being in the middle of the night. He eats & drinks more in the day and sleeps all night.

Alternatively, you can allow people to guilt-trip you into waiting for the child to somehow change his own meal times, which can take a couple of years.

5 months feels a really tough time with broken nights. A lot of other mums will have babies sleeping through by then and it's tough comparing . Also the months of broken nights really catch up with you. I think you have to just go with it for a while though it's a good time to look at routines and bed times- once they've started weaning and are a bit older and bigger you can look into tackling night waking - personally 9 months was when I'd had enough and felt ready to tackle sleep - but I wouldn't yet 5 months is young

@CoteDAzur everything you've just said is in your experience/your opinion only so saying flat out the answer is 'no' is misleading.

My 5 month old is exactly the same sleep wise - I think it's good to be honest and am happy with it!

You sleep trained your baby at 8 weeks?

I was in the process of sleep training. In fact, I started earlier. The first step in what I consider sleep training is the introduction of a bedtime routine and I did it when DD was 2 weeks old. We put sleep on hold when DD started showing reflux symptoms (first things first) but once it got sorted I resumed my "mission impossible" (i.e. sleep training a baby starting from 8 weeks with minimal tears and - this part was a bit stupid, I admit - not using a dummy).

As I mentioned, I had a maternity nurse who dealt with over 150 babies over the course of her career (and who also has 4 children and 6 grandchildren of her own). She told me she can pretty much "guarantee" she can teach any baby born full term and weighing more than 12lb to sleep for at least 10.5 hours during the night (with one dream feed). Her sleep training did not require leaving the baby to cry (although there may be tears when you are settling the baby for the night) and she (and most other experienced maternity nurses) can do it for both breastfed and formula fed babies. Unfortunately, I could not afford to have her helping me for 12 weeks so I took note of her tips and decided to do it with the help of DH. I ignored one single piece of advice - she told me my life would be much easier if I used a dummy. I did not. I did make things much more difficult for myself.

In retrospect, I can see if I had left sleep training till later it would have probably made my life harder. My DD is a loud, strong-willed and stubborn girl. She doesn't like when we move her around and she is very vocal when she is not happy. However she managed to pick up good sleep habits at the newborn stage - she loves her sleep, she doesn't want milk or water during the night, she lets me know when she is tired and she smiles whenever I put her into the sleeping bag at the end of the day.

I may be missing on 3am cuddles but I think getting decent night sleep is a fair trade.

One edit to the above - my maternity nurse told me she can pretty much "guarantee" she can teach any baby born full term and weighing more than 12lb to sleep for at least 10.5 hours during the night (with one dream feed) by 12 weeks.

That seems about normal. My baby is 6 months he goes down 8-9 and he wakes up about 1 for an hour or more and then again 3/4 for a bottle and then again at 5.30/6 until his nap in the afternoon. 😩

I have actually found it easier to teach myself not to get too hung up on sleep and sleep training than anything else!

I was stressed with my first child because I tried to over manage everything. This baby I am more relaxed (up just as much in the night) have managed my own expectations down and I think I need less sleep now than I used to. I have also changed my lifestyle to go to bed earlier and try to be as healthy as possible to combat.

My first slept through the night on her own accord at 14 months. I genuinely don't think anything I tried to 'do' made any difference!

Just my take! X

I'm amazed people think all babies should sleep through at a few weeks/months old.

@Oly5 there are still so many misunderstandings about normal infant sleep.

"@CoteDAzur everything you've just said is in your experience/your opinion only so saying flat out the answer is 'no' is misleading."

No, it's not. I'm not talking about only my experience when I say a normal 4 month old baby doesn't physically need to feed through the night to survive and thrive.

Everything else is theoretical guilt-tripping. The baby doesn't actually physically need it, but wants it because that's all he's ever known - milk flows at 2 AM and 4 AM. It always has since the day I was born so I want it tonight, too. Baby wants it and we are told by some that we have to provide it for as long as baby wants it.

No, we don't. We can give the baby different habits, such as feeding more in the day and sleeping all night, so that us parents can also function as human beings.

I'm amazed people think all babies should sleep through at a few weeks/months old.

I do not think this is what CoteDAzur or I are saying. There are two differences: (1) should vs can and (2) sleeping through vs not needing feeding during the night (say - between 11pm and 6am).

OP has asked if anything can be done to get her baby to sleep through and not to wake up for feeds. The answer here is yes. It will take time and it will require some work but there is no reason why her DS (weighing over 12lb at 5 months) cannot increase his daily milk intake and drop middle of the night feeds. He may still have to maintain a dream feed (my DD is on solids and hasn't dropped it yet) but 11pm to 6am should (eventually) be doable.

Of course, there will always be parents who do not mind night wakings and who are happy to feed during the night. However, it is usually a question of personal choice and providing comfort rather than baby's physical need for food. As a result, comments "it is normal, just hang in there, my baby still feeds every one - two - three hours at 10-11-12 months" are not very helpful. It may work for some parents but it is not the only version of the world.

FWIW, my biggest challenge was not around getting DD not to be hungry at night. She stopped expecting night milk pretty quickly but she still woke up and wanted comforting (shushing/patting/cuddling) until she found her own way of settling to sleep.

Elegantly put @wintertravel1980 - these things are all a matter of opinion and what you're willing to cope with. Managing to sleep train a baby to stop night feeds doesn't mean waking for night feeds still at 10/11/12 months isn't normal though x

Nobody said it's abnormal for babies to wake up in the night.

What we are saying is that:

• it's habit that can be changed
• it's a Want rather than a physical Need
• babies are not "damaged" when night feeds are stopped

Shushing and patting the baby several times a night between week 8 and week 10 was not fun

Bet it was a barrel of laughs for the baby as well. I have no idea how you didn't give in and feed your baby when so tiny.